"One Man Show"
After coming to the “Heart of the Matter” over the last 6 mos., I hope you have been blessed and encouraged in your journey forward. As I’ve said before, it’s “AS you move forward” that the Holy Spirit brings clarity and purpose to your season of transition. And now the time has come for us to bring you to the final chapter… what I’m about to share with you IS the sobering truth behind Cornerstone. It’s what all former members discover after leaving. It’s the “Crux of the Matter”… that answers the question of “What’s Next?”
With almost 7 billion people living on the planet, what is the value of… ONE LIFE? How much is ONE PURPOSE worth? The answer of course depends upon who you are asking. To that ONE PERSON… the answer would be INVALUABLE. And so to each man is given ONE life. We must enjoy it, value it… because “this IS it”. For the years of a man’s life are like grains of sand. They pass through your fingers ever so quickly, no matter how hard you try to hold on.
Acts 17: 26, 27 --“From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and HE DETERMINED THE TIMES SET FOR THEM and the EXACT PLACES WHERE THEY SHOULD LIVE. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.”
What a powerful scripture that testifies to the brilliant plan of predetermining the “set times and places” of every man that is to step foot on the planet. As believers in Christ, we know that each person is born with a divine purpose --a REASON for living in the “time” and “place” they were born into “for such a time as this”. And with every life is also appointed a number of years in which to carry those purposes out. To everything there is a season, and a TIME to every purpose under the heaven…
Along with PURPOSE and TIME, each man is also endowed with ABILITY -spiritual and natural GIFTS that were intended to be used to bring glory to God in the Earth. The greatest demonstration of a person fulfilling their purpose is given to us in John 17:4 --“I have brought you glory on Earth by completing the work you have given me to do.”
-Jesus
-Jesus
I believe all of us would agree to this:
As Christians, we have a personal responsibility to fulfill the Call of God upon our lives. Each of us will stand before God and give an account for what we did with the TIME & TALENT we were given. No one will be standing with you on that day. Not your Pastor, your Parents, nor your Peers.
Allow me to get right to the point. As much as I hate to disappoint the critics, this is not going to be a final “explosive article” aimed to “blast” everyone away by finally revealing all the shocking “inside” information that we have. Nor will this article be for the purpose of revealing the future “outcome” of the whole situation. The truth of the matter is… the future “outcome” is fully realized by EVERYONE after they leave. The “truth of the outcome” was there all the time… but often ignored, put off, or set aside. And THAT TRUTH will do you far more “good” than the discovery of anything else. What am I saying?
Here is the CRUX:
Contrary to sharia law of Cornerstone, Michael Pitts was never the Gatekeeper of your Calling. Nor was he responsible for the fulfillment thereof. But at some point, we bought into that system of thinking through very persuasive indoctrination. We were apart of what became a cult in part, by the false teachings that stemmed mainly out of the "Shepherding Movement”.
In a nut shell --we were taught that God calls us to serve a particular Pastor, where we are to submit to him indefinitely by coming into a “covenant relationship” and in return…. we are provided Spiritual “Covering” under the umbrella of his network. It is through our submission to the “Bishop”, that we ultimately go on to fulfill our Calling, our Purpose. And so it goes... one could never leave their “Covering” unless of course the anointing of "Proper Protocol” is followed -aka- “They release you”. For all intents and purposes, we were REQUIRED to give the “Set Man” of the house…. complete and total submission without question. Reminds me of the song “Hotel California” --you can “check out” anytime you like, but you can NEVER LEAVE…Eph. 4:11, 12 –“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, FOR THE EQUIPPING OF THE SAINTS FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, for the edifying of the body of Christ..”
Now according to the above scripture,
we clearly see that 5-fold Ministry Gifts are for…
What? Equipping
Who? The Saints
Purpose? For the Work of the Ministry
How is this whittled down to: "Feel your Faith, Find your PLACE... Heal the World?"
How is this whittled down to: "Feel your Faith, Find your PLACE... Heal the World?"
Hmmm... It's "catchy", but is it equipping THE SAINTS so that THEY can GO OUT into the world and do the work of ministry? Oh, that's right... We ARE doing the work of the "ministry" by $upporting and attending. Really?? But is this the "work" that Paul was talking about?
It would appear that in a "One Man Show" or "Personality-Driven" church, the mentality and structure is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE of Ephesians 4. You are instructed to find yourseat place and "submit yourself to CHRIST headship". Then give your time, service, and gifts and lay them at the feet of CHRIST the "Set Man of the House" so HE can fulfill HIS calling. Your calling is now his calling. But according to scripture -it's the other way around! It's the Pastor's duty to lay down his life, serve, and equip YOU for the work of the ministry. THAT IS HIS MINISTRY!
At the end of the day, our Charismatic Churches have become more "Man-Centered" than they are Christ-Centered. End of story.
Not to knock off your "Kingdom Authority" buzz but...
The superstar mentality intoday has caused us to elevate gifted individuals to the forefront of ministry. Instead of equipping others, such leaders and ministers really only strengthen their own positions of power and ministry in the Body. As a result, the life of the congregation is then primarily focused on and revolved around the Pastor/Bishop. They don't have a "life", they have "his life". Consequently, ministry ends up primarily directed INWARD instead of OUTWARD. America
It would appear that in a "One Man Show" or "Personality-Driven" church, the mentality and structure is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE of Ephesians 4. You are instructed to find your
At the end of the day, our Charismatic Churches have become more "Man-Centered" than they are Christ-Centered. End of story.
Not to knock off your "Kingdom Authority" buzz but...
It has nothing to do with titles, positions, or education. It is granted by the Lord according to the measure in which he can trust us to wield it with humility. It is reserved for his bondslaves.
Just to clarify:
As I stated earlier, everyone has a Purpose… a “Call” on their life. And certainly God places 5-Fold Ministry relationships in the Body to equip and edify us for those purposes. Absolutely! THE PROBLEM is when those leaders set themselves up to usurp the role of Christ in our life. A genuine Pastor (who has the heart of a shepherd) will serve his people for the purpose of caring FOR and equipping THEM. So yes, on one hand he IS responsible for what he teaches and how he shepherds while he is assigned to our care. HOWEVER, it is OUR responsibility to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying over OUR LIFE and obey -by following that Path and Plan accordingly. Which btw, does not always begin and end with one particular church.
Friends, much of what we’ve endured could have been avoided IF we took what we were being taught, sat down at our kitchen table and compared it with scripture. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God... THESE are the SONS of God." NOT –Sons and Daughters “of the house”. Such philosophy is synonymous with the arrogance of a Narcissistic Personality to say the least…
A note on “Covering”:
Friends, much of what we’ve endured could have been avoided IF we took what we were being taught, sat down at our kitchen table and compared it with scripture. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God... THESE are the SONS of God." NOT –Sons and Daughters “of the house”. Such philosophy is synonymous with the arrogance of a Narcissistic Personality to say the least…
A note on “Covering”:
IF a Pastor/Bishop COULD provide his members with “Spiritual Covering”, then your continual ability to be “covered” would remain contingent upon his current level of submission to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Agree? So what happens if let’s say he “falls asleep” on the job and is no longer in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, as far as his own personal relationship with Christ? Being now that you have placed him as your mediator to Christ for blessing, protection, etc… then are you no longer covered? Friends, this doesn’t make sense because it’s FALSE DOCTRINE.
For the sake of those still trying to “sort it out”:
I have always felt that we should be able to learn from “what went wrong” while still giving credit where credit is due. For up & down the hallways of 1520 Reynolds Rd., walked 1000’s of gifted men and women of God over the last 25 years. In my humble opinion, I truly believe Cornerstone was intended to be a powerful “Pitt Stop” for many. In part, a place to be developed for a season and then sent out to begin new works of ministry. In the end, it turned into a deep pitt controlled under the guise of members remaining “in decency and in order”… all by two men who forgot where they came from. At the end of the day, what will be remembered the most is what was promoted and worshipped the most by everyone --His Gift. Was anyone able to get past the "brightness" of the stage, to see that something was terribly wrong? That's my observation for whatever it's worth. Nevertheless, we can still glean from the day when the Word of God was preached in a way that transcended all economical, social, and cultural backgrounds.
Unfortunately, false doctrine and spiritual abuse set her fangs in… our “beloved” became paralyzed and many fell asleep under her spell… all while clinging onto memories of past grandeur. You can shout and buck all you want, but if God removes His Spirit... it's nothing more than empty hands on empty heads -an expensive floor show at best. But as we’ve said before, there WILL BE much good that comes from your season at Cornerstone… you just have to take TRUTH with you and leave the rest behind. For those invaluable “lessons learned” were divinely given to you by the sovereign hand of God –for your good.
Unfortunately, false doctrine and spiritual abuse set her fangs in… our “beloved” became paralyzed and many fell asleep under her spell… all while clinging onto memories of past grandeur. You can shout and buck all you want, but if God removes His Spirit... it's nothing more than empty hands on empty heads -an expensive floor show at best. But as we’ve said before, there WILL BE much good that comes from your season at Cornerstone… you just have to take TRUTH with you and leave the rest behind. For those invaluable “lessons learned” were divinely given to you by the sovereign hand of God –for your good.
I remember “fire ball” Pastor Jim Hart once said, “You wanna know when it’s time for you to be released from your Pastor? When you’ve wrung him dry and there’s nothing more to receive from him.” I concur. Regardless of what's "said" over the platform, everyone knows that long-time, dedicated members never ran around "promoting" an agenda. Even for those who had 5-Fold ministry callings, it was abundantly clear that no real "Pathway to the Priesthood" ever existed. Those who were mature, knew that promotion comes from the Lord regardless -in His timing. So, when the day came for you to leave… it was because LEAVING was necessary for your future. In the meantime of course, we were trained to keep jumping through all the right hoops... and one day (IF DEEMED "READY")... we will let you do something GREAT to further His
So --“What’s Next?"
As you come to the end of the healing process, you will come to the beginning of a NEW “ERA” in your Christian life. Eras not only “birth” something new, but they also reckon past accounts. You will begin to see life as more of an “Open Road”. You will begin to see that your church relationships are more of “vehicles” rather than “destinations”. You will begin to realize that the decision itself to "leave Cornerstone" was really JUST THE BEGINNING of something much greater! Kind of like getting on a motorcycle and heading out onto the Open Road. What a breath of fresh air! And you WILL find that “leaving” itself, was really just the FIRST step toward discovering the “What’s Next?” that God had been planning for YOU all along... Are you brave enough to embrace it?I have found that even through my own personal difficulty in leaving -dealing with the disappointment, the loss, even filtering through the "ugliness" of spiritual abuse and false doctrine... was WORTH every moment of my wilderness season! The stripping process itself is never pretty, but I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.... IT has made me a better person. You see, once you trust Him by fully surrendering to the PROCESS... you will discover how necessary ALL OF IT was in the preparation of God’s Plan for your life! It's funny that the #1 "villainizing label" given to discredit the mass exodus was -"they didn't get released for ministry". How ironic... for these very ones went onto finding the path of fulfilling JUST THAT! They went on to live out their LIFE! Why?? Because the Holy Spirit released them to. What a concept! You see, your departure from Cornerstone was actually an unforeseen promotion brought to you by the Lord Himself… but what YOU do with that journey forward will be up to YOU. Selah
As I asked in the beginning of the article... What is ONE LIFE worth among almost 7 billion others?? EVERYTHING. If it is yours of course. You get ONE life and we should be careful how we spend the years within it. Never ASSUME that the VALUE of your purpose, time, and ability is equally appreciated by those who currently need you. I call this the “sin of assumption”… for we are often quick to assume when we want something to be true. Sometimes our love for others blinds us from accepting the TRUTH. And sometimes the ability to PERSEVERE for them, causes us short sightedness too...
I would like to think that Michael and Robert realize the YEARS that have been given to their account. One may never know. I would like to think that those who were grouped into "less significant" cliques…were just as important too. For those who were never “privileged” to have keys, to those who never “fit in”, and to ALL who came and served years of their life tithing, teaching, and trusting.... this is a small token of gratitude for you. This is for those who spent PRECIOUS YEARS giving to the “vision” of Cornerstone… while raising their families and unselfishly supporting someone else’s dream (in faith) that theirs would one day come true also. The lives YOU TOUCHED over the years will remain long after "It is Finished".
And finally....
A man once told me that he was standing on top of a building looking out over downtown Toledo. Suddenly, God supernaturally opened his ears and he could hear demonic forces wreaking great havoc over the city. The Lord immediately spoke to him and said, “I have no one in this city that has the authority or power to come against them.” --I didn’t understand this at the time considering. Now after several years, perhaps I am just beginning to see the “bigger picture” of what he was trying to tell me...
And finally....
A man once told me that he was standing on top of a building looking out over downtown Toledo. Suddenly, God supernaturally opened his ears and he could hear demonic forces wreaking great havoc over the city. The Lord immediately spoke to him and said, “I have no one in this city that has the authority or power to come against them.” --I didn’t understand this at the time considering. Now after several years, perhaps I am just beginning to see the “bigger picture” of what he was trying to tell me...
A “One Man Show" will never be able to turn a city upside down for Christ, much less “Heal the World”. Why? Because Apostolic Power & Authority is not something that’s simply “decreed”, but demonstrated in love. TRUE Power and Authority in the Body of Christ only comes when we are UNIFIED. And UNITY will not come until EACH PART of the Body is equally strengthened and deployed to a world in need. To bring Glory to our King.
"You will find that LIFE after Cornerstone is nothing they said it would be, and everything HE has said --SHALL BE."
an important piece of information in accordance with this article is in this reading:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.docstoc.com/docs/18570284/Shepherds-on-the-Hills-of-Bible-History
This is a very insightful post. Wow! This is going to really help some people here.
ReplyDeleteAmen and well said! Remember the covering only works as long as your obedient and keep the money flowing...lol! I faithfully attended CS for years and was never sicker or faced more temptation in my entire life. You can keep that covering all you want! Anyone who tells you that the Holy Spirit isn't your covering is a liar and a thief, the Word tells us so.
ReplyDeleteAs for MP/RP, I would examine their fruit. These men are lovers of their own selves - unthankful and proud - blasphemers,disobedient boasters - unholy and loud. Lets examine their fruit to the Word of God, and then we will find out who the liars are. So go ahead and wear your big ring, robe and crown BISHOP NOTHING and I'll take JESUS as my covering anyday! It is amazing to me how God's word can not return void, but those who pretend to preach it are nothing but that.
17If anyone [d]does hurt to God's temple or corrupts it [[e]with false doctrines] or destroys it, God will [f]do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy (sacred to Him) and that [temple] you [[g]the believing church and its individual believers] are. (1 Corinthians 3:17 AMP)
It's pretty simple. If these guys really believed that sowing money seeds to release the word worked, not to mention getting a return of 30 60 100 fold, pressed down shaken together and running over, then WHY AREN'T THEY GIVING ALL THEIR MONEY AWAY?
ReplyDeleteWith that type of return, Warren Buffet and Goldman Sachs would be on board like yesterday.
If all these guys believed this then they wouldn't need to ask you for money. They could sell all the RE holdings and God knows what else and take that money and sow it INTO YOUR LIFE.
It's a sham folks. Unfortunately, we all got hoodwinked. Liar Liar.
The following comment was asked to be published. Can a MARRIED couple offer some insight to "curious2" below:
ReplyDeleteComment submitted by "curious2":
"Also here's a question. What if the hs is speaking to one person but not their spouse about leaving? The spouse is so involved. He just can't hear it. What do other people do?"
MP is preaching right now ... interesting ... he just said "big" people can be around lots of folks (like Jesus). He said you are NOT transformed if you can be around less and less people. HOW CAN HE SAY THIS WITH CREDIBILITY when almost all he preaches is to get away from people that disagree with you, are not "with" you, don't share your vision, are not under covering, are "disrespectful" (meaning disagree with him), etc . . . . Height of hypocrasy.
ReplyDeleteThere have been noted times when RP has talked to individuals without spouses. There were times when talking about certain subjects RP has said, "You don't have to tell your wife about this..."
ReplyDeleteFirst ask yourself, "What CAN you do?" Is your spouse willing to meet all together? If you do not want to, is your spouse willing to stop seeing/listening to HS.
This particular issue does not seem to be about CStone - CStone is the catalyst and conductor.
I was the one in my marriage who was slow to hear. My wife didn't try to be the Holy Spirit. She let God work on me. As the marriage covenant makes 2 into 1, when God is working in one, he is working in both. We left together, though she was ready to leave long before me.
ReplyDeleteI have spoken with several married individuals in your exact situation. They felt like they were dying. All but one, left and let their spouse hang behind. For most of the people I have talked to, the second spouse follows soon after. For one couple, the remaining spouse refuses to leave. The marriage is strained. The spouse who left is spiritually healthy and the one still in the cult is not. For another couple, the husband stayed behind for months after his wife left. He needed some form of closure. Finally he was tired of the slanderous messages directed at people like his wife and he left. He knew his wife was prospering, healthy and happy. He saw the fruit and recognized the lie from the pulpit.
If I were in your situation, I do not know what I would do. Certainly pray for your spouse, but don't try to speak for God. Let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit, without your intervention. Do pray that God leads people across your spouse's path that will help him see freedom. Also, feed yourself from other sources, like TV, online, reading. Build friendships or join groups of believers outside of the cult. Pray and ask God and he will speak to you. I know that for sure. I will pray for you. Don't lose hope. Know that better days are on their way. You can't imagine the freedom and the wonderful marriage that is right around the corner for you!!!
To Love Villain-
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your words. It is encouraging to hear that other married couples have gone through this and came out of it. I guess it makes sense that one of the couple hears from the holy spirit first. I am praying and thank you for your prayers. His worries about leaving stem from his thinking that he will have to jump through hoops somewhere else for years and years before he can serve as God has intended him to serve... using his gifts.
I know that other churches welcome those who have experience and knowledge and are willing and ready to share and serve for the church.... he just doesn't know bc we have been at cstone for so long. thanks again.
Curious2,
ReplyDeleteYes, the fear of the unknown is difficult. I know, I was at CStone for nearly 20 years & leaving wasn't easy, but I knew I had to for so many reasons. It was a big adjustment to be sure, but if your husband has a call of God on his life, God knows what it is & where & how he can use him & it will not be limited to CStone. Ultimately his gift is for use in the Body of Christ as a whole. He is a member of the Body of Christ as we all are. Cornerstone Church is not the fulfillment of all that God has for us or His Body of believers.
Other churches can and will use your husband's gifts & you may find that it is much easier to do than you think.
However, my recommendation if & when you leave is to be still & know that He is God & allow yourselves time to adjust. Reacquaint yourself with the pure Word of God. The trap & trick of the enemy when you leave will be to bring guilt & make you feel as if you have done something wrong or as if there is something wrong with you. But it is all lies & you have to remember that.
Your mind will make you think you are going crazy at first as you go back & forth wondering if you should go back, did you do the right thing etc. This is normal. So are the emotional ups & downs you will experience.
Once you are free & begin to see the false doctrine for what it is, you will be angry. You will ask yourself why couldn't I have seen that or why didn't I leave sooner? You will eventually realize that you have been in a cult-like church for all intents & purposes. But, God will see you through. There will be much sorting out of doctrine & then come the, "How could they do this?" questioning. But again, God is faithful & He will make a way for you. That is why this blog has been a godsend. It is a place of support, a place of truth, a place to find a voice after leaving, & a place to find help, hope, & healing.
Once you get through all of the initial mental & emotional shock, you can then begin to find a new church home. However, I would visit at least 4 Sundays in a row to get a feel for the church & don't get involved right away. Give yourself time to settle in & allow yourself to be fed by the pure Word in a pure spiritual atmosphere free of control, manipulation, & sermons filled with hidden agendas from a man with an "axe to grind".
There are some very good & solid churches in the area: Calvary Assembly of God, Church on Strayer, the Vineyard in Perrysburg, Father's House & yes, dare I say it, Cedar Creek. I know that the "US vs. Them" preaching at Cornerstone teaches that these churches are all religious & seeker friendly & don't move by the Spirit, but that is just not true. They may not be as show driven as Michael Pitts & Cornerstone, but they are solid churches who are accountable to their memebers, who have relationships with their members, who also have a true heart for people who are lost & in need.
I hope that helps. Be patient. You may have to leave first & your husband amy follow later. I think his priorities need to be God first, family 2nd & Cornerstone 3rd. If it is Michael & Cornerstone first, then that ought to tell you a whole lot. And don't let the use of his gift & what God wants him to do at Cornerstone disguise what the real heart of the matter is. At the end of the day, Michael Pitts & Cornerstone are no one's Lord & Saviour. It is God who you will give account to in the end. Jesus is the one who died for us, and is where the focus should be with who you follow.
We will keep you in our prayers.
THE FOLLOWING COMMENT IS FROM "Curious2":
ReplyDelete-----------------
To Just Sayin'
thanks so much for your prayers. I was wondering if it's alright to talk with others while going through this. You can hear from the holy spirit, but I know that he also works through others that are placed in your path. I know how my spirit feels when I go there.. I know that we are being lead to go somewhere else but I don't know much about the false teachings. Do I need to learn about this so I know what is not right.... to correct things that we and possibly our children have been taught ?
Thanks for the church suggestions. Do you know anything about Crossroads on 23 near Bedford? It's on the church suggestion list... just wondering if there are any ex cornerstone people attending there.....
Curious2,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely yes talk to others. That is what helped me the most. I met with Rich Maus & his wife and another former member. Once I talked to Rich things made so much sense to me. It is a necessity to talk to others who have walked this road out of Cornerstone, and ask questions as well.
Second, you will with time discover what the wrong doctrine is. My suggestion is to go to the top of this blog on the right & read some of the articles in the NEW LINK - A Must Read for Everyone. Start with article XVIII. See what you think & see if you pick up on any doctrinal error & beliefs. The person who wrote those articles was in a very cult-like church with extreme heavy-shepherding going on & a lot of false doctrine. The articles are a good place to start. Take your time with them, take notes. Allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you as you read them & show you some of the wrong doctrine you have been caught up in at Cornerstone.
Third, yes, Crossroads is a very good church. I know several people who go there, not necessarily from Cornerstone, although I know they are out there as it seems Penny has said so. I have heard it has excellent teaching, music & children's ministry and the pastor is a very personable man who you can personally get to know.
Finally, be patient with this process. I wouldn't try to fix everything all at once. One of the biggest false doctrines of Cornerstone is their endtime theology. I can't say that I have it all sorted out, but I know that christians are not going to take dominion of this earth before Jesus returns nor are we going to hand a perfected kingdom over to Him when he returns as Michael has eluded to. Read 1 Cor. 15:24 to see what it says about the kingdom in the end.
Also, the whole preaching of protocol anointings and levels is no where to be found in Scripture, chapter or verse.
I'll stop there for now. You will make it through this. Keep reading the articles and comments from this blog even the older posts from months back. Talk things out & keep asking questions.
I am praying for you as are others. I pray that God gives you peace as you move forward in Him.
The following comment is to Penny from Curious2:
ReplyDelete----------
To Penny
Thanks so much for your input about crossroads. Do you attend there often? Is the pastor recovering for a past church experience. I read that he pastored up in canada for 15 yrs before this church. Is he approachable? Someone you could actually get to know alittle? That seems foreign to me. I have watched him preach online and I am excited to actually set foot in the building sometime in the near future... with prayers
from curious2
Since leaving, I am looking for a church that has a pastor that doesn't try to be Mr. Charisma...Doesn't say..." you're not hearing me "
ReplyDeleteand make jokes about people who are fat, deaf or gay. I try to listen for words in the message like "love" "forgiveness" "the blood of Jesus" and "redemption". Do you know the feeling your body gets when you haven't been eating very good? You start to crave a fresh, green wonderful salad...ripe, juicy fruits. That's how I feel. Malnourished. I feel duped, hoodwinked and starved.
I feel angry that I was too much of a wuss to tell people after I left how I really felt when they told me they can't be in my company anymore. I feel like how it feels when you are an abused wife....
But,I chalk this one up to a great experience and lesson learned. Life is full of these sorts of opportunities I suppose.
I will say to the ones reading this who are only logging on to get some good fodder for their next FB post and/or sermon....
Deep down, if there is still a shred of sense left in you...you know it's wrong to tell people who they can or cannot talk to. You know that's just plain weird right? You know that hurts people right? I have earned a new name in this process. Send your reply to:
Helen Back
and another thing...regarding the us vs. them mentality at cstone. I think that is a horrible thing to do to people. We are supposed to be drawing people into the kingdom. To badmouth another church that teaches God's word and reaches out to people and is making a difference in people's lives is plain sad. I know so many people that go to Cedar Creek who have been blessed and changed in such a positive way. They needed a church like that;one they felt welcome in. My goodness...the term "seeker friendly" to me is NOT negative. I am seeking...and I hope if I come to your church you're friendly.
ReplyDeleteSo....to everyone.. I guess it's safe to say that if/when we leave, we will be talked about in a bad way and people will be instructed not to talk with us anymore??? Do we bother trying to meet with someone for an exit meeting?
ReplyDeletePenny, that is really cool about receiving a note detailing where your money went. Again, a foreign concept. And as for name dropping.... I'm wondering where everyone else went... what church, etc.. too bad we can't have an open forum somewhere to just ask about certain people who are not around anymore.
Curious2,
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion and experience, the best way to leave this place is to walk out the door and never come back or look back. Pull a Lot...
If they slander and lie on people that have been leaders and slaves to their circus for 25 years and not even talk to them anymore, what do you think they will do to you? MP and RP will get your letter and sit in their plush offices and laugh about it. You want an appointment? Yea, right? They will send you to DB to do the dirty work. I have NEVER met a person in that place who was given a loving and Christlike blessing to move on to another place to do what they felt God was leading them to do. They are full of pride, arrogance, and lovers of themselves. MP thinks more highly of himself than he ought...
Again, do what you want, but you are more than likely going to see they could care less...
Their thinking....Next....
Curious2,
ReplyDeleteI would definitely not suggest an exit meeting. I did not have one - what was the point?? Unless you care to be humiliated and shamed, I would leave as quietly & quickly as you can & let them figure it out.
The headship of Cornerstone does not acknowledge or agree with those who left for right reasons. In fact they can be down right nasty and mean - bullies comes to mind. Look what they did to Rich Maus. He was not even extended the courtesy to say good-bye to the children or their parents. And his exit meeting was basically made to make him feel well, less than and humiliated. After all of the years Michael complimented Rich on a world class children's ministry, he didn't let anyone know he was leaving because God was calling him in another direction. That simply angered Michael & Robert - no Christ-like love or friendliness there. Just a lot of selfishness & hard feelings because it upset their little agenda.
So Curious2, take your family & leave quietly with what dignity and sanity you have left and don't look back because at the end of the day, Michael and the others really don't have your best interest at heart.
Good luck and may God's peace & strength be with you & your family.
Helen Back,
ReplyDeleteLove your play on words:)
Just want you to know we love you and I am so glad that there are seeker FRIENDLY churches who preach, teach and show the true love of Jesus to others.
I have heard nothing but good things about Cedar Creek unless it comes from Michael Pitts's mouth. Perhaps he is jealous they are reaching so many with the love of Christ.
You hit the nail on the head when you said what words you listen for in a new church - love, forgiveness, the blood of Jesus & redemption. Those are words seldom uttered at CStone by Michael or anyone else who preaches there.
I remember the first time I went to the Church on Strayer and they were singing a worship song about the blood of Jesus & I just sobbed because it had been so long since I had heard anything about the blood of Jesus at Cornerstone. My spirit was so dry & thirsty and just the mere mention of the blood of Jesus touched my heart & spirit.
I suppose now that Michael and his cronies have read that, Michael will probably preach a sermon about that. He seems to be feeling some guilt about his apparent lack of biblical preaching and has recently been using the Bible to compliment his messages although he still finds a way to put his doctrinal spin on everything.
And for sure, Michael and others will use this forum to have fodder for their FB posts.
At least we are stirring them up to look at real truth.
Take care and keep reading and posting - it is healing.
@Helen Back - yes it is VERY common to feel like a victim of spousal abuse when you leave. Divorce like feelings also are frequent. It's an unhealthy, abusive setup at cstone, so those feelings are very natural.
ReplyDelete@Curious2 - I advise against the exit meeting. How can you have an exit meeting with people who believe that if you wander into the church, God has lead you to your pastor. People who think that they alone will know if God has told you to leave, cannot be trusted to execute a proper exit meeting. Think of your leaving cstone as a "hello" meeting with the Holy Spirit and don't worry about the past. Person after person can tell you the exit meeting is harmful, if not downright dangerous. Many people I have spoken to, have been verbally abused. I myself was yelled at, lie to, and then slandered from the pulpit within a half hour. No one needs that. Just leave and thank God for him loving you enough to speak to you.
Regarding "exit interviews". It could be very interesting if you so choose and if you are allowed one. Before we (my then husband and I)decided to leave cstone we thought we just wanted to leave the ministry we were involved in. We were asked by RP to come and discuss it. But when we got in his office it was not a talk about that he was interested in. He wanted to spew his thoughts on our friends the Marinez family.
ReplyDeleteMost likely David Banks will be asked to sit in as well. When we had our experience, Pastor Banks basically just sat there with an "I'm sorry" look on his face while RP bombarded us with accusations and lies about the Martinez family whom we had a friendship with. We were told that we could not communicate with them anymore if we wanted to continue to be a part of Cstone. At that moment every youth meeting lesson about cults came rushing back to my rememberance. I heard the wise words of former pastors and leaders warning about what was happening to me at that moment. I knew right then and there that I could not be a part of that. RP had a combative attitude. If I hadn't been there I am afraid things may have even gotten physical. I was shocked. The arrogance was UNBELIEVABLE. Pastor Banks whispered in my ear on the way out "I'm sorry Sis".....
I think it was the following Sunday that I made the exit I spoke of in an earlier post.
Later after my husband and I divorced, I was contacted. I was welcomed back to Cstone but when I mentioned that I was in communication still with Sis. Martinez, I was told " we will have to talk about that if I continue to decide to be her friend"
Well as you can imagine, I thought "phooey to that...forget you" and just never returned.
I have attended Cedar Creek and like it very much. The people there love God SO MUCH! They are doing much outreach to the community, which is really where my heart lies. I may be relocating soon and I will plan on going to Dayspring in Bowling Green I think.
I love God so much. I am thankful that even through all of this, I still feel like I am covered and safe..."engraved on the palm of his hand". I love the words from " Before the Throne of God Above"
Before the throne of God above
I have a strong and perfect plea
A great High Priest whose name is love
Who ever lives and pleads for me
My name is graven on His hands
My name is written on His heart
I know that while in heaven He stands
No tongue can bid me thence depart
No tongue can bid me thence depart
I am still amazed that Robert Pitts has the title pastor attached to his name. He is by no means a pastor nor does his demeanor or character represent that title.
ReplyDeleteHe is arrogant and unfit to be called a pastor of any kind. He loves himself and has no heart for people who are huting and in need.
Maybe he was high on something when he had those exit interviews where he felt like the great & powerful Oz who could stand there roaring at stupid little sheep. And as much as I liked David Banks, shame on him for supporting such bully-like behavior. I have no idea why he doesn't pack up & leave as well. He knows full well the kind of men he is working for - greedy CEO's, not men of God who have a heart for people and what God has called them to do.
Please, please Curious2, just leave free of guilt and shame and don't look back. There is no reason to have an exit meeting. There won't be any warm fuzzies or well wishes. And furthermore, only playground bullies tell you who you can or can't talk to or play with.
Michael and Robert are real life bullies behind closed doors. Perhaps that is why they are in need of substances and other addictions to soothe their consciences.
Well, their charade has been exposed just like the great Oz's was. And really what you have are 2 "small" men who prey on people in their weakest moments in life.
God have mercy on their souls.
I have not been in church for over 3 months and not one person, not any of my "friends", my Bishop or anyone has even noticed I have not been there. I have not gotten one phone call from anyone seeing if I am alright, if I am in trouble, ill or have died...How sad is that.
ReplyDeleteI know that when people I didnt even know but saw every week left, I noticed and would ask about them from those who did know... How sad to give your life to a place for over a decade and not even have left enough of a mark for it to be noticed when it is empty.
sad,
ReplyDeleteIt is sad. It also validates pretty much everything stated on this blog about C Stone. The reality is we were all a number, another revenue stream for the Pitts Brothers Kingdom Inc. When you leave they just look to recruit someone else to sucker into the Ponzi scheme. It's called the revolving door ministry. I could care less about what MP preaches about Love, he has NO demonstration of it whatsoever. He is a hypocrite and has sold out for money. I pray no one gives another dime to this place.
To "Sad",
ReplyDeleteYes, that's how it is there. But as you may recall, that type of attitude is considered to be a sign of Immaturity....and "soulical".
I'm sorry, Sad. :(
ReplyDeleteTo sad, that does make me sad too. I know when I leave, it will be the same way..
ReplyDeleteTo everyone: Here's a question, when you decided to leave, and you were involved in many ministries, how did you do it? When people start asking about next month or summer, etc..and you don't want to leave people hanging..what sentence do you say? "my family and I are feeling led to go to a dif. church?"
I attend Crossroads church and can say that the music is awesome too. And Pastor Dean has a heart of gold it is so obvious. He offers to his congregation an open door policy...he says he is at starbucks every morning by the mall at 7 am you are welcome to come visit with me. For having a 1500 plus congregation I feel that is a very warm, kind thing for him to do. He does not place himself above others. And the messages are really good. Alot of teaching about family and honesty.(being true to yourself) They turn the lights down during worship because they feel worship is personal. This gives you the opportunity to raise your hands if you want and feel confortable or the opposite if that best suits your worship style. Which I think keeps MY focus better on GOD rather than looking around at all the other saints in the service and the drama that comes with that. As far as the tithing thing goes. The document is to the TEE all the amounts you give. One week I tested it and put a $5 dollar bill in the plate (in envelope with name) and sure enough they recorded it. One of the most touching servies I have experienced is when he spoke of his wife....he cried out loud and said his wife is his strength, he called her Pammy (her name is Pam)This touched my heart to see a strong man (a man's man) cry and show his heart. I think it is the experiences like that which truly shows GODS love. This church has taught me to break the "IMAGE THING". It is hard for me to not deck out in clothes etc. This church has taught me that God sees you as you are and it isn't that important what you where to church as long as you come and fellowhip. This was hard for me I will admit!!!! Pastor Dean is still fairly new only a couple of years there but he is really interested in bringing in more races to the church. He has told the congregation this. He feels they need more blending there. He has even gone to the intercity Black churches and they have came to Crossroads to work together. On what both churches need to do to attract all races. I love that fact that he is honest about the weekness at the church and wants to change them. I notice more and more races are coming which is great step. But the bottom line is you need to find the church that is right for you for what you really need in a church. I want to feel like my pastor knows me and my life. This is present is here. You may want to listen to a service online. The service on Jan 16, 2011. was the week after we were given small white flags to put our issues we want to get rid off on the flags. This was a good service. www.crossroadson23.com
ReplyDeletewww.crossroads23.com
crossroads,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insightful comments. It is good to see that there are still pastors out there who are men of integrity who exhibit the love of God. I'd say you have found a church that has both a heart for people and for God and w/out ulterior motives.
When you have been in one church for so long and then you find out all of things that we have come to find out through our years at Cornerstone, it is hard to trust again and to believe that the pastors aren't just trying to use you for their gain. Hearing your testimony of a church Crossroads offers hope to those still seeking a church home.
Thanks again and blessings to all at Crossroads.
I hope someone can help me here. I have been reading this blog for a while now. I hve contemplated leaving Cornerstone for a while now. There are a lot of reasons why and I have been noticing the people who have been leaving one by one.
ReplyDeleteI really like Cornerstone and can't say that I find anything wrong with Bishop Michael's preaching. I read the comments a while back about the whole spirit trumping the letter thing and I guess I can see where he was off somewhat with the point he was trying to make. He did get a bit carried away and was innaccurate with what he was trying to convey.
I have been there about 4 years now and am not real involved. I do the Synergy stuff and have thought about being more involved. I have some good friends that have been there awhile and know some who have left.
My problem is that I have sensed that the spirit at Cornerstone doesn't feel quite right anymore & wondered if it is just me. There are some really good things at Conerstone & it seems like Bishop & his wife Kathy are doing good things for people around the world and with the whole campaign to get kids and women out of sex trafficking.
And today's message on It Is Finished seemed very biblical & people came up to get saved. I know I am not perfect & sometimes it seems like people on this blog are a bit judgemental. No one is perfect and as Bishop said, Hell wasn't made for us and God is patient with us as none of us has never messed up. I'm kind of glad I serve a God who is loving and patient and doesn't cast me aside as soon as I blow it. I believe he is just as merciful to Bishop & Robert & Brother Derek Thomas.
Then again, there is a part of me that questions their motives and wonders if they really do care about us & maybe Bishop is just preaching about the Cross because of this blog and being worried about losing so many people lately. So, my trust is lacking.
I am stuck and don't know what to do. Maybe all of you just have an axe to grind. But then again, I have seen things over this last year that make no sense and Bishop has not been open and honest with us. Then he preaches a message like today & I stop and say, "Wow".
Please help me sort this out. I am torn.
To the blog administrator: Is it really necessary to approve every comment? It really slows the dialogue process. I went to another Cornerstone blog and comments get published immediately.
ReplyDeleteI think we are mature enough to handle whatever comments are posted and can sort through the crap.It is frustrating when I have a comment to make & it is limbo waiting for approval & then I have to wait for replies. I have written before as Anonymous.
I guess it is your blog so you can do what you want.
I do have a question though. Today's message by the Bishop seemed really on target and biblical. Can anyone who listened tell me if they saw any inaccuracies. I am still sorting through things and that is the crazy part about Bishop - he can be really off base at times, and then he preaches a message like today. What gives?? Is he losing it or is he just worried about losing members and is now trying to get back to the heart of it all and preach about the Cross. I am still attending, but not all the time. I can't seem to pull completely away because of messages like today that really encourage me.
What gives with my Bishop?? How can he be so off and then so on with his preaching?? Is this typical in other churches with other pastors? I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but don't know if I can much longer with all that has gone on in this past year and with so many people leaving.
Is this just a part of all of the stuff that is supposed to happen in the end times? The world is getting crazier by the day & I need a place to worship that is sound and stable and that is why I am asking if anyone saw anythign wrong with today's message. I know Bishop really tries to keep things positive and remind us that we have overcome the enemy and everything negative that goes with that - sickness, poverty and all that. We are overcomers and do have dominion over all the earth and the enemy. So what can be so wrong with that?? If I walk away from his message feeling good with all of the crap that goes on in life today, is that really so bad? I mean after all, we all need something to make us feel good in these days.
I am just looking for an answer to my questions that might change my mind about Bishop and Cornerstone.
To Need an Answer:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment! We switched to “moderator status” a couple of months ago. I understand that it would be nice to see your comment appear immediately with hopes of receiving a quicker response. However, we do try to post comments as soon as possible…
When we first began, we certainly did not anticipate the number of visitors we have encountered. The idea was to provide articles that might bring support and healing to those who already left Cornerstone and were sorting through years of spiritual abuse and false doctrine. Well, before long we were given much free publicity from our friends back at the “camp”… (THANK YOU btw!) And so it goes… those that were in the process of leaving began reaching out for support as well. Isn’t God good!!
With that being said, wisdom became something to certainly be sought in regards to handling the comment portion of the blog. Some would prefer a “free for all” anything goes, but this is not what we feel would be appropriate or advantageous to keeping the focus of the blog maintained. It would actually work against it.
Hopefully this clarified your question and I thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.
I have been watching this blog - and facebook. I am finding if a topic is seriously spoken about and discussed on here - it ends up on fbook.
ReplyDeleteIf the topic is directly referring to the ministry of the Stone - it ends up on the pulpit.
Michael was all about telling people to NOT associate with us outcasts. Then lo, it is discussed here in great detail and THEN he preaches about how whom you hang out with wont change you.
Preaching the blood of the cross has been being discussed at length on here. He preaches his message. Pay attention - you will see it too.
I cannot possibly be the only one who sees this.
I think we should talk more about how our other churches release their financial records to the public - ONLINE - FREE BROWSING AND DOWNLOAD.
Michael speaks out of both sides of his mouth - depending upon how he needs to please the sheep. He is no shepherd. Read the article someone posted on here about what a shepherd is and how his sheep come to know his voice and HE KNOWS EACH ONE AND CAN CALL THEM BY NAME. Gotta be with the flock as one of them to know them.
just sayin.
It appears much of what is being taught at the stone is to divert attention from the fact that iniquity is practiced from the platform. No one has yet answered the question of "Where is Kellie Pitts? " The Red Herring technique is used to redirect focus from the real issues at hand. So yes, many of the messages are centered around this blog. Yes, Jesus forgives sin, but he does not condone the practice thereof. Immorality is running rampant in that church and all we hear is God understands as if there is no standard of holiness.In short.......Cornerstone has become an Ichabod ministry for those wondering about the change in atmosphere.......The Holy Spirt has departed.........Performance and manipulative messages at best.
ReplyDeleteTo: Need an Answer, as long as your focus is on a man, you will never be able rightfully judge what God is saying directly to you. Don't be fooled by the inspiration you feel from a message MP preaches, God could inspire you using a animal or plant. The Holy Spirit in you should be the ONLY thing you use to determine what God is saying to you. There are so many people still there that’ve had 1 foot out the door, but got sucked back in by the vortex of relationships. It is not my goal to convince you of anything, to go or to stay, but merely state my experience. The only way we achieve maximum results in our lives is to obey God alone! When you have a religious institution (CORNERSTONE) who has clearly lost what was and is driven by what is most important, which is MONEY, POWER, SEX, SUBSTANCES and ALCHOHOL.
ReplyDeleteOnly a fool would question if they should stay or go when you have the knowledge of what’s transpiring there. The “it is finished” message is code for, the fallout which cornerstone has suffered as a direct result of transgressing against the word of God is over. The true intentions of this sort of message is to keep the ill informed loyal to the house, to rebuild the house with more ill informed and to continue with the machine until the wheels fall off. If you don’t think the wheels are going to fall off….mp & rp sure do, just look at what’s being done with their investments and new acquisitions and MONEY.
If you don’t question what will be the end of the thing you are faithful to, you are blindly following and you are substantiating the title the pitts brothers have given you “dumb sheep”. What’s more sad is there are people who’ve defended cornerstone, only to become a victim of cornerstone and they still question or doubt the reason they were victimized, to me that is insanity and part of the reason the “Tomfoolery” continues.
So don’t stand there looking up to heaven for Jesus to return talking about the end times, there is something which we are supposed to be doing, God doesn’t live in time…WE do! So why waste it giving a man the benefit of doubt. No man knows the day or the hour that Jesus will return, so why not maximize your obedience to God, question man and enjoy the fruits of your obedience.
The bible says “where no law is, there is no transgression” mp spins this by categorizing people as religious if they talk about sin. How can you become convicted about the thing which your pastor approves? Hence the reason you will NOT hear him pound on any Godless issues, ONLY THE ONES WHICH EFFECT THE FLOW OF MONEY
Last of all, when you hear mp and he seems to be on, it’s because of the word of God which you know. When he hangs a flesh turn at a corner it is that time which he deflects, manipulates, projects false premises and addresses issues which have ZERO to do with the obedience to the word of God is when he appears off.
The clock is ticking and the current chapter is being written…..What will it say about you?
Tic.ToC.Tic.ToC
To Unsure: Part I
ReplyDeleteThank you for commenting! I understand your dilemma and hopefully we can help you sort through things.
You said: “My problem is that I have sensed that the spirit at Cornerstone doesn't feel quite right anymore & wondered if it is just me.”
It is very common among Authoritarian Churches to indoctrinate members into NOT trusting their own judgment… this is WHY you are questioning “is it me”?? Most are taught to “check-in” at Cornerstone and then over time… “check-out”.
Friend, when we sense in our spirit that something isn’t right… there is ALWAYS a reason for it right?
You must take time to ACKNOWLEDGE what is currently being highlighted and ask the Holy Spirit directly:
● “WHY am I sensing this?
● “WHAT are you trying to show me?”
The Holy Spirit is our navigational guide through uncertainty --not our emotions, our friends, nor our Pastor.
And NO –it’s not just “you”. Everyone that has attended Cornerstone or is attending Cornerstone thinks that at some point of course.. who wants to believe any different. Any other logic would require us to pursue a path of discovery that might bring us to a conclusion of making changes… that are not comfortable.
Surely the great choreographed service, dynamic speaking and hype of going to the “source” of all human trafficking overseas would appear as if it’s just “you” right? Surely there is no source of human trafficking right here in Toledo right?? That’s right… we don’t keep secrets of our efforts overseas, but someone what we do local is somehow a secret. Hmm…. Again, you can see how the card trick is played if you watch very carefully. (You can fool some of the people, some of the time…. you know how that saying goes.)
If you just joined the camp 4 yrs. ago… I would venture to say --you probably sensed that something was not right pertaining certain things, but perhaps you brush it off initially. And considering that you are new, it would be difficult for you to be able to compare the former “glory” of the house to what has become nothing more than an attempt to keep the machine running while filling the long-time member’s tanks with hopes that it will return.
But again, this observation is coming from former members who just have an “axe to grind” right? That makes sense!! One day we went from giving everything we had to the church we loved and when we “didn’t get our way”; we just took off and left. Of course they are going to say this, because they have to come up with some defense to explain what is being said about them. Again, Michael and Robert have used the SAME excuses for years… we are well aware, for we once bought into them as well.
At the end of the day, no one on the “other side” is trying to convince others of anything. We don’t need to… we are merely reporters who are conveying the facts to those who are asking. It is up to you however, to take what is being reported and pray for discernment.
The difference between the counterfeit and the real is not perceivable unless you have a trained eye. It’s a lack of knowledge.. The Word is your only safeguard from deception.
Part II
ReplyDeleteAs far as his current series on the Cross:
Is it a response to what is said on blog and/or the mass exodus?…you be the judge. Maybe offering$ are low and they are attempting to kill 2 birds with 1 stone –by sliding in the ever present “damage control” pitt-stops throughout the sermon. Again, a lot of the messages are being re-packaged –this has been going on for years.
It has become abundantly CLEAR that the voice of the Prophetic has been shut off and dried out --like a faucet in the Badlands of South Dakota.
Either way, have you seen…
●Repentance?
●Accountability?
●Transparency?
●Humility?
●More FEAR of the Lord or that of Man?
For this is the true standard of determining whether HOLINESS and TRUTH are still at the core of a ministry. Some may label us “judgmental” and “religious”. Of course! In order to explain those who are taking what is taught and comparing it to scripture, you would have to come up with some “label” to justify the ditch you have taken everyone into. Cornerstone is not the only “church” that this has happened to… btw
Does this make us perfect or any more “holy”? Certainly not. No one is demanding “perfection”; however we should require integrity and accountability from those who claim they are rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Are we accountable to one another in the Body of Christ or not??
GRACE--
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the motive for the latest “series”, this is actually NOT a new teaching for Michael. He has always refused to call sin out onto the floor UNLESS it benefits his image somehow. Like someone said, he and Robert talk out both sides of their mouth.
*Michael Pitts has ALWAYS leaned toward using the message of GRACE as a means to excuse and COVER OVER sin, instead of teaching that GRACE is the POWER given to believers by which we may OVERCOME SIN! (read that again) It gives us power TO DO what TRUTH demands of us!!
Giving your sin a PASS “because of Grace” is false teaching ALL DAY LONG! It is stripping the POWER OF GRACE that enables and equips the believer to get free from the bondage of sin and never return to it’s trough to eat again!
What is the tell-tell sign of whether GRACE is being correctly presented to you or not? Take a look at the life of the leadership and body. Is LASCIVIOUSNESS a common thread over the years? As “Connecting the Dots” said. Sure people can come to the altar and receive Christ and that is GREAT!! But --if they spend the next 10-20 yrs. struggling with pornography, homosexuality, greed, adultery, addiction, fornication, and gambling –then something is not working.
Hebrews 12:28 –“Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have GRACE, WHEREBY WE MAY SERVE GOD ACCEPTABLY with reverence and GODLY FEAR:”
I Peter 2:16 --“Live as free men, but do not use your FREEDOM as a cover-up for evil’ live as servants of God.”
In 2 Cor. 6:1, Paul told the Corinthian Church (who were saved/spirit-filled) NOT TO RECEIVE THE GRACE OF GOD IN VAIN.
*Jude 3-4 says, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LASCIVIOUSNESS, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (They profess Him w/ their mouth, but deny his Lordship in their lifestyle!!!
If you would like additional teaching on Grace, check out these brief clips on YouTube (the background music is a little distracting, but it’s an excellent example of GRACE the Divine Power not just grace the divine cover-up)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoJqZUXIz4
And also… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS71lG7d9ng
The proof is in the pudding:
Are people regularly getting set free from the “gospel” version of GRACE that is taught at Cornerstone? Or is there a rampant case of sexual sin among the church?? I know, maybe it’s just the water in the drinking fountain.
Friend, wherever you attend church --you cannot use the latest “series” as gauge of determining whether you should leave or not.. this method cannot be trusted. For even the BEST of the False Prophets stir some truth in as well…otherwise they would have no church crowd to speak to.
Judge by the FRUIT, not the Gift.
When you have left the church for whatever reasons. Once you are gone for a little while you see things different. I do not think you are the enemy when you leave. I look at it as I have moved on and am thankful for some of the good things at the stone like reading my bible more and really getting passionate about God. But to me is like middle school (after hearing many messages over and over) ...it is time for High school now. Ready to hear new messages and GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL (as MP is always saying) and to me that means NEW CHURCH.
ReplyDeleteTo those above who are asking how MP can seem to be anointed and asking about one specific sermon or sermon series, consider this .... Michael Pitts latest facebook post is "let us be very sincere in our dealings with each other and have the courage to accept each other as we are...mother teresa." At least he gives credit to Mother Teresa because he has never followed this practice. My ultimate reason for leaving Cornerstone was not that I enjoyed MP's preaching any less, it was that his ACTIONS do not add up what he preaches. This is called hypocrisy and it is the opposite of the sincerity he calls for in Mother Teresa's quote. Jesus criticized the Pharisees repeatedly as being "snakes AND hypocites". The real disconnect between his preaching and his actions is seen in 1 John 4:20, which says "If anyone boasts, "I love God," and goes right on hating his brother or sister, thinking nothing of it, he is a liar. If he won't love the person he can see, how can he love the God he can't see? The command we have from Christ is blunt: Loving God includes loving people. You've got to love both." Peter when speaking of these false prophets said " 17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error." (2 Peter 2:17-18). I don't mean to appear unsympathetic, because I really am, but a little "tough love" is in order here. How can you read the 1,000s of entries on this blog about mean-spirited abusiveness from MP and RP and wonder about one message that he preaches that ministers to you? Its not one or two messages, it's the whole MINISTRY that is the problem. Every "Christian" cult has a LITTLE bit of truth. That's the most dangerous type of lie, alot of lie with just enough truth mized in to make it credible and believable. That's why the Bible says "a LITTLE leaven LEAVENETH the WHOLE lump." The WHOLE lump of Cornerstone has been leavened and I am unimpressed with the fact that MP preaches a few messages about the cross around lent. So do the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons but that doesn't mean I am going to accpet the rest of their wacky doctrine (which, ironically, MP accepts and teaches JW doctrine on prophecy --- anyone ever make that connection?). C'mon people, drink a glass of delicious, fresh, vitamin-enriched milk with JUST A LITTLE arsonic mixed in and see if it doesn't kill you. I'm just sayin' ....
ReplyDeleteWow, thank you all of you for your comments. I guess I have been short-sighted with my focus.
ReplyDeleteLeroy,you are right, I need to stop looking at man, and Speaking the Truth in Love, you are also right, I need to look at what the Holy Spirit is saying to me & why I have the sense that something isn't right.
Your questions as to what is occurring there are also a good measuring stick. Repentance - None,
accountability - None, transparency - None, Humility - non-existent & Fear of God - not so much. I guess that should make my decision easy.
You also mentioned not to go by my feelings or emotions, my friends or my pastor. True again. I think when you are caught up in all of the hype there and the message and the music and everybody shouting and carrying on, it is hard to see with a discerning eye. You just get caught up in the "buzz" of the moment and everybody responding to the "anointing". Bishop always tells us how strong it is.
And yes, I suppose that you are right, one message does not the whole picture or truth make. There is much to be said about a little leaven leavening the whole lump. I have seen first hand and heard stories of those caught up in ungodly behavior - sin, and nobody seems to be real worried about it. All I hear is be patient, they are in process, God isn't finished with them yet. Perhaps the reality is that they are caught up in the leaven & it has become so common place that nobody seems to get to upset about the sexual sin and alcohol use taking place among the congregation especially the youth or younger adults. I for one have just not wanted to be judgemental as that is what others say about our "critics" on the outside. At the same time, I can't overlook what you have said about Grace, Speaking the Truth in Love. Grace is indeed not an excuse for sin, but the power to break sin in our lives.
Having only been there for 4 years, you are right,I can't look back to see what was and what now is. I don't think all of you can be lying or judgemental and have an axe to grind. I have much to pray about and sort out.
Perhaps the best thing for me to do is look at the answers to the questions Speaking the Truth in Love posed above about repentance and transparency and such. The answers are clear to me. I just worry about finding another church because the Bishop makes it seem like all those churches out there are just religious and don't have the anointing or revelation that Cornerstone has.
It is all so confusing at times. It really makes me angry because now it does seem that the Bishop's messages are in response to this blog. How fake and fleshly. I really am angry. And what will my friends there say if I leave?? I guess I will join the ranks of you and I become the enemy. Why does it have to be that way?? Isn't there somebody who can talk to Michael & Robert?? Is it too late to make it right at Cornerstone??
Still unsure.
A very odd thing happened yesterday.. Yes I went to church, not but a few minutes into second service message and PR left the platform...Not 5 minutes later I saw him in the balcony by the door just standing there facing the wall for at least 3-4 minutes. Then he started walking along the back of the balcony very slowly, just looking at the folks in the balcony, almost studying each one. He walked all the way around to the other side then walked out the door. Then a few minutes later, he came back through that same door, walked slowly again all the way around to the other side..sat down for a minute then walked out. Then I saw him downstairs walking back and forth in the foyer by the side door.. It was all very creepy and it made me very nervous.. I wonder if he was looking for one of you who sit in the sanctuary and then come on here and write stuff????
ReplyDelete@Unsure, there is NO ONE that can talk to MP and RP because they don't want to be talked to . . . you know this to be true. Your Pastor has preached in the past that "you can not be delivered from demons you don't want to be rid of", the same is true of his demons. Further, both MP and RP are so high on themselves and their own opinion that they do not regard anyone else's . . . Many people quote the first part of 1 Samuel 15:23 which says "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft" but they often omit the rest which says "and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry". The reason stubborness is as idolatry is because stubborn people worship their own opinions. You can't tell MP or RP anything about anything because they are stubborn.
ReplyDeleteTo Unsure:
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to thank you for your very humble and thoughtful response to our comments. It took courage to step out and contact us. And I know a lot of what I shared was heavy, but I truly want to see believers walking in the GRACE that is freely available to us all!
The GRACE of God is bigger than any sin… absolutely! By His Grace, we have His Power to overcome it!
And as far as feeling “short-sighted”…you are not alone! We ALL have been there… but the good news is that the lessons you will take from this experience will remain with you always; even after everything else fades away. I am personally so thankful for God’s hand upon my life, despite what it costs me at times. "Father always knows best, right?" lol
And ALL should certainly want what's best for YOUR individual life. We will be praying that the Holy Spirit leads you directly onto the path He has prepared for you in this season!
Can some other folks help answer Unsure’s other questions: Thanks… these are very legitimate questions!
●And what will my friends there say if I leave??
●Why does it have to be that way??
●Isn't there somebody who can talk to Michael & Robert??
●Is it too late to make it right at Cornerstone??
What will your friends say? - I don't know because I don't know who your friends are . . . If you mean what will your Cornerstone "friends" say? Be ready and aware, you're about to find out how many of them really are friends.
ReplyDeleteWhy does it have to be that way? - I assume you are referring to the above. It doesn't BUT when you are under the control of a spiritual dictator you fear for your own "life" (in this case non-physical support system).
Is it too late to make it right at Cornerstone?? - It is never too late IF people are willing to "change", which I don;t believe MP is willing to do . . . . I mean, really, how many more chances and public floggings does he have to have before he realizes that HE (not everyone else) is the problem, and yet he persists with greater ferocity each time. Too bad, it could be different, but he won't let it be. . .
Sorry. :(
Proverbs says, "Like a dog returns to his vomit, a fool returns to his folly." I think that scripture encapsulates why MP has been so publicly flogged and yet, he continues to stand on his soapbox unrepentant preaching the agenda of "everybody hurts me and leaves me." I did not leave a person, I left unrighteousness and bad leadership. I for one, am not amused when he joked about his incarceration. I lost two family members to drinking and driving, not really lost, they both died. It is foolishness to think that you don't have to rectify and repent when your sins effect so many people. I spent years preaching in the prison and in drug rehabs trying to minister to those that were addicted with his "mistakes" hanging over my head. I deserve an apology for all the abuse I got from that alone....all the heckling and amusement at my expense. Pretty doggonne uncomfortable I can tell you that!However, for me to think that I would get a sincere apology, is pretty foolish. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Just sayin.....
ReplyDeleteTo Perplexed,
Yes, I think that is really odd too. It would make me really nervous as well. I remember one time right before I left that I opened my eyes in P&W and RP was staring right at me, I mean like his eyeballs were lasers. It creeped me out so bad, it was like he was looking into my soul.....but not in a good way. It felt like.... evil. I know that sounds extremely dramatic, but we had made our decision to leave already and it was just like he could see it. I have never felt that way before or after that time. Trust your gut and pray about everything. Pray for God to use His Holy Spirit and scripture to reveal truth to you. Fast and Pray, I dare you. See what God shows you and then pray to have the courage to follow the direction that you are being led. Don't be a lemming jumping off the cliff just cause everyone else is.
@Perplexed
ReplyDelete"I wonder if he was looking for one of you who sit in the sanctuary and then come on here and write stuff????"
try not to allow yourself to run away with it. It isn't healthy. No one knows, but him, what was going on, what he was doing. For all we know, he was checking out how shadows fall in the house lighting.
I strongly suggest a healthy detachment... just for a sane state of mind and to not trigger anyone else's paranoia... like mine :) Getting caught up in a paranoid, "Is he looking for one of you..." is not necessarily a good thing for recovery purposes.
The truth is, it doesn't matter what he was doing. I cannot give anyone the kind of power over me where I sit around and wonder. If someone wants me to know what's going on, they will tell me. Otherwise, it isn't my business anyhow. When we all get caught up in the wondering what the hecks and why's - it drains the energy needed to focus on the self.
The Lord has not given US nor does He cause us to FEAR. Anyone that tries to use intimidation tactics (and that is what you have here) to try to create fear in you is not of God. Maybe they should walk around and use their discernment to see who needs a hug or a few dollars to buy some groceries this week.
ReplyDelete@ Perplexed:
ReplyDeleteNot everything is as it seems...we had an issue in Spectrum ministry with a child...he may have been looking for the parents.
PS. Did Robert's shadow have horns?
ReplyDeleteI need to share that I keep in mind that these people aren't "evil" or "marking me." -- They are PEOPLE. Like me. Like you. Scary, isn't it?
They are as messed up as I am. And look what power I have over the universe... MWUHAHAHA. *ahem.
I have none.
That's God's job.
Thanks for your comments everyone (and I do appreciate your feedback) ...but let's try to keep on topic.
ReplyDelete“Unsure" & others are looking for answers to their questions and that is much more important than Bobby's parade around the balcony:
●And what will my friends there say if I leave??
●Why does it have to be that way??
●Isn't there somebody who can talk to Michael & Robert??
●Is it too late to make it right at Cornerstone??
A true friend will love you no matter what and respect your decision. A true friend will support you in your endeavors and choose to agree to disagree with you...what God calls one to do is not what He calls another to do...the Holy Spirit may lead you different places at different times.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure on perception or why it has to "be that way" but take the good, take the bad, and then go home and study your bible and hear from God. If you are comfortable there and feel you can get close to God for yourself then accept it, otherwise find a place to worship and serve God you are more comfortable with. MP has said time and time again he has not been called to be everyone's pastor and if you don't like him then don't stay.
I do believe Sis Kathi and his children and those he is in covenant with can talk to MP as well as RP. Find someone in leadership you have a connection with to talk to...I know they will listen.
No, it is not too late to make it right at CStone. I believe God can make all things new and God is the ONLY one who truly knows the heart of a man....each one of us will stand before God accountable for our OWN actions and what WE did here on Earth to further His Kingdom...I mean look at all the folks being witnessed too by this blog...The scripture says it was written to be reproofed and studied...that is exactly what is done week after week on this blog with MP and all the preaching at CStone...makes for good communication and study doesn't it. Look at all the folks reading their bible based on what was said/preached...so even if you disagree with Bishop...you are still searching the Bible and praying to God for answers...those of us who stay, stay for many different reasons and yes as a few folks have said it is for relationships that we hold very near and dear to our hearts...you can't be serving in the same house for many years without loving your brothers and sisters....to be honest I haven't found another place I feel God is calling me to...so until i hear from God I'm staying...I've found peace with my decision to stay, but encourage all of you to pray and do what brings you peace! I do pray for all those hurting or who have been mistreated...I do believe there is good in people and that God will manifest Himself strong over situations...so I sit back and watch...because in the end all that really matters is my OWN heart and why I do what I do. May God bless you all more than you could ask or think!
And what will my friends there say if I leave?
ReplyDeleteThat depends on several factors but the good thing is you will be able to figure out who your real friends are in a matter of days after you announce your exodus from the system. I looked at this as an opportunity to sift people out of my life that had more allegiance to a cult system and MP then to me as a friend. You really only have a few good friends anyhow in which you invest time and energy. In the end, you should not worry about that as much as what will God think if you continue to put man before Him?
Why does it have to be that way?
Because it's a cult. It is an us vs them mentality. Cult 101. When is the last time MP had a local minister in as a guest speaker? Never. You know why, he thinks he is the Apostle of Toledo. He is in delusion. The church has not grown for years while others have doubled.
Isn't there somebody who can talk to Michael & Robert? No. Several have tried over the years and they are too stubborn to listen to anyone. Again, they are delusional people who think way too highly of themselves. You could lay the Bible scripture right in front of them and they could care less.
Is it too late to make it right at Cornerstone?
IMO. Yes. They have been warned by people for 25 years and nothing ever changes. They are full of pride and arrogance. I wish I had a better answer but the track record speaks for itself. It's not too late for MP and RP but I feel their whole kingdom would have to come crashing down before they were open to listening to anyone including God.
To Peace: Part I
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. I agree with you in that, folks need to hear what God is saying and obey His will –regardless. And we do need to get our Word out and study the scriptures in light of what is taught to us, wherever we attend church. Good lesson!
The problem is that God IS often trying to speak TO us, but His voice gets muffled among the philosophies and opinions of other men. And when we are continually fed a steady unhealthy diet, within an unhealthy church structure, led by leaders who teach that THEY hear the Voice of God FOR YOU –then wouldn’t you think it would be hard to IDENTIFY exactly “whose” voice IS currently influencing you?? For this is what you have been trained in.
I’d like to respond to some of what you’ve said. Please understand, this is not meant to attack your comment… but to further expound on the common rationalizations of Michael and Robert Pitts that keep people bound when God is trying to set them free.
“MP has said time and time again he has not been called to be everyone's pastor and if you don't like him then don't stay.”
●Right, this is just another example of taking a “kernel of truth” and using IT to JUSTIFY the folks who disagree with their unscriptural teachings and leadership methods.
●It also feeds into the ELITIST MENTALITY of belonging to “his house”. You know it and I know it… we were all reminded how “special” we are to be apart of this “special move and anointing” of God. (I know some men, who have never placed themselves on such a pedestal, and they have more integrity and anointing in their little toe than Michael, Robert and all their visiting cronies have put together.) Titles and Money DO NOT equate ANOINTING!
“I do believe Sis Kathi and his children and those he is in covenant with can talk to MP as well as RP.”
●No offense intended but… what rock have you been living under? Or perhaps you haven’t belonged to Cornerstone very long to understand how the machine runs. I’m really not sure here.
●First of all friend, you cannot come into a “spiritual covenant” with a man –unless A) you are married to one or B) He died for your sins. Again, this is all apart of the FALSE COVERING DOCTRINE. No more than a historical “piece of paper” ever held a shred of divine authority to grant one man ownership over another. As one former Pastor said it well: “It’s time for me to get off the plantation.” It is what it is… and I too wish I had better news.
To Speaking the Truth:
ReplyDeleteI do love our dialouge...very intriging and no offense taken.
I DO NOT believe MP hears God for me...never have and I've been there for well over 15 years...and I never will. I've heard God speak to me for as long as I can remember (earliest memory I was about 4 or 5 years old) so I respectfully disagree with you there.
With MP and who he is in covenant with...it came out wrong...I meant to say those in his inner circle of friends (I know he is only in coveant with his wife)...and when I typed it I was thinking and typing at the same time...bad thing for me...LOL..so good catch I would have missed that and I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I was saying. You are 100% correct on the teaching of covenant.
My advice is not to stay in an abusive situation...I would NEVER suggest that to anyone. I have not seen the side of MP that is described in this blog as I do not have a personal relationship with him, I don't really need to as far as I'm concerned...I serve God, not a man - so me and God are straight! LOL So, if folks have felt mistreated and were led to leave, God Bless ya all in your endeavours and don't look back...I love ya and am rooting for ya! I do not have this "us vs. them" mentality...we are all ONE as long as we believe in God the Father and His Son Jesus! So, I am sorry those that have experienced this "cultish" mentality...it just plain WRONG!
You say judge the fruit - well I do see the exodus of people BUT I do see the good that is being done too.
I'm there for now...I stay in continue prayer (and believe others should too) so I don't hear the muffled voices of others while I'm talking to God...I suggest praying in the Spirit for some time to build up your faith and then get quiet all alone and really LISTEN and YES God speaks to ALL OF US...not just some men...ALL OF US...when you feel at peace about a situation...it is from God.
Please know I do not offend easily and will "listen" to your responses...know that your responses are studied and proofed with the bible and then once you have directed a certain scripture I study it in many different interpretations to really hear...then I wait for God to speak...so I thank you for your kind, well thought responses that truly ignite a spark so to speak and get me thinking.
So until next time...PEACE :)
Part II
ReplyDelete“Find someone in leadership you have a connection with to talk to...I know they will listen.”
●Really????? And let’s say they do listen, which is nice. But what real purpose is that going to serve if THEY cannot take what you’ve shared and bring the legitimate dispute to the leadership? Just ask Pastor Banks. I know… “Be patient, things will change…we are working some things out.” Right. IS THIS HOW SCRIPTURE INSTRUCTS US TO HANDLE MISCONDUCT/SIN WITHIN THE CHURCH?? Again, where is the biblical accountability and transparency?
“No, it is not too late to make it right at CStone. I believe God can make all things new and God is the ONLY one who truly knows the heart of a man....”
●So in the meantime your advice to “Unsure” and others is to just keep IGNORING what the Holy Spirit is showing them?? Friend, God holds us accountable for what we DO with the Truth that is presented to us. This Truth is also spelled out in his written Word. This allows you to take what is being reported and compare it w/ Scripture. On the other hand, DELUSION is a very strong belief system that begins AFTER you have first chosen to IGNORE the facts that your heart has presented to your mind.
●You are right in that, it IS never too late… until it’s too late. And staying (in hopes that things will change someday) when NO attempt to reconcile and admit wrong doing has occurred TODAY --is unscriptural on OUR part. This btw didn’t begin yesterday, this has been going on for years and years. You have already seen your answer.
Same exposure, same arrogant and irresponsible response…. “It’s an attack, we’re going to the next level!” (Let me know when you get there, because I found out that my "next level" was waiting on ME the whole time! :)
●My advice to such is leave and pray for them. IF they repent and turn from their ways… may reconciliation come to all! Absolutely. What concerns me MORE is that folks do not see how valuable THEIR LIFE is right NOW and choose to remain in a spiritually abusive church… waiting in HOPES that things will change. Life goes by very fast, remember that.
“….stay for many different reasons and yes as a few folks have said it is for relationships that we hold very near and dear to our hearts...you can't be serving in the same house for many years without loving your brothers and sisters....
●Agreed, there are reasons people stay. But, how does leaving the building change the love you have for those that remain? It doesn’t. However… the truth is people rarely remain connected when they no longer have the same thing in common.
This “staying because I love my Pastor and friends” is a clear example of an abusive relationship! The abused stays with what he/she knows and survives on HOPE that all their years of investment will NOT be for nothing. They get beat up, threaten break-up... so they get an excuse, and then the abused becomes high on HOPIUM all over again. Until true issues are admitted and changed, it just becomes a NEVER ENDING CYCLE that both become quickly accustomed to. (It's a classic case of co-dependency on both ends.)
“...so I sit back and watch...because in the end all that really matters is my OWN heart and why I do what I do. May God bless you all more than you could ask or think!”
●Friend, we’ve all been there. A former Pastor told me the same thing… “Wait and pray like the rest of us.” Well, I guess he figured it out too after several years. You can’t want it MORE than they do. Another one said –I’d take a bullet any day FOR you Michael, but I’m not going to take one FROM you. Yes Peace, that means NO ONE can question anything Michael teaches or says... not even full-time ordained ministers.
●We certainly thank you for the well wishes and truly extend the same to you as well. We are still brothers and sisters in Christ regardless.
My final advice: Judge the Fruit, Judge the Fruit, Judge the Fruit
Peace:
ReplyDeleteGood to know you are still out there chewing on things!
And to clarify, I didn't mean that you (specifically) buy into the concept of needing Michael to hear from God FOR you. I was simply bringing the point up that they teach this.
Michael and Robert both have said it on countless occasions: "God isn't going to tell YOU anything, that he doesn't reveal to leadership first."
And yes, I enjoy our dialogue as well. But I cannot help but to ask you the same questions from a couple months ago:
You stated that after 15 yrs. of attending, you are different than alot of other long-timers. You haven't bought into everything.
●So... "If you have been able to recognize and detect that some specific things are not scripturally sound at Cornerstone, why are you still there?"
● “What exactly is this "peace” that you feel FOR. Is it a direct assurance from God that things will change? or is it PEACE for something else?”
● “If you were to leave, do you believe God would have to show you what church to go to next, BEFORE you could leave?”
Again, I am not trying to "nail you" or discourage your journey in any way…. Better yet, you don’t even have to answer these questions on the blog. Actually, seriously consider them in prayer -as you stated, you are doing.
I know I didn't have to answer you, but I wanted to...again to say thank you and to speak out loud to see if it makes sense as I write it..."If you have been able to recognize and detect that some specific things are not scripturally sound at Cornerstone, why are you still there?" Because I recognize there will be issues no matter where I go...men/women are not perfect and I will never agree with everything as we all have a mind of our own to use as God sees fit. I was born and raised in a catholic church, then went to a Lutheran church before coming to Cornerstone...my grandm belonged to many different Assembly's of God, 4-square, and what we called "holy rollers"...I've been to Jehovah's Witness services, I've been to Baptist, and Methodist..oh and First Church of Nazareene...I've seen quite a lot of many things in the Body of Christ...the good, the bad, and the ugly. I hear what you are saying... but I've seen different sides... I see men of God that are being used in His kingdom - I see beyond the flaws. ALSO...my kids have many, many, many, many close friends there and I don't know how they would handle the separation...so they are playing a huge role in this decision. I've talked with them and they have good heads ontheir shoulders and have many of my traits...mainly because of me and my grandma!
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly is this "peace” that you feel FOR. Is it a direct assurance from God that things will change? or is it PEACE for something else?” When I am in service or serving in ministry I feel like I am where God wants me to be and I feel God is using me in the midst of a chaotic situation. I truly miss many folks who have left (Sis Kelly, Min Maus, Pastor David, and many more brothers and sisters in Christ who served with me) and I think my longing to see them and my compassion I felt for their pain was pulling me...but I really did get alone with God and just listened...I heard, wait and see, the truth will be revealed and true freedom will manifest...so I'm waiting...is my wait and see more TRUTH or is my wait and see a complete restoration of CStone??? Only God knows, but right now I am at peace with staying, but I'm cautiously waiting to hear more from God. I can "chew" through the meat and pick out the fat/grizzle...like I do believe in the tithe as biblical (my grandma taught me that way before MP); I do believe in healing and being slain in the Spirit (again...thanks grandma) and I believe in speaking in tongues (thanks grandma) so for that doctrine that is taught...I believe. I questioned many things in Catholicism before I left too...it took me a few years to completely break free.
● “If you were to leave, do you believe God would have to show you what church to go to next, BEFORE you could leave....YES...I do not want to abandon the assembling of saints as I know we strengthen and encourage each other...I would not want to just stop going to church.
Thank you again for great questions to provoke my thinking! Peace and May God Bless you!
What will my friends think...
ReplyDeleteOne of the HARDEST parts of recovery is dealing with the people who are supposed to be your biggest supporters: friends and family.
The ties are tight, even in bad familial situations, we often care what people think. The heart and soul and bare boned truth of the situations is - IT MATTERS NOT.
Your friends will stand with you. Your family will do what they are capable of doing. This is why it is so utterly important to have a support system. Not all of your friends will come out of this unscathed - and I have seen some heavy stuff fall into families because a member decided to leave the Stone.
It doesn't have to be that way - but alas.
The one thing we DO have control of - is ourselves. We can monitor our thoughts and actions and explore where they are coming from/their meanings/and with help, walk them out.
Recovery hurts. But the rewards are endless. The importance is health: mental, physical, spiritual, psychic, psychological... it's an entire package.
The thing I used to say to myself was, "Well, I'm not sweating blood and no one's put me on a cross yet -- so I must be doing ok."
He will not leave you orphaned. He is with you always - till the end of time.
Excuses are like blades of grass just reach down and pick one up, it's the vary thing stagnation feeds off of. Apparently a "Rocket Scientist" is needed...So allow me to state my Hypothesis.
ReplyDeleteMembership Duration + hearing from God does NOT = Discernment! It's your willingness to obey what you hear which determines what God will say to you.
If you've been allowed to see the unrepentant actions & attitudes OVER THE YEARS and remain, You are the "CO" in dependency that continues to prop the "Brother Ship Connection" up, because GOD has CERTAINLY made it visible to the senses.
Reading the Bible + Memorizing/Studying scripture does not = Spiritually Sharp! Being in a building where the bible is mentioned but NOT obeyed, taken out of context is part of the tools used to suck your spiritual maturation right out of your brain. (Why do you think you chant "I give" during the offering?), I digress
It has been said "My experience is NOT subject to your argument" and I stand fast because of my experiences and what God has said to me. When you see Strange behavior and hear OFF comments which substantiates your conclusions and still have not questioned your leader, the fear of God is not in you because the fear of man is greater..................
Sorry for the rant, I just "could" help myself...so I did!
Leroy =
ReplyDeleteRecovery 101 tells us to note whether actions and words coincide. If they do NOT - there is a PROBLEM. Period.
We have to decide whether to ignore it. Then - it seems to come down to this - Is staying in the situation more painful than leaving?
People convince themselves that it is more conducive to the soul to stay. It is easy. It is comfortable - and really ... who wants to be alone.
This is where we all find out how little faith we all actually have. It is always in these situations I have to humble myself to realize I CANNOT do it alone. It is frightening - it hurts - but I will come out on the other side.
I believe - help me in my unbelief.
***REASONING vs. DISCERNMENT**
ReplyDeleteTo our friends such as Unsure, Peace, Hmmm, Curious2, and the others still sorting through things:
You can find a million REASONS to stay… and RATIONALIZE every one of them with valid concerns… true.
But ---What you must come to realize is that DISCERNMENT is not seeing something for the potential of what "COULD BE". DISCERNMENT is the ability to see something for what IT IS right now.
I will follow suit with Leroy and give another analogy:
**How do you successfully escape a house that has caught on fire?
You do so by sense of SMELL. This is like discernment…. You smell the smoke, are confident in what you are sensing, quickly grab your Precious things (family)… and EXIT IMMEDIATELY.
If you wait until you can literally SEE the flames and FEEL the heat… you now also have to escape from underneath a collapsing roof.
Trust what you are sensing/smelling…… even those standing outside the building, hundreds of feet away can smell the smoke.
It's once you are out, that everything starts to become clearer.
You will not find the path by way of REASONING. It simply doesn't exist... trust your discernment.
*Listening* to all the discussion back and forth, I have a question. What about hearing from the HS for ourselves? We don't see the future or even the big picture. How do we know if God is asking someone to remain behind, not necessarily to buy into all of it, but because he's gonna use them as a catalyst for change? And that could be ANY change, restoration or removal. I mean, I left over 3 years ago and I am still not in a "church." I've had several people tell me that I am not scriptural since I don't belong to a body. The truth is, I am where God wants me for now. I will know when it is time for me to move to the next place. So, couldn't PEACE have the same hearing and understanding from God that I do? Just perhaps PEACE is there for a reason. Not trying to stir the pot, and yes I know that this doesn't apply to the majority who know they are supposed to leave yet keep finding excuses to stay. Just asking....
ReplyDeleteSorry, just had another thought. For example, Hosea took a prostitute for his wife after God asked him to. I'm sure to ALL of Hosea's friends and family he looked crazy as why he would have a harlot for a wife. Especially in that culture, he would have been shunned for his actions. Yet God had a greater purpose that HE didn't share with everyone, just Hosea. And even then Hosea probably didn't really get the big picture until after the fact...
ReplyDeleteSo maybe, just maybe God is asking different things from each of us that doesn't seem to flow with what others are doing. I could never imagine moving and becoming a pastor as Angela did because that isn't what God has called me to. Just wondering...
Living Loved, that sounds like a great idea but there are very clear scriptures on what one ought to do when they see certain signs in leadership.
ReplyDeleteHosea is not an applicable story to what we are talking about here. Again, you have to stay in context with the Bible. You can't cut and paste things together from a different dispensation from on guy named Hosea and apply it to whether someone should stay in a "church" that does not teach sound doctrine and is greedy for gain...
Paul said if you see these things, LEAVE NOW. RUN!
He did not say stay and pray, maybe God is going to use you, etc. It sounds nice but everyone who tried this can now say they wasted even more years of their life playing the co-dependency game.
Mike doesn't need you and it ain't about you. It's about them and their kingdom. I don't know how much clear it needs to be made or how many other blogs and posts need to go up before we quit trying to justify staying at a place that God CLEARLY instructs us to leave?
I mean how much more do we want to rationalize what is going on here?
To Living Loved:
ReplyDeleteFriend, have you read through all the articles? We have tried to make it abundantly clear that we WANT people to HEAR the Voice of the Holy Spirit for THEMSELVES. To find and follow THAT PLAN despite what others are saying or doing. Sure, we are going to use scriptural and natural examples to help others sort through their questions and the subsequent process of discovery… for we understand that there is much indoctrination to sort through. We've all been there.
With that being said:
I truly cannot believe that after being gone for 3 yrs., you would think that God would leave someone behind to be a “catalyst” for change. How do you suppose that could even possibly happen?? Or have you not considered that many have already tried? You cannot impose your will onto someone else. And how would this “catalyst” enforce change that is not allowed beyond the “hierarchy” of Michael and Robert? Cornerstone will not change UNTIL Michael and Robert change. Has anyone TESTIFIED to such change??
Friend, you must not stare back at “Sodom and Gomorrah” by trying to draw conclusions of “what if”. If God has launched you into a season of healing in order that you may rejoin a new church… remain focused on THAT by all means necessary. I understand, you may be trying to just make sense of things and this is not meant to slam you for asking a question. Please understand, not everything we currently question will be answered in this season. List the lessons learned, keep surrendering yourself to the process, and TRUST the path He leads you on. As the others have shared, it really takes you about 3+ full years to sort through everything. And some things.. we may never fully answer. Not to discourage anyone, but it is what it is and at some point we all must become "ok" with that part of the puzzle.
At the end of the day, I’d rather face the ocean waters as I swim to shore, than to remain stuck on a sinking ship at sea. Amen!
When you are ready, find a church that is biblically sound. Where you can hear the unadulterated Word of God by a Pastor who CARES for you like a Shepherd… as we outlined in our previous article. Please don’t feed into the fears that current members have of “I can’t leave…there’s nowhere else to go… yadayada”. For there is NO excuse of remaining in a church after God has revealed to you it is time to go. You simply set aside your fears, pick up your tent, and follow the cloud..
And in regards to Hosea:
I am glad to not be him! He was an OT Prophet who was chosen by God to live a life that reflected the adulterous relationship in which Israel had built with polytheistic gods. So no, God would NOT expect you to remain in a church that has CLEARLY violated his requirements of leadership and proper NT church structure.
As eyeswideopen said: We must be lovers of the truth by STUDYING THE SCRIPTURES. Of course “they” will label you religious to defend their right to drive themselves into a ditch. But I would rather be labeled as such… and Fear God instead of man. And anyone who labels you “religious” for the sake of defending their unrighteous actions, has some sort of an ulterior motive. This is an egotistical, arrogant attitude and the Bible says to MARK THEM AND AVOID THEM… for their good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. And yes…not me, but the Bible calls us “SIMPLE”, who are deceived by false teachers within the church.
Sorry, I guess I was just defending PEACE's right to hear from the HS for themself. Didn't mean to stir the pot.
ReplyDeleteTo Living Loved:
ReplyDeleteNo worries, we are just trying to respond to the questions that you asked. Please don't feel you need to defend anyone's "right" to hear from the HS --for we are saying the same thing here.
*** And most often --HEARING itself is a process.. NOT a one time audible voice that says, "Behold, leave Cornerstone." ***
(Most often it will come to you one layer of truth at a time.)
What I’m trying to get at is THIS MENTALITY of "I can't leave until I know WHERE I'm going next". It acts like a road block that keeps people tied when they DO FEEL it’s time to go!! (This is why we are expounding on this so heavily.)
To be honest, I really don’t know of many people who actually found their new church BEFORE leaving.
#1 How can you, if you aren't out there visiting other churches? And certainly you would need to meet this new Pastor in order to identify a possible connection with him, right? Of course!
#2 Even if you DON'T IDENTIFY this new church and Pastor (before leaving), if God is showing you that things aren't right --then you need to follow through with THAT STEP of obedience first and LEAVE. What are you waiting for? Waiting UNTIL you figure the next step out... is NOT how the walk of FAITH works. Yes, this journey will require GREAT FAITH on your part. But, you can do it!
Living Loved... don't be weary in well doing friend! And please don't feel you need to "defend" your church-status to us. Everyone is at different places in their journey!! Everyone.... for there were people that left Cornerstone way before I did and this is WHY I extend grace to those who don't currently see what I see. This is why I encourage them to hear from the HS --for He alone knows how all things are going to come together for each of us. The key is being open to it...
I'm believing for you --keep walking it out!
Wow.. Peace... you are popular today! lol
Thank you LvingLoved...appreciate your sentiment.
ReplyDeleteAt all: ...but whose truth? there is a lot of sound doctrine taught at CStone, not all of it is bad or false. MP cannot control the actions of everyone and none of us know what is being done behind close doors to address flesh issues. John 3:17 (ironic that is today) says Jesus came not to condemn the world, but to save the world...if that is the case and the men/women on the platform who have sinned - there salvation lies in the Blood of Jesus and they each are accountable to God for their actions. So, at the end of the day...I ask again..whose truth? Your perception of the truth? Leroy...I miss ya man and I'm sorry you experienced what you did...but it isn't about me...it's about the big picture...it's getting the Word of God to all nations...we are doing good at CStone and I know we can do ALOT more good...I pray God reveals Himself strong in our midst!!! We can all pull out different scripture to defend our stance on pretty much any issue much like Living Loved took a story out of the bible to make a point (which I did understand your point...Thank you)...but as much scripture as you use to defend your stance I can use scripture to defend mine...so I ask you again...WHOSE TRUTH? This is where the Holy Spirit comes in to lead us and we follow HIS instruction...that is my advise to folks struggling...just FOLLOW the Holy Spirit...He will NEVER steer you wrong.
Await your thought provoking answers...Peace :)
LOL...:D)
ReplyDeleteeyeswideopen,
ReplyDeleteWhat I get when I read Hosea is a beautiful love story God has for Israel despite their repeated "affairs" with other gods. That also speaks to us as our "bridegroom" and his patience and unending love for us as his bride. (Not so that we continue in any "affairs" that pull us away from him, but rather the wooing of us back to his great love for us.)
That being said, the underlying principle I also get is sheer OBEDIENCE of a man to his God even when he and everyone else around him DID NOT UNDERSTAND what God was doing. And what Hosea did in obedience clearly defied "scripture" as he knew it.
To me, Hosea has much relevance with this topic. If PEACE feels that he/she is being obedient to what the HS is telling him/her, even if it is contrary to what the rest of us has heard and followed, then IMO no one has the right to say one way or the other if PEACE is really hearing from God.
Speaking truth in love,
ReplyDeleteThank you again for having an open forum where we can gather and *talk* about what's going on at CC and talk about our own experiences. And yes, I have read ALL the articles and responses (and occasionally responded) on this blog.
I do agree time and time again with most of what is being said. I think it was more the 'tone' of comments being directed at Peace that really set me off. I was just trying to say that at the end of the day we all need to respect each other (even if we don't agree). I felt that a few of the comments were trying to undermine Peace's faith in his/her own ability to hear God for him/herself. And I know that this is totally OPPOSITE of what you are trying to accomplish with this site. So in my (often beat-around-the-bush style) I was trying nicely to tell people to back off and give a little grace. XD
Living Loved,
ReplyDeleteHosea did not have a copy of the Zondervan NT Bible.
Hosea was used by God to show us what He would do in Christ in the dispensation of Grace. That example is finished along with alot of other stuff in the OT. That was a type and shadow of the real and a tutor to bring us to CHRIST. Now we don't live by the shadow we live by the Word of God and the NT instructions to NT believers.
To say that God would tell someone to do something contrary to His own instruction and will is a dangerous path my friend and where alot of these people get off and end up ship wrecked like MP with the "Word of the Lord".
If you want to go down that road then let's do everything else everyone was ever told to do:
Let's go back to polygamous relationships. God told me to do this the other day even though Paul said otherwise.
God told me to marry a harlot from the local strip club even though He instructs us IN SCRIPTURE to not be yoked with the unbeliever.
You mine as well throw the Bible out the window driving down 75 and just go with whatever you hear the Lord telling you to do.
Be careful, That is a dangerous way to rationalize behavior and leadership models that are contrary to the BIBLE.
We are to live our lives according to the instructions under the dispensation of Grace. Live in the real not the shadow.
Peace, I almost think you throw loaded questions out there because you WANT me to convince you otherwise! lol
ReplyDeleteFriend, if am not in the business of convincing folks to leave Cornerstone. If I did, we would read Life DURING Cornerstone. However, we understand that those who are IN the process OF leaving.. have asked for our help and out of compassion, we are willing. If that is not you… remain on board the “bus” and gamble your years in what “may or may not” come while you’re paying {quite a fare} for not really going much of any where.
WHOSE TRUTH? I think that’s the question God is trying to ask YOU in this season.
“Peace, WHOSE “TRUTH” are you listening to?”
It’s not my word against Michael’s word. It’s God’s Word –end of story. I am not trying to insult you by any means. But READ your Word… STUDY it for yourself. IF ANYONE TEACHES FALSE DOCTRINE AND REFUSES TO TURN FROM IT… FLEE.. do not even sit at the table with them. It’s simple.
You said:
“MP cannot control the actions of everyone and none of us know what is being done behind close doors to address flesh issues. John 3:17 (ironic that is today) says Jesus came not to condemn the world, but to save the world...if that is the case and the men/women on the platform who have sinned - there salvation lies in the Blood of Jesus and they each are accountable to God for their actions.”
Ok… where to start?
First of all, no Michael cannot “control” the actions of other people. However, he is to hold them and HIMSELF accountable to the congregation… the Bible is CLEAR on how we are to do this. And it’s NOT handling things “behind closed doors” with no one else present. This is blind faith… you do realize this right?
But let’s take a look at HIM. Where is the accountability with his drinking and other charges in and out of the State of Ohio? He told you it was an attack, right? Well, should it surprise you that if HE holds this attitude (when clearly caught red HANDED)… that it would be any different among the others??
Paul called Peter out publically when he was teaching false doctrine. Michael is a False Leader because he unrepentedly draws people to follow HIM instead of Christ. He and Robert both use the Word of God to manipulate people as a means of “damage control.” Need I say more??
ReplyDeleteJames 3:1 “Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” Hmmm….
Vs, 17,18 “But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.”
Is THIS the fruit you are seeing?? No… there are no damage control messages coming from that platform. No, former members aren’t villainized and lied about from that platform.. No….
I agree, Jesus did not come to the world to condemn it.. but he DID come to EMPOWER you and I with his Grace to overcome the power of it. Not use GRACE as an EXCUSE for it. This is CORNERSTONE all day long… No one is condemning anyone by holding them accountable. Those are (2) different things. In fact we are to seek restoration AFTER our brother confesses his wrong doing. Has there been any confession of such?
Where is the accountability for the dissolved marriages? Aren’t those in leadership required to set an example? I suppose if you are a female and become pregnant, you would need to be sat down. But a male who is the father… that image is “ok”. I guess we pick and choose at that point. Again, not “beating anyone up” for their failures.. I’m just saying: Why aren’t the standards upheld? Perhaps if they WERE, folks would not be so prone to getting themselves into these situations in the first place. And pursuing a lifestyle of HOLINESS would be a resulted fruit.
Where is the reconciliation?? Where is the FRUIT of this powerful ministry?? Where is Kelli Pitts? Where is David Martinez, Rich Maus, Ken Vanhoose, Larry Mack, Nick Cook, and Dennis Carey? And the countless “pillar people” who have left? Need I say more??
Again, Peace…. Read our article on the Fruit of False Prophets. You can place a “fig” among a thornbush to give it the “appearance” of good fruit. Just like you can take true biblical teaching and place it among false teachings. Same thing. We can pick ANY religious institution and say “look, they are doing good in the community”… but if they are teaching false doctrine –does that somehow get a pass from God??
I don’t care where you go to church; if someone is openly teaching false doctrine and you ARE aware of it… you are just as guilty because you are SUPPORTING AND FUNDING IT. The Bible is very clear on your course of action from that point on as I’ve stated above.
And furthermore, even if you ARE doing good things…. But have not LOVE… it is nothing but a noisy floor show. End of story.
@peace
ReplyDeleteThe devil knows the word of God more than most Christians, that is how he is able to twist and pervert it!! Jesus wasn't tempted by some half-educated demon, he was tempted by satan. I'm sure the devil can quote the Bible forwards and backwards seeing how he used to dwell in the very presence of God. I pray that you get clarity of mind, because right now you are like the dust blown through a fan! Leroy and the Author couldn't have made it any easier to understand.
Maybe its me but I have been at cornerstone for 23 years and MP has cracked open that bible every service so where does the false doctrine come in? And you all may not like him anymore but he is still a man of god with all his flaws and failings and I wonder if God is pleased with all of you who obviously have all the answers and are really being quite nasty to first of all a man of God and second another human being. I am glad I am not a part of your family or your child, god help me if I ever made mistakes, I would be put out.. I mean really, you guys have obviously been out of church way tooooo long and been writing on here too much rather than working on your love walk. maybe it is a good thing that you left, in your own words about a little leaven screwing up the whole lump! Get a life, find a church and leave us alone. You dont attend our church anymore so my god stop worrying about what we are doing. Go sit in your church and scrutinize your pastor, oh but thats right, you dont have one!
ReplyDeleteyeah and chances are this will never make it to the blog cuz we dont want anyone to challenge the blog "pastor" yeah thats a good idea. let an anonomous blogger be your pastor...great!
no wonder you all are still all messed up...you arent hearing from God you are justifying your own opinion with no accountability...whatever..go to church.there are pleanty of GREAT ones in toledo, thats why none of you have found one that suits you yet.
To Ticked:
ReplyDeleteA 23 yr. member, does not a superior Christian make. Sometimes the truth is not easy to swallow...regardless of "how" you say it. Sometimes the truth is not pretty, no matter "how" you package it. And we have always given grace to those who are still sorting things out.. I know you know this. You are just “ticked” because we bluntly addressed a lot of the common “trip hazards” today…
With that being said:
How does “Cracking open a Bible” equate to preaching it within context?
Friend, clearly we do not see "eye to eye" here. And after “23 yrs.”, I understand how our comments may offend you. My advice is stop tuning into the news report, if you can’t handle what is being reported. And clearly you have not a dog in the fight, because you have been unable to provide one single scripture to dispute what has been said. Instead you resort to throwing stones… and throwing around assumptions of those who have left. Why? Because you are taught to get all your “revelation” from Michael…. You know your “delegated authority”.
Hey, thanks for the title of “Blog Pastor”! I suppose I have 65,000 members now… not too bad for 6 mos.
●Perhaps I should tell them all that “I” am their covering and if they no longer “attend”, they will be without Spiritual Covering!
●Perhaps I should tell all my members that if they don’t tithe to ME, they will be CURSED! (Yes, as a born-again, blood-washed, Child of God.. you can be Blessed and Cursed at the same time??)
●How about I tell them that “I” regularly drink alcohol and it’s ok… now if I get caught doing it and THEN driving.. well, that would be an attack of the devil!! Don’t worry about my drinking becoming a stumbling block for any of you who are new to the faith, or our young people… nah, it’s not important for me to be a role-model at all! “Stay away from my pork chops..” as Robert would say.
●How about telling my members that GOD CREATED “EVIL”… so NO BODY is to blame when things get out of control in my life… (that would be a nice escape goat indeed!)
●How about minimizing sin among the members, by teaching them that Grace is there to cover-up your sin, instead of setting them FREE with the truth that Grace is there EMPOWER YOU TO OVERCOME IT!
●Thou shalt not JUDGE righteously within my church. No judging allowed… (good thing Abraham Lincoln didn’t bend under such pressure.)
●My FAVORITE: I will secretly slip in false teaching by manipulating the meaning of SEED for my own gain. I will tell my members that SEED is MONEY and in order to "receive" my messages... they will need to $ow a $pecific $eed!! (btw..Seed is the Word [in the Beginning was the Word] of God... also read Luke 8:11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.")
●Better yet –I am the Pastor and I will hear directly from God FOR you… you are nothing more than STUPID SHEEP.
●In my church, we don’t worry about our Pastors qualifiying for their positions… we’ll take care of that by SKIPPING RIGHT OVER I Timothy 3. (maybe nobody will notice…)
●And yes my followers…. I am the Anointed Bishop with my Catholic Collar and Flashy Ring… you are now under my Apostolic Rulership… This means: NO QUESTIONS OR ACCOUNTABILITY ALLOWED.
After 23 yrs. it appears that nothing gets past you, right? So you are clueless to all the LASCIVIOUSNESS going on right?? Not a clue, huh??
Show me… WHERE we are bearing a false witness??
Whenever you get done sippin’ on the kool-aide get back with us. In the meantime, let me know if you find out where Kelly Pitts is. A lot of people are missing her.
You can "say" you are a man of Gawd all day long but..it doesn't make it so
ReplyDeleteMatthew 7-
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Ticked-
ReplyDeleteTell us how you REALLY feel! ;-)
Only two things stuck out from your rant - which I totally "get" - I truly do.
"I mean really, you guys have obviously been out of church way tooooo long and been writing on here too much rather than working on your love walk."
I can see this. There is a lot of anger coming out, isn't there? But as Bishop once taught me - we don't know the hearts of men. (Heck, I hardly know my own) Just like we know not the hearts of other men - you do not know mine. I understand you are making a generalization. But I want to blather on...
Nor do you know what walk I am on. It's my walk - not yours. Bishop taught that too. Obviously, you have not read any of *my* posts. My issue is with ME. I am working on ME. My observations are how *I* didn't fit and WHY. Bishop also teaches to READ IT FOR YOURSELF.
There are dysfunctional dynamics in that house of God. There are dysfunctional dynamics anywhere there are two or more people - since that fateful day in the Garden. I do not believe for one minute that God would want them shoved under the rug the way they are there. I am not saying that the headship should stand up and give all the morbid details - good lord. People can't handle that. But when a question arises such as the questions ARE - address them. The silence rings of nefariousness.
Don't ask me about unsound doctrine, to me, that is an opinion. I'm not a theologian. Of course, neither is Bishop. HAH!
I suppose anything could be biblically supported any way anyone wants to go. Heck, I find Carlton Pierson making sense on some occasions. David Koresh (insert any cult leader's name here) managed to suck people in until they didn't care WHAT he was saying.
"god help me if I ever made mistakes, I would be put out."
This is a most excellent point. I agree. I agree. I agree. I am also speaking as one who made a mistake and WAS put out. For the good of the whole, as I understand it.
But that is neither here nor there - we all make mistakes. How many of us take responsibility and ownership of them? God forbid we do... eh? God forbid we apologize to those we wronged - God forbid we try to make amends where necessary and where it won't cause more damage.
I guess I should apologize to the entire House of God known as Cornerstone for being stingy with my tithing. Well, sometimes I actually paid my bills and didn't have the 10%. My van was repo'd twice. I rent. I have 5 children - drive two crapmobiles and shopped only at goodwill. Never got my hair done - nails done - good lord if you know me there is TRUTH TO THAT. Perhaps this is the punishment for not tithing. Even though life was like this when I was a steady tither. Either way, sorry to cause the house distress. When I make my first million (you just can't see it yet) - CStone will get my 10%. Just on principal.
"maybe it is a good thing that you left, in your own words about a little leaven screwing up the whole lump! Get a life, find a church and leave us alone."
It is good we left - for us - and for those whose hearts are still grounded in the House of Stone. As much as I want to belong there, I don't.
We aren't bothering you or t he collective. You have made your presence known to US. And welcome.
I fear I do not see the author of this blog as my Pastor. Was I supposed to?
Thank you LivingLoved...I feel your love! I'm good...I take no offense...everyone has their own perception of reality and their perception is reality to them and I respect that. God has given us all freedom and we all should be able to speak freely without condemnation.
ReplyDeleteAt Speaking Truth..u really are comical of late..nice touch to the blog LOL...seriously through I do MISS INCREDIBLY sis Kelly - I pray for total restoration in that situation; but IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS that is what I meant about "behind closed doors"...I would not want my marriage and all our "dirty laundry" publicized if we were in the same situation...you know what I mean?? Her name is still on the chair and her pics are still up and I believe that is in hopes for reconciliation...THAT WOULD BE GREAT...but that is again between the two of them and their boys. Also, I don't know if you were there..but MP was EXTREMELY repentant after his last DUI...it was a special meeting for the "CStone Crew"...he cried and did ask for our forgiveness...I'm sorry, I can't kick a man when he is down...my bible says to forgive 70 x 7 times - MP is just a man, he is not perfect...maybe you have misunderstood him because I have never heard him say "follow me"...he always says to give all the honor to God, not him. So that statement confused me.
@ Ticked...I hear ya, I hear your frustration; however, we need to speak in love and witness as we can by showing God's love...that is how they will know we are HIS by LOVING one another <3 Peace to ya all till we "speak" again!
@Speaking Truth
ReplyDelete"What I’m trying to get at is THIS MENTALITY of "I can't leave until I know WHERE I'm going next". It acts like a road block that keeps people tied when they DO FEEL it’s time to go!! (This is why we are expounding on this so heavily.)"
Being part of corporate worship is a relationship. It truly is. I take it VERY seriously. So many people do NOT leave when it is time to leave. How many people remain in a marriage that is abusive but do not leave until there is another person to "go to."
Like I said, this is where our faith is REALLY tested. Also - I loved the question:
WHOSE TRUTH.
Holy Cow I have been asking that since day ONE of being saved. Person one preaches the Holy Spirit - Person two preaches the Holy Spirit - both grab their Bibles and claim doctrine. WTF?
Jesus said, "I AM."
All I know is that the Holy Spirit stands guard at the crossroad. Which is where a lot of us are. And it's ok.
I think the final nail for me was when the words, "You don't need to question what I say..." came off the pulpit. Yes, that rebellious spirit. Except Proverbs 14:15 instructs that:
The simpleton believes every word he hears, but the prudent man looks and considers well where he is going.
*sigh*
I believe God likes when we question... even doctrine. Because who do we ask then? We have to ask Him and go to His book and then do our OWN seeking.
@ "ticked"
ReplyDeleteIt is ok to be upset, for even the Word instructs us to be angry and sin not. However, dysfunction becomes evident when our anger is directed at the wrong things. I would advise investigating for yourself to see if allegations against leadership are true, if not, then we all need to fall on our knees immediately and repent but, if so, then you ought to reconsider your position and examine the facts of the matter for yourself. It's easier to blame others than to face the facts and have to perhaps forfeit your 23 years of membership. By the way I have 2 questions for you: Where is Kelli Pitts and What flavor of Kool-Aid are you drinking?
Forgiving 70 x 7 does NOT include accepting the behavior. PERIOD. It does not mean that we pretend the transgression never happened.
ReplyDeleteThe "special meeting" that was held post DUI was for the select. Everyone cries after they have been caught. Except maybe sociopaths.
Was he sorry that he drank and got behind the wheel of a car - or was he sorry for his getting caught and being publicly exposed (so to speak).
Did he apologize for putting everyone's lives at risk on the road? Did he admit to being careless and compulsive? You DO know he has been stopped for driving WHILE HIS LICENSE HAD BEEN SUSPENDED(First time - check the court dockets)? Big deal, right? No. He was driving drunk, license was suspended - and he got behind the wheel of a car. I bet he was more careful the second time... you know - AFTER HE GOT CAUGHT.
He is a repeat offender in many aspects.
In fact, it can get disgusting at times. An apology without amends making/a recovery process is WORTHLESS. Actions need to match words.
How have you SEEN his repentance? Does he attend meetings? Does he have a sponsor? A therapist? A pastor? Does he feel he has a drinking problem or is getting popped once every 6 years just one of those things?
The flavor of the Kool-aid is whatever he is dishing out.
I was there when MP had that special “Crew Meeting”. It was a special meeting alright, for damage control. In fact it crossed a line in the sand imo. MP said he would never use his platform for his own agenda. That day he did and it hurt me to see him hide behind his problems, instead of coming forth with honesty. I would have gladly supported him in that.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention it wasn’t until MONTHS after he was arrested and facing jail time, that he even bothered to address us. It’s hard to minister out at CCNO, when your Pastor is in there.
Yes, he DID say he was sorry…. NOT FOR DRINKING AND DRIVING. He said he was “sorry for any EMBARRASSMENT his actions may have caused us.” He looked right at us and said “This is an “attack” of the enemy set out to stop us from going to the next level.” Then he went onto spend the next few weeks making light of his sentence in jail by saying that “he was going to visit our relatives.”
I remember people were standing up and shouting, “No , pastor you don’t need to apologize to us” He went onto blame his sister for causing trouble and that’s why she isn’t there anymore.
Then he twisted the story about Larry Mack leaving and discredited him. Then he explained why they made the radio station secular, even though it was supposedly suppose to have been a Christian station (more money I suppose)
That was the gist of the meeting. Not sure about the tears. Perhaps they were tears of a man who wants love and affirmation, but cannot find the courage to be honest with his problems. If he would be honest and RP and him both come clean and ask God to forgive them, maybe then things could change. But I think their track record speaks volumes more than any thing else.
MP has never allowed us to question what was taught. He has said on countless occasions that he is our Headship and Spiritual Covering. But how can this be when Christ is the Head? Those that are led by the Spirit, they are the Sons of God.
We should forgive people and I have. But in this situation, forgiveness for the REAL TRUTH was never offered to us. Only excuses and cover ups for real problems. I would have loved to stay, but when the Spirit of God departs, so do I. I don’t think the Lord would require us to forgive someone and let them keep on putting us in an unhealthy situation.
Anon @ 8:58AM - I will pray for you because WOW...I hope my life transgressions aren't remembered and blasted for all to see and I am very THANKFUL Jesus died for me and HIS blood WASHES me clean. The "special" meeting was NOT for the "select"...it was for those who serve in ministry EVERYONE in a ministry was invited...so I truly did see his repentant heart and YES he did take a break and went to get help from yes HIS pastor...but that is not news, nobody wants to know that...and uh..BTW...again...NONE OF MY BUSINESS...that is between MP and God to get right.
ReplyDeleteThe question asked on this blog was why do we stay? what makes us leave? Why serve in a 'one man show'...it goes back to I don't believe it is a ONE MAN/MP show...it is a ONE MAN/JESUS show...I do believe MP has a heart fo God and is serving God for the right reasons...and I'm not drinking any kool-aid, nor am I brainwashed...I am a God-fearing, Spirit-filled, Jesus freak! I love God with my ALL and live only to serve HIM and HIM alone...I can't answers anyone elses question "do I stay or do I go" as each of us as our own walk with God - but I do respect everyone in their own decision as well as we all should. The auther of this blog has been very welcoming to those of us in turmoil over leaving and helpful to those who have left...I do not discredit anything any of you have experienced...but I haven't had the same experiences...I haven't seen the mean side of the folks in headship...I don't have space in my heart or life for bitterness...I've come through so much in my life that I am so thankful for the PEACE my God has given me. Listen...in the end we ALL will be SERVING God TOGETHER as ONE GREAT BIG FAMILY...let's treat eachother right while we are still here on earth. Let's stay on task...comforting those who have left with pain they should NOT have had to bear and encourage those on the fence and support those choosing to stay (for whatever reason) There is no need for attacks. I enjoy this blog - believe it or not - I enjoy the dialoge back and forth, I love the provacative conversations, and I love the studying of scripture that is taking place...what an awesome witness tool! Keep on conversing, keep on debating, keep on bantering...BUT let's keep it positive and constructive!
Okay --I'm off my soap box, sorry - but we all just need to treat folks right...we are all BROTHERS & SISTERS IN CHRIST FOR PETE'S SAKE NO MATTER WHERE WE CHOOSE TO SERVE/WORSHIP/LIVE FOR GOD. Now a great big group hug :)
Peace: Part I of the Final Chapter...
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your love for the Lord, regardless. (Most often we cannot post comments from folks who go to Cornerstone because they are filled with cursing and threats.) However, I completely disagree with your interpretation of events in regards to the DUI's. Staff were not even informed that he was arrested, but I digress.
With that being said, I agree with you also in that it is great to provide a dialogue where the scriptures can be discussed further. This is not something offered at Cornerstone. (Perhaps this is why you enjoy the blog… it challenges you and makes you hungry to search a matter out.)
I keep hearing some say: “Who can know whose teaching is right?” “Scriptures are interpreted different by everyone.” This has become a lazy excuse within the Body of Christ. You don’t have to be a bona fide THEOLOGIAN to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Buy a $50 Strong’s Concordance… study the Word for yourself and with others. *Especially study a lot of the popular Charismatic teachings of today.. Does the Word not say: “STUDY to show thyself approved” “MY PEOPLE suffer from a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.”
Paul explained that the reason so many are easily misled in these latter days is because they “did not receive the LOVE OF THE TRUTH” (2 Thess. 2:10). The LOVE OF TRUTH sharpens our discernment and keeps us error free. Those who have developed this love of truth, will never elevate a gift above God’s wisdom.
Now, we ARE going to have certain individuals preach something that has been handed down to them… like folk theology. The difference is: IF they are open to studying that out with you, than I CAN work with that. HOWEVER, if they refuse to answer your questions and come to an answer AMONG A PLURALITY of LEADERSHIP –that’s another thing altogether. For there is SAFETY IN A MULTITUDE OF COUNSELORS.. is there not?
(Bible interpretation #101… Scripture supports scripture. If you cannot find another scripture to support your interpretation, then chances are it’s not accurate. Rule of thumb.)
Part II--
ReplyDeleteFriend, our perceptions of Cornerstone are going to be different. You are still there and I am not. You state that you haven’t seen this “side” of the Pitts brothers and for that I suppose we BOTH are glad you have not been subjected such --as of yet.
We have come to an impasse however. I listed several reports of False Teachings and even added a little of my witty humor (free of charge) so as to not come off offensive. But I have yet to hear a response from you or anyone else with supporting scripture to dispute our witness.
Not to mention the “Kingdom Now” Doctrine that Michael began teaching after he brought Earl Paulk on the scene. "That we will deliver the Kingdom of God in a perfected state when He returns." Scripture and verse please? This is a doctrine of demons…
At the end of the day, Cornerstone is a “One Man Show” not based on my “perception/opinion” as you say ----but based on their CHURCH STRUCTURE and THE SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS IT. You keep passing over the elephant in the room. Do you think for one minute, I would spend all this time and energy to create a blog if I didn’t have scripture to support my findings? MY “opinion” is certainly not the measuring stick here.. I am not that important. Again, WHO keeps pointing everyone back to scripture: Us or Michael? I guess that makes us "religious" right??
Perhaps you have special-immunity. And in your heart… Michael has not been placed on that pedestal after all the years you have attended. However, that does NOT somehow erase the REALITY of what’s going on week after week.
As I stated in the article:
●You are told at the door, to lay your gifts at the feet of the “set man” of the house -Not Christ.
●You were called to Cornerstone to "serve" them and not question what "that" means exactly. You are "Sons and Daughters of the House".
●When was the last time someone was trained and released to start a ministry? Or perhaps you are considered Apostolic because someone pays a "fee" to join your "Network".
●When was the last time Michael made himself available to you?
●When was the last time someone said, “Do what the Holy Spirit is telling YOU to do.”
●When was the last time you could bring scripture into their office and question their teachings?
●Janet Wendt goes around telling members that “Michael is King around here and you are the servants”. If you don’t like it…there’s the door. (Yeah, show me the money and I’ll show you where the LOVE is.)
We can agree to disagree, but Peace.. I cannot allow anyone to come onto this blog and try to justify how they’ve clearly mistreated others, just because you haven’t “witnessed it”… or so you say. But, COUNTLESS people have been lied to, discredited, manipulated, threatened with law suits, and literally cursed out on their way out, and other things that are not appropriate to put in this little box imo.
He has made himself the HEAD of that church, instead of teaching you that Christ is the head. Judge the Fruit. Jesus is calling, He wants to know if He can have HIS Churh back…can someone PLEASE pick up the phone??
Peace, I’m sure that you will have a response to justify your Michael and Robert, I remember those days. But unless you can bring scripture to refute the above… there is really nothing further for us to discuss here. This isn’t about opinions, not liking Michael anymore, or being “offended”. This is Life AFTER Cornerstone, welcome to it. It’s a lot of humility and healing as we recover from unsound doctrine and Spiritual Abuse. It isn’t always “pretty”, but it’s REAL LIFE unplugged from the Matrix.
Duly noted, thank you - I will keep it scriptural (Part I):
ReplyDeletePsalm 34:4-5 "I sought the Lord and He answered me, He delivered me from all my fears. Those who look to Him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame."
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderes nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you WERE. BUT YOU WERE WASHED, YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, YOU WERE JUSTIFIED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and by the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD"
Romans 14:12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependant on anybody." (side note...not I have never, nor will I EVER put MP on a pedastool...I reserve that spot for my Saviour...he is the ONLY MAN worthy)
Hebrews 4:12 "for the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword piercing even to the divding asunder of soul and spirit...and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
Colossians 3:15 "and let the peace of God rule in your hearts..."
Ezekiel 37:23 "I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be there God."
Scriptural (Part II):
ReplyDeleteEphesians 4:31-32 "Let all bitterness and wrath and agner and clamour and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice AND be kind to one another, tenderhearted , forgiving one another, EVEN as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Hebrews 10:25 "Let us not give up meeting togehter, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another and all the more as you see the Day approaching."
Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Chrst lives in me and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who LOVED me, and gave Himself for me."
2 Chronicles 30:9 "For the Lord your God is gracious and merciful and will not turn away His face from you, ifyou return unto Him."
1 Peter 5:6 "Humble yourselves therefore UNDER GOD'S MIGHTY HAND, that HE may lift you up in due time."
The entire chapter of Matthew 23 Jesus lamblasted the Pharisees and preched the Kingdome of God was at hand ...verse 13 "Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the Kingdom of Heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."
Luke 6:41-42 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Brother let me take the speck out of your eye' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye and then will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, alwasy perserveres, love never fails."
Plilippians 4:7 "and the peace of God which transcends ALL understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." (Thank you Jesus for being my shield)
Luke 12:48 "For unto whomsoever much is given of him shall be much required and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask more."
Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowldge Him and He shall direct your paths."
Scriptural reference of what is taught:
Giving: Malachi 3: 8-11; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Proverbs 3:9-10; Hebrews 7:8, and Luke 6:38
Healing: James 5:13-16; Matthew 4:23; Luke 9:1-2; Isaiah 53:5; and Peter 2:24
Demonic Warfare: Ephesians 6: 12-13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 1 Peter 5:8-9; and Matthew 8:31-32
1 Timothy 3 - describes a Bishop (which he has held fast to since being ordained that title)..his children are doing really well ministering and serving God (that is the fruit I see).
Finally, my friend, I serve God...He is my Source and the only KING in my life! I can't make reference to what others say or account for them. As always - Peace :)
No one should leave their church because someone convinces them that they should. You should ONLY listen to the Holy Spirit on the matter. Truly consulting him and listening to him will NOT result in hearing your pastor's voice in your head. It will however, result in you digging into your Bible with great desperation.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, this blog exists NOT to convince people who love CStone to leave. It is an aid for those that feel that the Holy Spirit is speaking to them to go.
Ticked doesn't need to defend CStone on this blog. If what Ticked believes about CStone is true, then this blog is harmless and should be ignored at best.
Also, the replies to Ticked should not be interpreted as rebuttals to Ticked's comments (although I think some replies did become personal). Replies to Ticked's comments should exist for the sake of answering questions for those the Lord is calling to leave CStone.
I just want to bring some focus back to what may be interpreted as a combative comment thread.
A note about not leaving until you have a place to go.... Not being able to leave until you have a place to go, is wrong thinking. Abram left and did not know where he was headed. In fact, rarely do we see accounts in the Bible where the full plan (or even part of the plan) was revealed to men and women. God asks us to follow step 1 before he shows us steps 2 and 3.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that.... The doctrine and experience at CStone and network churches make it difficult to assimilate into a healthy body of believers (aka your new church). This is not proof of the curse or that you really belong at CStone. It is in fact, evidence that the CStone experience is outside the norm (not in a good way).
Because it is hard to assimilate into a new body, does not excuse the need to join a new body. You will never become comfortable with something new until you commit to trying it. I've written many times that you cannot expect a CStone experience at other healthy churches. The "feeling" and the "atmosphere" are part of the dysfunction. Take away the trappings of the show and there is very little left at CStone. When you attend a healthy church, the spirit of God will definitely be there, but the emotional frenzy that you are used to will be absent. This does not mean that an emotional church experience is bad. It just means that an emotional experience does not qualify a church service as a move of God.
To those who have left and are still not attending anywhere else. Pray and then just go somewhere. If you have been gone from CStone for over 12 - 24 months and are still greatly affected by your CStone experience (i.e. cannot attend church, lifechoice problems, emotional instability) please get some professional counseling. Don't try to do life on your own.
Well said Love Villain.. thank you!
ReplyDeletePeace:
ReplyDeleteThank you for listing all the scriptures you stand for. But how do these scriptures refute what we have stated is falsely taught?
1) Spiritual Covering through a Pastor
2) $eed giving in order to receive the Word
3) Kingdom Now Doctrine
4) Grace equating to a "cover-up" for sin
5) Members are to not question their “authority” or righteously judge a matter.
6) God created Evil
7) It's ok to drink and drive and be estranged from our wives… and then justify it by telling members it's an attack....
I Tim. 3 tells us the qualifications of a Bishop/Elder: For example… they are NOT be given to drunkenness, have a good reputation in the community, not lovers of money, etc.
(Again, read the qualifications of a Bishop and that's not when the ICCC shows up and gives somebody a cross and a ring -THAT'S CATHOLICISM.)
Right from their CREED:
“The International Communion of Charismatic Churches is “CATHOLIC – wherever Jesus is present” in our conviction that the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is one Holy and Apostolic Church.“
http://www.theiccc.com/aboutUs.html
Peace,
ReplyDeleteListing a bunch of scriptures out of context to try to justify a position,behavior or doctrine of a leader is not going to cut it anymore. Again and again, 1 Timothy 3 is clear as stated above. There is a different standard for leadership throughout the NT. If you don't want to follow those standards then don't be a leader or don't call yourself something your not like a bishop. Also, can you list how many other blogs are on the internet like this for other Toledo churches (and there are alot of them)?Life After.......It is quite clear there is a big big problem at Cornerstone.
Well, here is what I did-I went searching my concordances and the net and here is what I found:
ReplyDelete1) There is actually NO scriptural reference to Pastors being a spiritual covering. In fact, when I searched the web I found just the opposite and that the teaching of spiritual covering was considered spiritual abuse.
2) Seed giving - interesting again, I did NOT find scripture references on that but did find:
Galatians 3:14: "He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through CHRIST JESUS, so that by FAITH we might receive the promise of the Spirit."
1 Peter 3:9 "Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing."
Romans 4:16 "Therefore, the promise comes by FAITH, so that it may be by grace and may be GUARANTEED to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the FAITH of Abraham. He is the father of us all"
3.) Yes I went further into my research and actually found interesting info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_theology and http://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-now.html (this is what was under the search: Kingdom Now theology is another in a long line false, unbiblical, and misleading ..nobody has anything nice to say about Kingdom Now theology.
4.) Grace covers...Romans 5:19-21 (New King James Version)19 "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
5.) I do not give MP authority over me...I serve God.
6.) God did create evil...•I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
•Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV
7.) Malachi 2:16 "I hate divorce, says the Lord god of Israel"
Matthew 5:31-31 and 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 both basically say to stay married or be reconciled or only divorce due to adultery. I don't agree with divorce...I am 110% against it!
Again, much to think about. No life changing decisions overnight. But there are some sound scriptural doctrine and other doctrine quite the opposite. Until next time, Peace my friend! Peace!
@Peace
ReplyDelete"Anon @ 8:58AM - I will pray for you because WOW...I hope my life transgressions aren't remembered and blasted for all to see and I am very THANKFUL Jesus died for me and HIS blood WASHES me clean."
Yes, Jesus did - and I am thankful too. Very much so. And as I said, the details aren't important -- but as our Spiritual Leader - who even refers to himself as POPPA... he is responsible for his flock. He has a special and consecrated role with FAR MORE RESPONSIBILITY than you or I. Claiming to be a victim when faced with their own actions is the same as God appealing to Adam who basically said, "It's HER fault - YOU created her!"
And DO pray for me - as I pray for you. I also suggest you reading up on 12 step programs and other recovery programs to understand where I am coming from. From what you write, you do not.
God does not want any of us to be a door mat - even Bishop. This isn't about making him a doormat, it's about asking him to be a responsible Shepard. When my father gets arrested and cries because he is facing jail time - which takes him away from family, affects money coming in, affects friends and family - do I, as a member of that family ignore it? Do I forget all about it? Or do I let it go, keeping in mind we are human and deal with the issues.
I chose letting go but DEALING.
"The "special" meeting was NOT for the "select"...it was for those who serve in ministry EVERYONE in a ministry was invited...so I truly did see his repentant heart and YES he did take a break and went to get help from yes HIS pastor..."
EVERYONE in a ministry was invited - what about the rest of the congregation? He went to see TD Jakes. And the change came where? I admit -- I think I saw a hint of transparency for a while. People do fall of the wagon. As a family member, I do have the right to walk away. I also have the right to tell the truth about the situation.
He did not repent for drinking and driving. I am suspect of the tears. Many rapists cry. Many incestuous fathers cry - they never meant to hurt anyone, after all. Which is usually TRUE. But that doesn't mean that they do not need help. That does not mean that family members will ignore everything.
"NONE OF MY BUSINESS...that is between MP and God to get right." Yes - and No. Your business as a member of the family. HOW MP turns his life around = HIS JOURNEY. Putting your head in the sand does no one any good. Him or You.
Someone said above (actually a few I believe) - it's a relationship. The corporate HOUSE implies a FAMILY connected by the BLOOD. Poppa hurts inside and needs a shoulder, a boost up, support - but he is also responsible to allow his family to SEE his repentance.
All of this is impossible because of all the secrets that are being kept.
Peace -
ReplyDeletePS. I love the scriptures. Are there any about repentance and what that means? I can scripturally support everything I have pointed out. In fact, I can post an entire series preached on it. In fact, I can post hundreds of Christian references, sermons and testimonies.
God's work requires action on my part. We are all to remain vigilant. We are to turn our thoughts and actions around.
The log in my eye is HUGE. I have been walking the walk for longer than you have been at the stone. The pointing out of Bishop's shortfalls are perhaps a bit hypocritical on my part. One finger at them and three at me, as they say. At the same time, I cannot see living in denial. In fact, I cannot afford to live in denial. My life depends on it.
I know how active addicts behave. I know how recovering addicts behave. I usually know where I fall in the continuum. Do you?
Now, let's all behave.
Well, I am back. After reading everyone's comments, digesting them, praying & studying some of the scriptures and info shared here, I find myself in a diificult place. However,I know from the many comments here, I am in good company.
ReplyDeleteI know what the Word requires of me. I realize Michael may speak some truth, but truth mixed with any hint of false doctrine still makes it wrong in God's sight according to His Word. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. And no matter how good I might feel after a message that seems on track with the Word, it doesn't negate the big picture of what has been going on with the leadership of the house.
I wish I could talk to Bishop or someone about how I feel, but I know it will do no good. As others have said, and even I know what I have seen at times, if I am honest, not much is going to change. They don't see anything wrong or maybe they just want to keep up with appearances.
I came to Cornerstone a short time after the 2nd drunk driving arreat. A friend invited me & told me Michael was just being harrassed and tried by the enemy for his next level. What did I know about anything? I feel somewhat hoodwinked and misled. I'm angry as well. I wonder how Michael or Robert live with themselves. How can they just go on business as usual and not have the decency to be honest with us about things going on now. I think we could handle it & not that we need all the dirty details about things, just some honesty. At least I haven't been there for as long as most of you were there. Perhaps it will make it easier to leave because right now, I feel that is what I must do.
Please pray for me as I feel right now that I will be gone by the end of the month. I don't want to get sucked in any farther than I am. I don't know where I'll go, but I just have to trust that in time and with faith, God will lead me.
To Unsure:
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU for scrolling through all of our recent comments and taking the time to update us! It is a blessing to know that we were able to help you (if even in the slightest way) just by offering our prayers and allowing you a place to process your decision.
So glad to see that you are coming through friend! Clearly you have a humble and obedient heart.. and therefore I am confident that wherever your path leads --you WILL go on to LIVE OUT God’s purpose and calling upon your life! For God is the judge who putteth down one, and lifteth up another. So it is best to hear what the King is saying and obey His voice accordingly. This is why the scriptures tell us that the FEAR OF THE LORD (not man) is the beginning of wisdom. Without proper reverence for Christ, how can we be open to clearly hear the voice of His Counsel…
Please know that we will continue to pray for you as you follow the steps that the Lord Himself, has ordered for you.
If you haven’t already done so:
My advice is to seek out a solid Christian friend (not affiliated with Cornerstone) and talk with them about your journey forward. As I said in some of the older articles… there will be a lot to sort through. There will be some things that were “good”, put them in the keep pile. And the things that were unhealthy and unscriptural, let them go and give them to God. Be patient in all things, as the Holy Spirit will take you on a journey of sorting through everything little by little. That process is truly liberating and will do nothing but make you stronger! Hold onto your Precious Lessons Learned… they are priceless. Over time you will get through this, you will forgive and in the end YOU will be better for it!
Be thankful.. for the Hand of the Living God kept you; sometimes even from more than we are able to realize at times.
In typing this reply to you, this scripture came to me:
Psalm 57:
1 Have MERCY on me, my God, have mercy on me,
for in you I take refuge.
I will take refuge in the shadow of your wings
until the disaster has passed.
2 I cry out to God Most High,
to God, who vindicates me.
3 He sends from heaven and saves me,
rebuking those who hotly pursue me—
God sends forth his love and his faithfulness.
4 I am in the midst of lions;
I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts—
men whose teeth are spears and arrows,
whose tongues are sharp swords.
5 Be exalted, O God, above the heavens;
let your glory be over all the earth.
6 They spread a net for my feet—
I was bowed down in distress.
They dug a pit in my path—
but they have fallen into it themselves.
7 My heart, O God, is steadfast,
my HEART IS STEADFAST;
I will sing and make music.
8 Awake, my soul!
Awake, harp and lyre!
I will awaken the dawn.
9 I will praise you, Lord, among the nations;
I will sing of you among the peoples.
10 For great is your love, reaching to the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies.
11 Be exalted, O God, above the heavens;
let your glory be over all the earth.
In regards to the “Evil” of Isaiah 45:7
ReplyDeleteKJV reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did NOT create evil?
There are (2) key facts that need to be considered:
1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil (sin), and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, (due to the conflict of other scripture) it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral “evil” into existence.
2) The CONTEXT of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something OTHER THAN “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and PUNISHING ISRAEL FOR DISOBEDIENCE. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.”
So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is telling us that God causes calamity to come upon those who rebel against Him. Within context of this scripture, he was referring to Israel.
There is a difference between the “evil” of judgment (brought on by calamity/distress) and EVIL of sin.
So what is your point Speaking Truth in Love?
ReplyDeleteAre you just splitting hairs with MP’s teaching series that “God created Evil”??
Quoting Charles Spurgeon: “Discernment is NOT knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and ALMOST RIGHT.” selah
You have to ask yourself these questions:
●WHAT would motivate a Pastor to suddenly declare that “God created Evil” after over 20 yrs. of Pastoring?
●WHY would a Pastor boldly teach?: “God is in CONTROL of the evil things in your life, because He AUTHORED them.” What???? (Try explaining that repulsive “theology” to a sexual assault victim.)
Looking at the CORRECT interpretation of Scripture:
●If you are using Isaiah 45 as your scriptural basis to support that “God created evil”. Then you would have to say that the current evil (calamity) being experienced, could only have come from a RESULT of your own REBELLION against God.
Let’s go back to the beginning:
God gave every being with free will…
●LUCIFER: “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Your heart BECAME proud on account of your beauty, and YOU corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.” (Ezek. 28)
●PRIDE was FOUND in the heart of Lucifer… that was his choice as a result of his rebellion against God. If you say that God created “evil”, then you would have to say that God created “Pride” as well. Because EVIL is a RESULT of (sin) pride that is found in the heart first. “Pride cometh BEFORE a fall.”
**On the other hand, SUCH TEACHING WORKS VERY WELL for those who are seeking an excuse to explain “why” they are experiencing current “adversity”. (Such as divorce, arrests, people speaking out against them, etc.)
“Well, since God created evil [that situation]… then it can’t be our fault… because I just preached to you that GOD is the AUTHOR of IT.”
Could it just be that the “adversity” you are going through, is a result of the evil that YOU CREATED by disobeying his Word? (Again, this is another example of talking out BOTH sides of your mouth.)
Thank you for your patience as I try to wrap this up without writing a short novel on the topic...)
ReplyDeleteWe can all testify that God CAN use bad circumstances and STILL work them out for our good –even when WE make poor choices. Of course, this can ONLY happen if we FIRST ADMIT our sins, take responsibility, and seek forgiveness. Hello somebody.
●On the other hand, declaring that the “adversity” originated from Him as a means to “justify/explain” ---is another thing! That is DECEPTIVE DOCTRINE filled with EMPTY TALK (fair speeches that accomplish nothing) according to Paul. Who btw.. calls them out in Timothy as FALSE TEACHERS that need to be SILENCED by:
1) Exhorting Sound Doctrine and
2) Refuting those who contradict.
This is WHY a Bishop is one who is "holding fast the faithful word". So.. guess what? If you are unrepentantly doing so, you are not qualified to be a Bishop/Elder and are hijacking the platform. I don’t care if you have 10 purple robes, crosses, and rings and travel around the world making Pitt-stops at every church who bows to your charismatic gifts and ability to work a crowd into a frenzy.
For how could God reach into himself and create something that did not (nor COULD NOT) exist nor originate within Himself? GOD DID NOT CREATE EVIL. Has it really come to this??
Evil has no existence of its own… it is not a "thing" -you can't have a jar of evil. Rather, evil is a manifested state of being that is a RESULT of the ABSENCE OF GOOD. It manifests through SIN/REBELLION. As I stated above… it was FOUND when Lucifer rebelled, not CREATED within Lucifer. (God did not create anything with an "evil" element waiting to "manifest" like a ticking alarm clock.)
If I were to ask "does cold exist?" -answer would likely be yes. However, that is incorrect. Cold cannot exist in and of itself. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness is the absence of light. Likewise, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only ALLOW for the absence of good.
(1 Timothy 4:4) For everything God created is good....
For those who are interested:
ReplyDeleteWe have a visitor from East London, South Africa who just posted a comment under the “Exodus out of Egypt” article.
Here is his comment:
Allan (SA) said...
“My dear fellow Brothers (Family) in Christ. I ended up reading this blog or part thereof because of a sermon I heard tonight (20 March 2011) at a church in East London, South Africa by Bishop Pitts. I could not resist the unrest in my spirit about the none-Biblical teaching that I heart. That’s how I ended up reading the blog and some info on the Bishop.
In reading Sonlight 29’s writing, I could have written my own story, but it would be a replica of S29’s writing.
I want to conclude by the following. I once spoke to by 81 year old father who has been a minister in a Pentecostal/charismatic church in South Africa and I really honour him for being a shepherd of sheep in mostly smaller (200-400+) churches. In our conversation, I said to him that I will never ever put anyone, including him between myself and a relationship with God. We were all supposed to be co-workers in the gospel of Jesus Christ (1Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building). My Dad agreed.
There are many preachers that I honour in the ministry as well as simple sincere and dear brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, but never again will I put any of them on a pedestal or eat their teachings up as the true Gospel.
I agree with the writer to hear from God. My wilderness experience lasted for a long time and I went through a similar experience realising the truth of the Word in Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.”
March 20, 2011 4:47 PM
Allan(SA),
ReplyDeleteThank you for your courage in responding on this blog. We have all faced the wilderness upon leaving Cornerstone & realizing that we had put man on a pedestal before the truth of God's Word. But, when you are caught up in a system with a man who preaches so strongly you lose sight of your personal relationship with Jesus and replace it with a relationship with a church and a man, who has always been uplifted by visiting ministry as the anointed one for this generation who has unique revelation, and is "leaving a footprint" across the world spiritually.
However, God has a way of allowing things to happen so that the real truth surfaces and we begin to look more closely at a man we have put on a spiritual pedestal. And if we are honest and follow the unrest we feel in hearts and begin to examine "truth" & "revealation" unique to a man, in light of God's Word, the truth of the Word will outshine inerrant teaching and preaching.
When a man's personal revelation becomes unique & begins to contradict scripture, it is cause for concern. Those who continue to ignore and minimize the untruths and the behavior of a spiritual leader are in spiritual danger for what is on the head does flow down and impacts the entire body.
I wonder if you would be willing to share what you heard that has caused you unrest in your spirit. What was the non-bilbical teaching that gave you cause for concern enough to visit this blog? We would love to dialogue with you about it.
Thank you again and may God's peace be yours.
Perhaps now others who question this blog and former "disgruntled" members will see that the blog author is speaking the truth in love thanks to Allan(SA).
ReplyDeleteWhat a testimony by a man thousands of miles away who has also seen the false teaching of Michael Pitts in action.
Those yet in doubt need to get a clue and see that it is a spirit that has attached itself to Michael and it ain't the Holy Spirit. He is deceived and under the control of a demonic influence.
We need to pray that he sees the light and repents of his ways.
i walked away in 2001.. it took me about 4 months to do so. but here's why i did leave. i felt ill every time i was in the building, i felt like i was being shamed for a job that i took to raise my family (i was a waitress in the oldest steakhouse in toledo) because i served alcohol. and yes, that was actually said. i was told by pitts himself when i waited on him. i just felt like nothing i could ever do would be good enough for them. i never ever went back. funny thing.. a few months after leaving, guess who came in and sat in my section? thats right mp himself. i never said anything to him to identify myself as a former cult member. but he ordered alot of wine.. (like 2 or 3 bottles for 4 people) and he was really mean to his wife. he told her what to order ect.. (what he said implied that she didnt need fried food or dessert, maybe just a salad.. and the tip wasnt great by the way). i was so thankful that i was out of that place, and that i had my kids out of there when they were young enough to not remember any of it. and the next time i saw the "bishop" was at toledo express airport. never in my life did i expect this.... i was in the parking lot putting my bag into my car and i heard a man yelling. so i looked around the back of my car and it was him yelling at his wife kathi. i couldnt really hear what he was yelling about, but then he grabbed her arm and yanked her toward their car. i still pray for her. it has been along time that i have been gone from there and it was never anything like they said it would be. my life has gotten better with every year that passes. i thank GOD daily that mp sat in my section and was so harsh toward me, because if he hadnt maybe i would still be buying into that crap. and yes, most everyone who i thought was my friend from there never talked to me again.. but i guess thats ok. i would rather know who loves me for me, not bc we go to the same building on sunday. i have one friend who still goes there, and she is an amazing person who outshines all of the dirt that goes on there. and its clear that she loves the lord, but she loves ppl that dont love mp as well.
ReplyDeletesometimes i am bitter over my experiences there, but usually im just grateful. i learned alot from questioning what i heard there, so maybe i needed to hear it to form the questions. i do believe that people reap what they sow. but not in the typical cs way. and when its time to pay the piper, i hope the pitts are ready.
Can anyone help me? I am still looking for a blog like this online that was posted regarding the other Toledo Bishops and Pastors that teach false doctrine and milk people for their hard earned cash. It's sad that with the thousands of posts and testimonies here of numerous LEADERS that have left Cornerstone over the years and been treated like a piece of trash from the Pitts Bros, that people still try to rationalize the "good" things that are supposedly done here by this place and stick around for more fleecing.What happily ever after stated above is not surprising at all. Not at all.How DBanks lives with himself seeing all this crazy stuff is beyond me. How can you really care for people to watch them constantly taken advantage of every week? $$$
ReplyDeleteI am not a member or someone who attends Cornerstone. However, I know people who go there and have been watching online from time to time. I have considered attending there as my friends & family keep trying to get me to go there with them. I just keep saying, I'm going to watch online. I just have never felt quite right about going there.
ReplyDeleteWell, I have since stumbled upon this blog by looking up Cornerstone. Needless to say, i have been amazed at all that I have read. I have heard things through the years from people I work with and the crazy rumors. But, to hear things from former members and not just a few, but many, many former members is well - shocking.
And to read the post above it is really very sad.I feel sorry for Michael Pitts's wife. I have heard and read that Robert's wife finally separated from him. After reading all of this, I wonder if Michael's wife will ever have the guts to leave him. She needs to, but I sure he has to save face and won't allow her to. i mean if he's yelling at her in public and yanking her around, what does he do in private?
I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I just wanted to share. I haven't even gone there, but I certainly now know I never will. This blog has helped me make up my mind even more.
Thank you to the blog author for this very informative blog.
@ Anonymous 2:40 PM,
ReplyDeleteI don't know about any other blog except Toledo Talks. But, I can answer how DBanks and all of the other supposed pastors live with themselves. They are simply in way too deep & idolize both the Pitts Bros and Cornerstone and they all think that Cornerstone is the best and only anointed church in town with revelation that nobody else has, which is scary in & of itself. I am quite sure that David Koresh was teaching his own brand of revelation from the Bible as was Jim Jones. You all know how well they ended up.
The "pastors" at Cornerstone all suffer from the same delusion about Michael and are all puffed up in pride. Jeffrey Smith was on a real ranting roll on Sunday to let all of us "back stabbers" out here and all of us trying to pick them off one by one and trying to shut them down know that God is for them, so who can be against them??? Well, sure God is for all of us. It doesn't take us bad "backstabbers" out here to do them in; it's their own pride and lascivious behavior that is doing it for them. And God will allow it because it's called natural consequences.
And I got news for Jeffrey and all of the pep leaders at Cornerstone, you are not untouchable. You are not exempt from life and stuff that happens whether you are a christian or not. Being a christian does not mean it is all sunshine and roses. God can be for us, but He does not condone bad behavior and it does not minimize the sin in our lives and make it ok because He is for us.
And news flash, Michael knows better and so does Robert, and they can keep all the window dressing out there they want, but at the end of the day, they must live with themselves. And why do you suppose Michael treats Kathy the way he does?? Listen carefully to his harsh words toward others when he has an axe to grind. That is what is in his heart. He is not a warm fuzzy man. He is driven by the demons that reside with him, as is Robert. And the rest of the "pastors" are merely under the influence of their demons, and as Michael always likes to say, like spirits attract like spirits. What he says about all of us out here applies to them in there - same principles. They are not exempt.
And that my friend is how DBanks and all of the other "pastors" can stand by and watch good people be used and abused. However, at some point those people need to stop being doormats, wake up and smell the coffee and run from the kool-aid.
A few Bible facts:
ReplyDeleteGod is not for you using the Bible to manipulate people to control them and hoard money for yourself to live a lavish life of materialism.
He is not giving his stamp of approval to those who self promote themselves but fail to live up to the standards of that title.
He is not blessing the false hope messages and prophecies. It is of the flesh and not His Spirit.
No one is trying to shut anything down. It is already spiritually shut down because of false doctrines. We are just trying to be here for people who are enlightened to the reality of what is taking place.
Fact, Pride comes before THE FALL. If your full of pride and won't listen to God speaking through people to warn you of your ways, then you WILL FALL eventually. It's not if, it's when.
The question is do you want to be there when it happens?
... I believe the above comment sums it up well.
ReplyDeleteAllow me to give a final analogy:
For those who have never ridden a MOTORCYCLE,
FEAR and INTIMIDATION are always going to face you until you make a decision.
But in order for you to discover all that awaits you on the OPEN ROAD, you will have to overcome your fear of the unknown.. and just jump onto the bike.
For until you can--
A) TRUST Him without knowing “where” the open road will take you
-and-
B) Trust your own ability to “handle” what you have not previously been tested on…. You will remain on the side of the road and never have the courage to take off on your bike.
And you will never be able to fully display the skill level of your capabilities.
◘Let go of your FEARS and embrace the discovery of what you were made for! For LIFE after is… WAITING only upon YOU