After discussing the larger scale “problems” that have eroded the power and witness of our modern-day Charismatic churches, I thought it would be appropriate to begin dialoguing and provoking thoughts on SOLUTIONS. As I am sure many of you have already been spending time on the very subject. I would love to hear your thoughts as well.
The Church... ONE Body of the redeemed in Christ,
assembled throughout the world, testified in countless voices.
assembled throughout the world, testified in countless voices.
As powerful and glorious as it all sounds (and it is), yet finding UNITY within this supernatural body of people has increasingly become such a difficult piece of the puzzle. Why? We know that other religions have various “branches” of the same faith, but shouldn’t more be expected from those who are sealed and filled with the very Spirit of the Living God? If we have the power to lay hands on the sick and cast out devils, surely it should be a “piece of cake” for modern day Christians to simply unify… to come together as one voice, right?? Well, I think we all know the answer to that one... history answers this question with a resounding no. In fact it seems the further we are from our humble roots, the further we get away from UNITY -even with modern day technology at our side. But should this really be the case?
Before we go any further, allow me to preface:
In no way is this article meant to diminish or dilute in anyway what the Church has accomplished over the years.. for many lives have been changed and transformed with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Overall, I believe that the Church has certainly progressed, but unity within the Body has remained stagnant at best. Some would even argue that it has increasingly declined. So what’s the problem? We have bigger buildings, more programs, nicer platforms, but no more UNITY than the local VFW! Lots of talk about “moving forward”, but really going no where as far as making a lasting impact on the culture of a generation OUTSIDE the church walls. In fact, it even seems at times that the very “idea of unity” itself is nothing more than a desert mirage, being chased by the young minds of every passing generation.
But should this "news flash" really come as a surprise?
If you keep pushing the same button, how are you going to expect a different result? Or rather if you keep pushing the wrong button, how do you expect to produce the right result?
If you keep pushing the same button, how are you going to expect a different result? Or rather if you keep pushing the wrong button, how do you expect to produce the right result?
A majority of our problem in the Body of Christ is that most leaders are more committed to their PET DOCTRINES and CULTURAL TRADITIONS than they are to the overall spiritual condition of the Church! Not to mention those who have gotten "lost" seeking after that first "high" they hit on the pipe of Charismania Stardom... How do you go from preaching against the religious practices of Catholicism, to dressing just like them? Does your “title”, "collar" and "ring"... make you more holy? Perhaps producing "material appearances" of spiritual fruit is easier than producing transformed hearts. "O BROTHER, where art thou?"
Today's average believer will typically find themselves following one or the other:
Leadership A)
Believes unity in the Body of Christ simply cannot be accomplished until Jesus returns.
Leadership A)
Believes unity in the Body of Christ simply cannot be accomplished until Jesus returns.
Leadership B)
Decrees it will be accomplished as we progressively “take dominion” over the systems of the world… delivering the Kingdom to Christ when he returns.
I am firmly persuaded that NONE of the above are correct.
Imagine the Church as a Building:
Christ laying the foundation as the Cornerstone and the Apostles beginning with the Acts of the New Testament building upon that and so on and so forth until today. If each generation does not effectively finish their portion of the "wall", the next generation will have to pick up where they left off. Not to mention those who have erected a faulty wall and left it behind as an inheritance for their children to correct. God forbid we continue to wander in the same section of the wilderness for 40 years!! How frustrating is it to be stuck and "indefinitely stopped" on the job with no movement and no power in solving the source for the delay?! Could it be the problem lies with the LABORERS?? and possibly their ability to COMMUNICATE the same "MESSAGE"... hmmm... Tower of Babel anyone? What is it that we are REALLY trying to build here??
WHERE ARE THE NEHEMIAHS OF TODAY?
Those who SEE the spiritual condition of the walls of the Church and are moved enough to DO something about it...
I submit to you that Unity is possible, but it will never manifest in a "Tower" of our own fleshly agendas. And certainly NOT when all groups come together under the guise of fleshly leadership, seed-faith prosperity gospel, revival, or any other latest fade “movements”. In fact why would God want to “revive” anything that is not working??
Matt. 9: 37, 38 “Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to SEND OUT workers INTO his harvest field [world].”
"O BROTHER, where art thou?"
My question is: Does a field of harvest, harvest itself? Why then do the majority of churches WAIT for the lost to find their way into the building?? This “button” is not working. Worse yet, some of us workers continue to passively sit in churches that we KNOW are filled with unrepented sin and fleshly agendas. Can such FRUIT produce an atmosphere of holiness and truth that would even be able to SUSTAIN new believers? If leadership is still bound to sexual sin and addiction themselves, how then are they able to free anyone else? Not to mention, how quickly new members are ordered to stand in the line of obedience and submission to the "spiritual covering" of a Man. And we all know if you are without THEIR covering, "they are vessels without lids, bastards, unclean..." Really? No wonder the world doesn't take our message serious, we "sound" JUST like them. Does our "Good News" really have the power to change or not?
Church... it's PAST TIME to wake up and get BACK to the authentic message of the Cross. THE HARVEST IS READY AND WAITING! In fact the Church needs to stop saying "we are waiting on God for a move" –HE IS WAITING UPON US.
My question is: Does a field of harvest, harvest itself? Why then do the majority of churches WAIT for the lost to find their way into the building?? This “button” is not working. Worse yet, some of us workers continue to passively sit in churches that we KNOW are filled with unrepented sin and fleshly agendas. Can such FRUIT produce an atmosphere of holiness and truth that would even be able to SUSTAIN new believers? If leadership is still bound to sexual sin and addiction themselves, how then are they able to free anyone else? Not to mention, how quickly new members are ordered to stand in the line of obedience and submission to the "spiritual covering" of a Man. And we all know if you are without THEIR covering, "they are vessels without lids, bastards, unclean..." Really? No wonder the world doesn't take our message serious, we "sound" JUST like them. Does our "Good News" really have the power to change or not?
Church... it's PAST TIME to wake up and get BACK to the authentic message of the Cross. THE HARVEST IS READY AND WAITING! In fact the Church needs to stop saying "we are waiting on God for a move" –HE IS WAITING UPON US.
John 17:20-23 “My prayer is not for them alone [believers]. I pray also for those who will believe in me through THEIR MESSAGE, that all of them may be ONE, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be ONE as we are one —I in them and you in me— so that they may be brought to complete UNITY. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
We clearly see in the above scripture that UNITY is found when:
Our Core Message becomes UNIFIED. Notice I did not say when our "cultural or denominational differences" become the same or "one". But rather UNITY in the Body comes when we keep the Gospel of Jesus Christ at the HEARTBEAT of our cause. THIS MISSION should be the driving force behind all that we do... our main purpose for assembling every week. This will also safeguard us from placing too much emphasis on teachings that should remain in the "backseat" instead of front and center.
If we veer away from the Message of the Cross and the Power of the Resurrection, how will the world know that OUR MESSAGE is The ONLY Way? Are we of the same GLORY as the Father gave the Son?? Are we of their UNITY in Purpose, Mind, and View?? Has such LOVE persuaded us to forsake all and pick up our cross? Are we truly BUILDING THE BODY for ministry and MAKING DISCIPLES??
It seems to me that the modern-day American Church (at large) is increasingly emphasizing everything BUT the message of the Gospel. Simply throwing the name "Jesus" on at the end of a sermon, doesn't fil the bill. Almost like an after thought... Oh, here's a bone, come forward and give Jesus a try, He came to calm the storms and make it your best life now! Then you've got the sensationalist gospel stars in the other corner... Be sure to sow that $eed covenant partners, you must "release" it in order to receive "this word". Money, cometh! Lord help us! There is so much emphasis on everything else... no wonder the world is confused! How can an unbeliever even distinguish what Our Message is, when there's 10 different "voices" pushing 10 different agendas? Not to mention taking the confusion to a whole new level, by broadcasting it to the world as "Christian TV"... need I say more?
My brothers and sisters, we can no longer afford to turn a blind eye. Do you not perceive the spiritual condition of our generation? Do you not notice the hour is getting later and later?? Are you too busy waiting for YOUR next breakthrough to notice that even our own are anemic and sick from a poor spiritual diet?? We must once again carry a “Nehemiah Burden” for the spiritual condition of the walls of the church. What has become of our message? Our pulpits must once again be filled with an aguish of burden for the lost and preaching the Gospel at any cost. Let us return to building upon our FOUNDATION. Is there not a cause?
If we veer away from the Message of the Cross and the Power of the Resurrection, how will the world know that OUR MESSAGE is The ONLY Way? Are we of the same GLORY as the Father gave the Son?? Are we of their UNITY in Purpose, Mind, and View?? Has such LOVE persuaded us to forsake all and pick up our cross? Are we truly BUILDING THE BODY for ministry and MAKING DISCIPLES??
We repackage prosperity, redemption, grace, justification, sanctification, and atonement to the point that there is no distinct difference between our “message” and that of the "world."
It seems to me that the modern-day American Church (at large) is increasingly emphasizing everything BUT the message of the Gospel. Simply throwing the name "Jesus" on at the end of a sermon, doesn't fil the bill. Almost like an after thought... Oh, here's a bone, come forward and give Jesus a try, He came to calm the storms and make it your best life now! Then you've got the sensationalist gospel stars in the other corner... Be sure to sow that $eed covenant partners, you must "release" it in order to receive "this word". Money, cometh! Lord help us! There is so much emphasis on everything else... no wonder the world is confused! How can an unbeliever even distinguish what Our Message is, when there's 10 different "voices" pushing 10 different agendas? Not to mention taking the confusion to a whole new level, by broadcasting it to the world as "Christian TV"... need I say more?
There is NO distinct UNITY in our Churches, because we have lost
PASSION in UNIFYING for the heartbeat of our Cause.
My brothers and sisters, we can no longer afford to turn a blind eye. Do you not perceive the spiritual condition of our generation? Do you not notice the hour is getting later and later?? Are you too busy waiting for YOUR next breakthrough to notice that even our own are anemic and sick from a poor spiritual diet?? We must once again carry a “Nehemiah Burden” for the spiritual condition of the walls of the church. What has become of our message? Our pulpits must once again be filled with an aguish of burden for the lost and preaching the Gospel at any cost. Let us return to building upon our FOUNDATION. Is there not a cause?
Excellent,thought provoking article. I have often thought about this very thing myself. What has happened to the Body of Christ in proclaiming Christ and Him alone as the center of our message?
ReplyDeleteHow has the modern charismatic church gone so far astray? The prosperity gospel is disheartening at best. Look what a name it has given to the church by outsiders looking in and wondering if all those mega churches are about is money?? I mean after all, what message have we preached that has givne them that impression of the church today??
Sow your seed, get your blessing, reap favor and jobs and promotions & anything else your flesh desires. God will supply our need, not our wants. The prosperity preachers (bishops) have perverted the gospel and it is no wonder Islam is growing faster than christianity. At least they pray 5 times a day to their god. We on the other hand thrown token offerings at our God and act as if He is a genie in a bottle who if we rub Him the right way, we will get what we want because we did all the right things and sat in a church under an "anointed" covering, the "set" man of the house wherever that is in the Word of God.
How sad that the modern day mega charismania church has become a giant pep assembly to entertain and pump up the saints for the next big offering rather than let people just be still and hear from God for themselves simply because they know He is God and not the preacher/bishop/apostle of the house.
Indeed, we have confused the unbeliever as to what the true unadulterated message of the Cross is - Christ crucified for our sins to save us from a life apart from Him throughout eternity. He wants to fellowship with us, but we must first tell a lost and dying world that it requires us giving our hearts to Him for none other than the fact that He was crucified, shed His blood and died so that we could be free from our sin and selfishness and become more like Him, not more like the money worshipping, materialistic, me centered, has to feel good all the time culture we live in.
Speaking Truth in Love, thank you for this thought provoking much needed article. We are living in dark and deceptive times. The true church needs to arise and like Jonah declare that it is time to repent, and turn our hearts back to Christ and Him alone, not levels, blessings, anointings, protocols,or religious garb to make us appear holy and special and set apart.
May Jesus be the one and only message we preach!
Seek first the kingdom of God and all of His righteousness, not stuff or power or positions or fame or money and all these things shall be added unto you...the things you have need of that those in this passage worried over - food, drink and clothing. Jesus told them: Therefore, do not worry saying, "What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or What shall we wear? For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows you have need of all these things.
ReplyDeleteHow twisted the modern day prosperity gospel has become. New Years Eve $1000 one deal, one day, one door messages...christian lined up seeking things to make them looked more blessed and prosperous as if that is what God cares about. He cares about our hearts and the sin in our lives, not who is the most gifted, the most prosperous as if that counts for something in the kingdom of God. If it did, then it surely leaves out a whole lot of unprosperous people who are laid off and hurting and could use a hand up from the prosperous mega churches of today who heap riches upon themselves for their lavish circuit preaching, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours lifestyles. Paula White, Eddie Long, TD Jakes, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland (how many private jets do you need), and on and on it goes in the so called Body of Christ today, all the while we have mothers who struggle to feed and clothe their children.
Ah but yes, the glorious mega church doesn't have time for such faithless souls who sow meager seeds. I wonder what Jesus would say if He were alive in the mega churches of today??
I think Jesus would be sick to His stomach at what His church has become. Scratch that, I think He is sick to His stomach.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, we all need to really look at what we believe and why, who we believe in and why and just fall on our faces before our Holy God, ask for forgivenes for all of our seeking of things and just let Him be the leader of all we do.
I think with all the prosperity on one side and the poverty on the other, we look at each other and feel less than so we try to aspire to get what the haves have, forgetting we have the most valuable thing of all time, our Jesus.
Really, who cares what car you drive, who notices you or what things one has? If you open your mouth and venom comes out rather than the love of Jesus toward another, does the car help?
We all as christians have perpetuated this and we are all guilty on some level. We just need to remember that we have all come in under the blood and stand at the feet of Jesus right next to everyone else.
Amen & Amen Just Tired!
ReplyDeleteWow, we are in a sad state of affairs in the church. How did the prosperity gospel become the forefront of the message of God's Word in church megadom today? As Jack Van Impe said today, the apostate preachers are on the rise and many have sold out the gospel for 30 pieces of silver. I am sure God is both grieved and sick, hoping that someone in leadership in the church today will rise up and come forward and rebuke these preachers, pastors, bishops etc. who have watered down the gospel and the message of salvation and have replaced it with their pet doctrines whatever they might be.
The message of church today should be Christ and Him crucified. We need to get back to the blood of Jesus and the power that it brings. All of this periphery doctrine about blessings and anointings and levels and christians taking dominion need to take a back seat.
It is time for the church of today to repent and turn from their wicked deceptive ways, starting with the leadership on down. We are to look to Jesus, not man and his "anointed revelatory" messages that seek to build them and their kingdoms while neglecting the real things of God and His Word.
In a nutshell, if you do not know sound doctrine i.e. the doctrine of Christ and Him crucified and do not search out the Word for yourself, you will be open to every wind of false doctrine and the beguilement of the apostate preachers who tickle the itching ears of blind sheep.
Let us pray for the restoration of sound doctrine and the Cross of Christ as the center of all that we do and believe.
Jack Van Impe should be looking in the mirror when he talks about Apostates. That guy has had more missed prophecies then I care to count and does nothing but talk about "end times" and the mark of the beast over and over and over.
ReplyDeleteHis mailers that he sends to the vulnerable are nothing but manipulation to get money to support his spaced out program.
Wow, what a hypocrite.
Back to the subject. The Church today has been perverted by Mammon. Plain and simple. When you take out bank loans to build Babylonian brick towers then your focus becomes making the note payment every month not ministering to people.
No worries. God knows how to handle the towers of Babylon.
Looking to Jesus...
ReplyDelete" I am hoping someone in leadership will rise up and rebuke these leaders?"
That doesn't work. There are thousands of people who have stood up. Just go to Amazon and see all the books written about this mess not to mention blogs like these.
You know why Eddie Long is still getting checks and still spewing his trash from the pulpit every week?
BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT PAY THESE GUYS NEED TO WALK OUT OF THE BUILDING!
We empower them to get up there every Sunday and financially rape us in exchange for a pie in the sky promise...
It won't ever change until people "GET IT".
LEAVE NOW. Don't pray about things that are CLEAR in scripture. God will not tell you to stay or pray when His WORD says FLEE.
Common Sense folks.
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI see your point and agree… it will stop when people stop $upporting it. But how is that going to happen if no one speaks out to EXPLAIN WHY they should stop supporting it? You have to remember, these people have been WELL TRAINED to interpret the very scriptures that keep them there. They are also hyped up on weekly “revelation” that causes them to minimize the need for personal weekly devotion of scripture.
Paul wrote to Titus to instruct him how to deal with false teachers:
“Therefore, REBUKE THEM SHARPLY, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.” --Titus 1:13
Paul also sharply REBUKED Peter publically for his public hypocrisy. So I would have to disagree with you, PUBLIC REBUKE is what frees people from false teachers or at the very least… prompts them to start asking questions.
However, the VERY REASON false teachings have exploded in our churches is:
#1) These are signs of the times that Jesus warned us of. False teachers are becoming increasingly skilled -sprinkling TRUTH amongst their false teachings. (some of which probably believe their own lies.)
#2) There has been a lack of PUBLIC REBUKE and RESTORATION OF SOUND DOCTRINE. We have allowed the fire to burn out of control by sitting in silence for far too long! You know the whole “touch not mine anointed…” and “speaking out against the man of gawd”.. I’m sure.
Yes, God’s Word is simple and it is there for us in black and white. But let’s not forget the personal process it takes for these to finally see the truth and actually hit the exit doors. Let’s not be quick to insinuate that they have no "common sense". At one point I was one of “those people”, did I not have any common sense?? We have to keep in mind that most of these folks have invested years of their life and as a result, they have developed deep attachments to their church and pastor. Like Cornerstone, most of these churches BECAME increasingly spiritually abusive and BECAME increasingly open to false doctrine.
And yes, there are a lot of books out there that deal with cult mentalities and spiritual abuse, but I don’t know of many ministers who are calling out these guys “by name”. This is exactly how Paul taught the NT believers to deal with false teachings 1) To call them out publically and 2) CORRECT the false teachings.
As far as believers NOT studying their Word -you are absolutely correct! This is WHY they have been carried away by every wind of doctrine. This is also WHY there is such a need to speak the truth in love the more, these are the times we are living in.
To speaking the truth in love, an excellent observation as to the loss of focus and purpose of the church. We cannot deny that this role has been played out generation after generation, thankfully it is the current Church within the church which speaks out against the current focus of today's empire, I mean church. Keep speaking it!
ReplyDeleteSome very interesting & poignant comments by all. Speaking Truth in Love broke things down nicely according to Scripture & that is what should always be our guide.
ReplyDeleteAs for Anonymous May 10, 3:22 PM, it would be nice if things were as simple as people using common sense & walking away from these apostate preachers & mammon grubbing fleshly preachers. However, humans, being the complex & often codependent creatures that they are, find it difficult to just walk away from these ungodly situations & relationships.
I, like you, wish they would walk away & take their money & support with them. And you are right, God will not tell us to stay and pray when His Word tells us to flee - He does not contradict Himself. However, it becomes easy for those staying to justify their lingering by saying that God is telling them to stay & pray or to stay because they aren't there to serve a man, they are there to serve God and it doesn't matter what the preacher has done or how he has treated others who disagree with him because they don't do that or agree with it. Say what?!
It really goes back to a lack of sound doctrinal teaching and a personal study of the Word. The Word is clear that we are to call out and rebuke apostate leaders. We are to flee from them, not stay and make excuses for them or for our flesh which feels like staying for a variety of reasons.
And as for Jack Van Impe, I have not been a long time follower of Jack. Due to the fact that Michael Pitts always preached against endtime doctrine & those who had charts & graphs etc., I steered away from any & all teaching with regard to the rapture or endtime doctrine because that is what Michael preached. How sad for me that I closed my mind and spirit to other pastors's teaching who weren't a part of Michael's network of important peeps who apparently had all of the right revelation - NOT!
I really think Jack Van Impe is very sincere & endtime doctrine is his niche of study. He feels strongly at this time about the apostasy that is occurring and the lack of sound doctrine in our churches today. Too many preachers are worried about numbers & money & preach whatever it takes to keep their churches filled. There has been a generation of fluffy preaching that makes people feel good rather than convict them of sin and preaching to them the message of the Cross. Christians today would rather hear about sowing seeds and getting wealth and favor in return than about repentance.
There is a shaking and sifting (not shifting which is often bogged down in sh**) going on in the Church today. And if your foundation is built on sand it will sink. Much of what is taught in the mega mammon churches today resembles less and less of what Jesus taught.
It is time to wake up & look up for your redemption draws nigh.
The Times we live in are amazing to me. The things to come which God warned us about , as it relates to the great falling away is being played out daily. Did you ever think money would draw the line for what a preacher would or would not say? When we analyze the progression of any preacher “called of God” we see a preacher who preaches the basic foundation of the Gospel, vigorously reaching out to the lost and taking the time necessary to win them.
ReplyDeleteThe lines become blurred when a preacher realizes the opportunities money allows them. The same preacher, who has raised money to keep the physical church running, now has more than enough to keep the church running and now devises plans of “His Choosing” to raise money for this or that.
The problem is, Jesus commanded us to go into the world, not to find a pastor to tell us what part of the world he’s going to. Which simply means, each and every one of us are to impact every person we come into contact with by exemplifying the Love of God. This is done NOT ONLY by giving, but by living. Living a Godly Life preaches what words could never say.
Our Generation has been raised by pastors who arbitrarily place Gods name on what they want to do and have convinced us to submit to “ the vision”. The vision is most often elsewhere and involving someone else, while those in the house struggle, struggle not only with the need for deliverance, but monetary needs also. Speaking the truth in love talks about unity, the apostles and church believers alike shared in the unity.
Acts 4:33-37
“ And the apostles preached powerful sermons about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and there was warm fellowship among all the believers, and no poverty-for all who owned land or houses sold them and brought the money to the apostles to give to others in need. For instance, there was Joseph (the one the apostles nicknamed "Barnabas, the encourager"! He was of the tribe of Levi, from the island of Cyprus). He was one of those who sold a field he owned and brought the money to the apostles for distribution to those in need. (TLB)
ALL this giving was to those in the local church, this principle NO LONGER EXIST! Faith used to be directed at believing for healing and salvation, it has now been refocused towards believing “the preacher” a man is doing with my money what God wants.
According to the scripture, the believers did something with their money or property which created an abundance and provision for everyone in that local church. So why does the pastor, now direct the purpose of money and never allow the believers to unite towards the building of wealth themselves? You do not hear of a pastor connecting the people with money with the people who have an idea, with the people who know how to get it done, with the only goal being to increase the people in the church.
The generic examples of people, who do receive help, are usually those individuals who are in the click or the club, but as long as self (flesh) is king, unity in its purest form will never exist in the church.
Been a long time, but I have to add to the great conversation here... and what a much-needed one it is! I, like so many of you, am increasingly weary of mammon's stranglehold over not just the mega-pimps of our time, but over the very POSSESSION of God, His Bride & Body. The DECEITFULNESS of riches have truly asphyxiated the oxygen from the Church's wind (pneuma, Holy Spirit)-pipe, as she gasps for air in her asthmatic stupor. But just as the Living Word later explained this paramount parable in Matthew 13, it is the SOIL's ability to maximize the yield of engrafted Truth that also signifies our HEARTS' collective ability to bear the harvested fruits of His Righteousness.
ReplyDeleteThe reason so many are mixed up in the "modern-money-ministry-mess" is because, just as STIL stated a few posts above, the sheep's lack of DETERMINING SOUND DOCTRINE and standing on it - even against the sway of public opinion or platformed sleight of mouth- has largely led them to shut up and swallow whatever slop might be served them... and then have the nerve to call it all "good". (Scary, huh?)
I do have GOOD NEWS though! The GOOD SHEPHERD, that true Shepherd and Bishop of our souls takes the "WANT" right out of me. He MAKES ME lie down in GREEN PASTURES. He leads me beside STILL WATERS. He leads me in PATHS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS for HIS Name's sake. He RESTORES our souls by reverting our DIET... back to the Love of Truth and His Very Word! And once your diet is altered and Truth frees your mind from it's previously blinded state... Deception DIES! Hunger for True teaching grows STRONGER!
There is obviously much more to add here... to this massive need for correcting the "pay-to-play" money mindset that has sabotaged not only the pure message and precious Cross of Christ, but has grossly altered any resemblence of true heart-led New Covenant giving, as Leroy well-stated.
I agree wholeheartedly that WRONG DOCTRINE holds the Body in bondage to cruel taskmasters and charlatans galore, but we all must keep crying out like a voice in the wilderness... PREPARE the Way of THE LORD, MAKE STRAIGHT PATHS for His Feet to walk on again. Give us more Grace, Abba!!! Remember, UNITY GROWS as collective deception dies... as Love for Truth pushes out the wasted excrement of men's fleshly alterations to it... as Christ is exalted in each member's heart and lifestyle. Come on! We can do ALL THINGS through Christ our Solid Strength! Jesus prayed this for us all who would come to believe in His Message. He's STILL praying it. -Will you and I be the answer or prolong the dysfunction? :o)
As some of you know I'm working on a book "Religion Stole My God: But I'm Getting God Back" And I'm working on a section that discusses tithing and giving, and church support, and of course how much should pastors and ministers earn. I bring it up here because frequently brought up in this forum is the fact that the Pitts boys con people out of their money and then use it for their own agenda or own personal gain. So I'm wondering how much should a pastor make, and should a pastor of a 500 member congregation make as much as a pastor of say 3000 or 8000 or even more?
ReplyDeleteThere are alot of sincere ministers that are sincerely wrong. JVI is one of them. 98% of his end time prophecies never come to fruition.
ReplyDeleteThe lie that most people believe is that they need a "preacher" to explain the gospel to them and distinguish sound doctrine from false.That is a foundational wrong belief that must be removed before people can be free. It is co-dependent trickery.
You need me to interpret the scripture for you or tell you what God is saying or you can't understand it is the set up for control over people.When people believe and realize that we all have the same spirit of truth that will lead us into all truth then they will approach the scripture differently with ears to hear from God and not man. A teacher or preacher may expound but they have no "special revelation" gift that these charlatans make us believe to get our allegiance and rape our wallets.The gospel is easy to understand for even a child and that is all we should seek to know is Christ and Him crucified. Again, there are hundreds of websites, preachers, and books that preach against this abuse (john Macarthur). It is new to all of you because you were never open to this info in the past. People need to quit depending and looking to people to know God for them and know Him themselves. Once you do that, the lights come on very bright and the freedom road is unbelievable. It is a process for sure but you don't need to pray about a scripture that plainly tells you to flee those who have set up the gospel show to get rich. I read that when I went to Cornerstone and had no way around it. Either you let you soul tie control you or you leave and follow the Lord. It's your call at the end of the day. We love to compromise to satisfy our comfortability. It's easier.
How much should a Pastor make? How about he "to not hinder the gospel in any way" get a job like everyone else to alleviate the temptation to make a living from the offering bucket? Paul was a tent maker. Ministry should be a love and a calling not a profession like a CEO. If you knew how much real time these guys spend actually doing work it would drive you mad.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the scripture verse that talks about fleeing when you come into contact with false preaching? I can't seem to find it but could really use it. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI ask that we please keep all comments relevant to above article. Especially if your opinion is that we have no need for Ministers to restore sound doctrine to the Church; then there really is no point in contributing.
ReplyDeleteThe topic on the table is Unity in the Body of Christ... Thank you.
To Curious2:
ReplyDeleteEph. 5:3-13; 15-21
2 John 9-11
1 Tim. 1:3-7
Romans 16:17,18
I Tim. 6:20,21
Col. 3:14-17
I Cor. 5 (Paul writing to the Corinthian Church)
1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
** 11 But now I have written unto you NOT TO KEEP COMPANY, IF ANY MAN THAT IS CALLED A BROTHER BE A FORNICATOR, OR COVETOUS, OR AN IDOLATER, OR A RAILER, OR A DRUNKARD, OR AN EXTORTIONER; WITH SUCH A ONE NO NOT TO EAT. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Here's a question for some deep though: If we as christians have the same spirit who can lead us into the truth of God's Word and as Anonymous 6:07 PM said, we don't need a man to teach the truth to us because we have the Holy Spirit to teach us, then why have churches or pastors or preachers at all?????
ReplyDeleteJust wondering....
Curious2 cont....
ReplyDelete1 Timothy 6
1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
** 3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
** 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: FROM SUCH WITHDRAW THYSELF.
6But godliness with contentment is great gain.
**10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11But thou, O man of God, FLEE THESE THINGS; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Ok, if we want unity in the body of Christ, then we should have something to be unified about - and that would be sound doctrine.
ReplyDeleteThere is so much hybrid gospel preaching and teaching going on that it has produced a crop of crap in the Body of Christ and the sad souls following personalities and glorious churches are sinking in the miry crap of shi**y oops shifty doctrines of smooth talking preachers.
C'mon people, not every one who wears a robe and ring are upright and honest no matter how great a gift of speaking they have. Again, look at the fruit of their lives...what are they producing which will continue reproducing among the offspring of that particular church body.
Step out of the crap and into the light so that you may see and understand with a new set of spiritual eyes. When you close yourself off to all other pastors/churches because you feel that you are in the anointed church of the hour, that is a scary place to be. It is cult-like behavior and when you only eat a one sided diet, you eventually become sick.
As for Jack Van Impe and end time prophecies, Anon. 6:07, you must certainly have watched him a great deal to know all of his prophecies and remember them so well to know that none of them have come to pass. Really?
ReplyDeleteWe are just moving toward end times. Are his prophecies from the Word as he interprets the word from his studies or are they merely thus saith the Lord, I see blah,blah,blah going to happen.
You know we do at some point need those who have time to study and search out those matters of the Word that many of us don't have the time or calling to do.
JVI may not have it all accurate, but he at least calls out those like Rob Bell, author of the Velvet Elvis who are obviously preaching heresy in what they call a church. JVI believes in sound doctrine and is trying to call out apostates who alter the foundational teachings of the Word about heaven and hell and salvation.
Unfortunately today the Body is full of preachers who believe in universalism, the belief that all will go to heaven regardless. If that is the case then why did Jesus need to suffer and die for our sins??
FYI, I followed JVI ministries for a period of ten years in the 90's. JVI's MO is to try to use the latest war, adverse weather event, or new technology and tie it to a scripture in Daniel. It's so bad it's like a broken record. Good thing I didn't listen to him when he said computer microchips where the mark of the beast. I wouldn't have ever used a computer and you wouldn't be able to enjoy my wonderful sarcastic posts. (all in love).
ReplyDelete"You know we do at some point need those who have time to study and search out those matters of the Word that many of us don't have the time or calling to do". This above is an example of a stronghold. You don't have time to read the bible? It's not your calling to have a relationship with Jesus? Again, you are deceived to think you cannot interpret scripture like the mighty Bishop. This leads you to co-dependency and you become vulnerable to being taken advantage of by the wolf. Again, you have the Spirit of Truth that will lead you into ALL TRUTH. Unity is in Christ and by Christ. There is no way you are ever going to get 20K denominations to agree on everything. I tried it and bought the t shirt. Save your money and time. Know HIM.
Answer for Anon. 7:47
ReplyDelete“Here's a question for some deep though: If we as christians have the same spirit who can lead us into the truth of God's Word and as Anonymous 6:07 PM said, we don't need a man to teach the truth to us because we have the Holy Spirit to teach us, then why have churches or pastors or preachers at all?”????
------------
Friend, the first rule of thumb when it comes to studying scripture, is to always interpret scripture with scripture. There will ALWAYS be another scripture to support… (in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, every word may be established..2 is the number of witness/testimony.) Also we have to remember to look at the context in which it was written.
Eph. 4 clearly tells us:
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" --(so that answers the question again in regards to not “needing” ministers to restore sound doctrine by teaching others the Word of God)
Also… 2 Tim. 2:1,2
“You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.”
So now that we have qualified the scriptural support for the vital role of teachers within the Body of Christ… let’s continue.
John 14:16,17 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
According to 1 John 4 and the above scripture in John 14, there is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error. How does a believer distinguish between the two?? By testing the spirits. Has does one test the spirit of a teaching? By the Holy Spirit that bears witness within you. No other man can bear witness to THAT truth for you, only the Holy Spirit.
I John 2:26,27 “These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, AND IS TRUE AND IS NOT A LIE, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.’
This scripture was in reference to warning believers against teachings of antichrists….previous verses 18 “Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us”. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.”
So again, we see that ONLY the Holy Spirit can take the teachings of a man and bear witness in our hearts, as to whether it is truth or error…
Especially warning us of these days when many shall depart from the faith and begin teaching false doctrine; we need to rely upon the anointing, the divine empowerment and indwelling of the Spirit of Jesus Christ to guard us and guide us into all truth, as only He can.
Hope this helped!
"Anonymous":
ReplyDeleteNot sure how long you have been following the blog, but we are very clear that believers need to study to show themselves approved. So we agree, believers should not depend on their Pastor as a sole weekly source of study.
As far as UNITY:
Please reread the article, I am clearly not suggesting UNITY is going to come by everyone agreeing on every backseat doctrinal area of scripture. That is obviously not going to happen and certainly not worried about that "t-shirt".
Rather, UNITY in the Body of Christ is found by recovering the heartbeat of the Cause... Building disciples, reaching souls with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and getting back to the Front Seat Message of the Cross.
Again, this is not Life after JV Ministries... it is Life after Cornerstone in case you are not from the Toledo area. Please keep in mind that many of those who just left Cornerstone are finding it refreshing to return to studying out end time theology...since for many years it was taught to them incorrectly. ("Kingdom Now" doctrine.)
So please friend, let's give them a break as they try to sort it out and not be too quick to label them in the process.
Thanks...
Anonymous 8:29,
ReplyDeleteOf course we are never going to get 20k denominations to agree on everything. That is not what I was saying. I was saying that those churches which profess to be christian should all agree on the doctrine of Christ & salvation. He is the way, the truth & the Life, period. In addition, there can be no confusion about sin & what to do when those in leadership exhibit lifestyles of sin & deception & do not repent.
The other doctrines/beliefs such as speaking in tongues, prohecy, being slain in the spirit etc. are icing on the cake so to speak. You can still get to heaven without believing in those things. There are many things such as end time beliefs of pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib that we may never all agree on. The bottom line is that there will be a tribulation and Jesus is our hope in the midst of it or out of it. But when pastors, bishops etc. such as MP state they don't believe in the rapture because "it's the coming of the Lord,not the going up of the saints", they are in error. And then they twist the Word to say that we will have dominion here on earth over all evil & will deliver the kingdom over to God, again, clear error. 1 Cor. 15:24 clearly says this:Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule & all authority & power. v.25 For He must reign until HE has put all enemies under HIS feet.
Those verses do not say that we are going to rule over all evil and take dominion before Jesus returns. That is a clear twisting of Scripture to fit an agenda to control & manipulate christians and get them pumped up because it sounds so victorious, & then they are more enticed to give wonderful seed offerings to show their faith in hopes of receiving magnificent blessings that are already free & paid for by the blood of Jesus.
It would be nice if we could just pray away all evil across the world & bind it up. Ain't gonna happen. Take a look at the world today. It is getting worse & worse as Scripture says it will in 2 Tim. 3:1-9.
Also, Anon. 8:29, you misunderstood my comment about needing teachers who have time & the calling to study out the Word. To call that a stronghold makes no sense. Teachers by their very nature study at great length to teach what they have learned. Studying the Bible & merely reading the Bible are 2 different things. I can read the Word and meditate on it, but I am not studying it in depth. And when teachers teach in line with the truth of the Word, the Spirit within us bears witness to that truth. It does not make us susceptible to being taken advantage of by "the wolf" & I was not referring to Michael in particular. Nor does it make us co-dependent. Co-dependency refers to a dysfunctional relationship. Just because someone sits under a teacher and listens to them teach does not make them co-dependent. But if one does that & never searches out the Scripture that is taught, for themselves, it can leave them open to error.
"Walang manloloko kung walang magpapaloko”
ReplyDeleteThis is a Filipino saying: “There would be no charlatans if there were no fools.”
Speaking of studying, has the Global School of Ministry attained any accreditation so that the degrees will be worth something other than GSM paper? Have they actually hired degreed theologians to teach theology?
People may actually believe they ARE studying the word.
I am not sure if my comment went through before Blogger went down.
ReplyDeleteSomeone brought up the difference between studying the word and reading and meditating on the word. I wonder how many people realize that the Global School of Ministry isn't exactly run by theologians.
ReplyDeleteI am truly curious to know if any of you believe that they study the word?
Did any of the teachers have degrees in what they taught? Is the school accredited? Do students get credits that will transfer to anywhere? Is the degree worth anything besides the paper it is printed on, the money spent and/or possible feelings of pride for actually finishing the program?
It seems like a complete racket to me.
To Anonymous 1:09 AM,
ReplyDeleteI guess our comments aren't returning any time soon, but yes, I said that there is a difference between reading your Bible and meditating on it and studying the Word - a big difference. Just because you read the Bible which is what we should do, does not make us Bible scholars or theologians. It does however, build up our spirit man and helps us in our relationship with Jesus and with each other, or at least it should.
Having said that, yes you are right about the Global School of Ministry. No theologians & I suppose, if you really break down the meaning of "study" the Word, are they indeed studying the Word or merely getting re-indoctrinated at a deeper level to prepare for ministry the Cornerstone way??
And no, no real transferrable credits or accredidation. They want it to have the feel & experience of taking college courses because they have made the requirements so tough, because after all if you can make it through their standards, then you will be ready for ministry according to the leaders. It really is just a way to get extra help in the ministry departments. They want you to work in all of the depts. at some point or another. Well, what about 3D and knowing what your calling & giftings are???
Really, it's just another attempt at Michael trying to assuage his ego & say look at what we have - a "global" school of ministry. And how many will really be chosen to move on into ministry?? The same pet people already in top positions?? And where will they assign you to ministry???
When I was still attending, I thought for a minute about signing up for the GSM. However, I felt like it was yet another competitive thing that said, "Oh look at me, I'm in the Global School of Ministry." And then after the first session, many were crying and running to Sister Banks because the courses were too tough & they had never gone to college and why did it have to be so hard? Are you kidding me - that is the tough Cornerstone way don't you know, to prove yourself & just knuckle under to their demands. And all those who did were puffed up like peacocks hoping to be recognized & feeling well, more important than those who didn't sign up & they were treated as such. And then it became announcement after announcement about all of the wonderful GSM students & how wonderful the school was & you know the drill.
So, it is merely one more cog in the wheel called Cornerstone to cause members to become more deeply indoctrinated & more commited to Michael and his empire. And it creates the "haves & have nots" of Cornerstone "levels" and moving up.
Paul went through the school of hard knocks and experience when God called him and blinded him for a time. I don't think God requires extensive "indoctrination" & making things super tough so that it appears you are more qualified than the "common" old christian who hasn't taken the classes. The Word tells that we are all to be witnesses and we are all to be equipped to serve others and that is what the work of a pastor should be, to equip the saints, all of the saints, not select ones who have the time and money to take quasi college courses to become "possible" candidates for ministry, but no guarantees of that.
Ah yes, modern christianity at its finest. If we would just stick to the doctrine of Christ & be built up in that & reach out to a lost & dying world, what a difference that would make. But no, we want titles and positions and degrees before we can lead others to Christ or feed the poor or lay hands on the sick. When did all become so complicated?? Oh yea, when money became the church's god.
Ok, just posted a reply to Anonymous 1:09 AM. It was there and now it's gone. What is going on??
ReplyDeleteLet's see what happens with this one.
So much for open dialogue I guess.
ReplyDeleteTo Frustrated,
ReplyDeleteBe patient. Sometimes things get spammed and don't make it to the blog right away. The blog administrator does its best to allow comments on topic and comments that do not go off on pet opinions or rabbit trails.
I for one am glad for this blog and all of the discussion allowed in these articles. It is much needed today and with all that has gone on at Cornerstone these last 6 years or so. Many have been left in confusion and doubt and have felt isolated and alone. This blog certainly helps those who have walked that lonely road to see they are indeed not alone or disgruntled or off in their spirit.
So, I say keep on bloggin'....
To Frustrated:
ReplyDeleteDid you see the post regarding Blogger's recent technical difficulties? We are still waiting for them to return all of the posts since last Wed. This also is the reason why some people have been experiencing problems posting new comments. They promise to have everything fixed very soon.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Anon 2:04pm
ReplyDeleteI am amazed that so much has been put into GSM. I am aware that Cornerstone as a general practice, does not wholly respect or value any kind of higher education. Sure, if a person receives a degree and it is a check mark next to the church name,yes. That is as far as it goes. I do not count "Grad Day" where we paraded up and down stage and were given token gifts as respecting education.
If I had a nickle for every time I heard that god will "fill in where you lack" as an excuse for people to NOT go for education or more training, I would be their best tither.
The heads of the church are uneducated. How are they over a school of ministry when they have no clue about the system? Heck, for that matter, how do they run their respective ministries with absolutely no training in what they are running? I am not saying that training is the be all end all, I'm just saying.
Oh, I am so sorry. God is filling in the blanks. I am sure different roles are delegated to proper people, but I imagine it is much like everything else there. They announce exceptional quality and deliver mediocrity.
It is quite obvious from Bishop MP's teachings that he has no understanding of how to interpret the scripture in context. He never even teaches HOW TO APPROACH scripture because if he did he would have to walk away from 75% of his belief system. He is about hype and profiting off those less fortunate. It is sad that people continue to give money to this charlatan.
ReplyDeleteMinistry callings are from the Lord and cannot be imparted by a “Bishop” or a “ministry course” (accredited or not accredited). A mantle or “anointing” for ministry is not something that is transferred onto someone else by someone “higher up” that deems you “ready”.
ReplyDeleteCertainly there is nothing wrong with taking classes and there is nothing wrong with someone teaching a class that is not a scholared theologian. However, such classes should not be marketed as such and presented as something it simply is not.
Why all the hype? You cannot have a legitimate educational graduation, without accreditation. Much less charge for it as such. Not to mention that “GSM” is not recognized beyond the circles in which it exists…. It’s just another “hoop” for hopeful ministers within the congregation and another classic attempt in keeping up with the “appearances” of Apostleship. A true Apostle (like Paul) is more of a father who comes along side by side/ a co-laborer; he doesn’t stand off to the side and create “business opportunities” to create an appearance of ministry impartation.
Folks, this is nothing more than plastic BREAST IMPLANTS… for babes looking to “feed” off their mother. At the end of the day, there is no real nourishment for those in need. Just "promises" and "appearance" from a distance, a result of "inflation" and vanity.
If you examine every initiative, prophecy, goal, program, or ministry vision at Cornerstone Toledo you will realize that it is all rooted around CONTROLLING PEOPLE and MAKING MONEY. Try it sometime. This is exactly what I started to realize when I was leaving. Amazing. Great business though.
ReplyDeleteWE HEAR NO BELLS RINGING AS PRIEST, AND YET WE DON'T PULL THEM OUT!
ReplyDeleteIt has been said by many, right now is the only time you can control, the truth of this statement is limited, limited because it is the actions of the past which accounts for benefits or deficits of your present. Life is not left to blind chance, it is left to the will of man, two choices, submit to God or live in strength of man. Submission to God ensures fulfillment and peace. The strength of man is temporal at best, because with the passage of time there is also a decline in ability.
From creation,until now, what's the purpose of the thing man lives to do? Have you ever measured the amount of time you spend seeking God, and I am NOT talking about prayer, because prayers speak more to intentions of the heart, then it does actions, it is your actions which determine the outcome. So if you are seeking God, your actions are moving you towards finding exactly where he is.
I noticed many years ago that many who lead praise and worship have NO since of what it means. This includes the pastors who hire them. If I am leading you, you must do what I do while heading in the same direction. Why then would I tell you to bless his name rather than engaging God myself. If I am leading in praise and worship, I WILL ENGAGE GOD, I WILL PLACE MYSELF IN HIS PRESENCE, I WILL MOVE BY HIS ANOINTING and the people will follow. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.
The ingredients mixed in today's church leadership is what needs to be examined, simply are they holy or ungodly, in control of the flesh or wild asses. These answers are what adds the blessing or curse to your life. The anointing flows from the head down AND SO DOES THE CURSE!
In the old testament the priest wore bells when they went beyond the Vail into the holy of holies, and we know this was because if they where not "holy" there soon would be no movement, they would be killed. Today the lack of holiness is covered with a lower expectation in the ability to exemplify control over ones self. This is perfectly understandable for a regular church member, but not leadership.
Would it be a wise decision to put a serial bank robber in charge of counting the offering? Or have a known child molester in charge of the day care? A gay man in charge of the towels in the men's shower?
Why then would it be okay in "The House of God" for the those who minister? WE HEAR NO BELLS RINGING AS PREIST, AND YET WE DON'T PULL THEM OUT? There is no tangible presence of God, no anointing , no deliverance and no PRESENT TRUTH!
I submit to you that the reason the life of a church goer is frustrated and conflicted is because of all of the impurities which are privately set before you to lead you. This is an easy task to accomplish when it is known that you don't know the principles of Gods word, When you don't take action, you loose faith and without faith it is impossible to please God!
It is the contaminated sanctuary which slows your ability to be delivered, healed and prosperous. It is obvious through your questions to God that you desire more, but you must know, God is not on your side, HE IS GOD! You are not following God because you asked the question, whether or not you are following God is determined by what you do with the answer he has given.
Remember it is not only leadership which spiritually suppress, there are supports from membership which serve to cloud the judgment and causes second guessing of what should be obvious.
OK, now I don't believe the rapture is going to happen 5/21/2011 as some fringe people seem to be predicting. But lets say that it does happen. Will the leadership of CC be lifeted up to heaven, or are they destined to burn? How about the followers of the leadership.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking truth in love,
ReplyDeleteif mantles/annointings cannot be given/transferred to another by another than what exactly was it elijah gave to elisha?
Just checking,
ReplyDeleteWe don't live in the Old Covenant dispensation. We live in the dispensation of Grace. Big difference. Mike will never tell you that because he wants to live like a King and make you think you need him to get something God already gave all of us by the shed blood of Jesus.
That is a foundational problem with most of these Churches. They operate under OT leadership styles that are no longer relevant to the NT Church.
Welcome to the Catholic Church....
Mike can't give you anything. That is the deception. God already gave you everything in Christ and gave you your gifting by Grace. Mike can't do nothing about it as he would say...
Read Hebrews ALL the way through 5 times and you will get so free you will never go back to Cornerstone again....
Praise Him!
So if we are all saved by grace, and the test is believing in Jesus. Then I assume that that applies to MP and RP, as well as everyone who follows them. Even Haggard (mentioned above) will be saved by grace.
ReplyDeleteTo "just checking":
ReplyDeleteYou asked about mantles with Elijah and Elisha. That’s a good question.
Mantles were actually outer coats. Mantles were a type of “spiritual covering”, signifying AUTHORITY and ANOINTING from God. Not everyone had such authority, only select individuals commissioned by God for a specific assignment. (This is why it was necessary for Elijah to transfer his mantle to Elisha.) Elijah cast his mantle on Elisha symbolizing God’s call on Elisha’s life to a spirit-filled ministry.
A mantle was actually an outer garment --it was worn on top of the rest. The mantle of God’s anointing is not the first garment. It is added only to those who have first been clothed in salvation’s robe. Being an outer garment, it was impossible to hide. Everybody could see it.
Now we know that Michael Pitts will tell you that he is your “spiritual covering”. So let’s say that is true, then you would also have to go on and say that your spiritual authority and anointing COME THROUGH HIM as well… since HE is transferring his “mantle/anointing" to you right? Doesn’t make sense does it.. Why? Because it is false teaching…. AND IT LEADS YOU TO FOLLOW HIM AND HIS “CHURCH” AND NOT THE RULERSHIP OF CHRIST FOR YOURSELF. (like I keep repeating for those who are reading… think about it)
The only one who has the power to give you authority is Jesus Christ by way of salvation through the Cross. Jesus Christ is our Covering, and we have his "mantle”, His anointing, His authority… Why? Because HE ALONE is the only begotten son of the Father.
While we don’t want to simply dismiss the OT and say “oh, that means nothing now… we are in the NT”. We need to study what these symbols/people meant and apply them in context with the new covenant of grace. Prophetic symbolism is a beautiful and powerful thing, when it is properly interpreted.
So good news for all the “GSM” hopefuls waiting for ministry to “release you” with the special “anointing” mantle from Michael Pitts. I know someone who already PAID THE PRICE IN FULL for your “impartation” –Jesus Christ. And I'd rather go in the covering of the Blood of the Lamb, then to settle for the Network Covering of a Man.
Please try to remember to post under a "name"... this makes it easier to answer your questions and/or respond to your comment.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
Anonymous 7:02 pm:
ReplyDeleteRead our article "The Fruit of a False Prophet"... it will help answer that question for you. I expound on how false teachers deny Him as Lord, by denying him in their lifestyle.
It's simply not enough to "believe in Jesus". He must continue to be Lord over your life. Of course, ALL of us struggle at times with sin, we repent, we move on. However, UNBELIEVERS are those who live a lifestyle with no regard to holiness. So I would say a good gauge is: Where is the conviction of righteousness in your life? Or do you continue on without a second thought to your sin?
So yes, you can wear a "collar" and go to hell. It happens every day. Salvation is not easily "broken", but it can be left behind. This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, when you say within your heart that you have no need for him to be Lord over your life anymore --"you" got this. And "grace" goes from an empowerment to overcome sin to being measured by YOUR own standards of "right" and "wrong".
It's a fine line friend and not one I'd want to risk walking. I would say that only God can judge this "line" in a person's heart. We however have his Word to judge everything else. Remember, judge the FRUIT.
People of God: The solution is not rocket science as if no one knows what to do about the present situation in either mainline or independent churches that preach a different gospel. Answer: you do two things. One,you make your stand and protest what you see like a good prophet and warn the people that they are to be held accountable if they affirm or confirm known sin in the camp. Two: if you or your message is rejected, you pack your grip and move on and "dust off your feet" when you leave the parking lot.
ReplyDeleteWhy do not more people do this? Simple: They are scared to make a stand and be alone and face
persecution for their stand so they "wimp" out by
saying, "God knows and he knows my heart!"
They want to be liked and fellowshipped and not
leave "Ur for another unknown land." So, they
sit there and take the abuse of scripture and think they are being martyrs for the cause!
Wrong! They are timid and do not want to go into the desert because they will miss those onions and leeks and melons they enjoyed in Egypt (their current church fellowship).
THey do not contend for the faith (JUde) but rather they think love covers a multitude of sins and they are loving, so they allow the cancer to spread.
If more Christians would discover their backbone and reject clear Biblical error and not financially support these charlatans parading in the pulpit and those who give false prophecies, we would not have this problem.
Church discipline is woefully lacking when it puts up with sin in the camp because the leadership wants to keep the pew numbers high and the money coffers full.
Come on saints...contend for the faith and fight the good fight of faith! If you honor God's Word, He will honor you!
Lafe Tolliver. E mail: Tolliver@Juno.com.
Note: I am willing to meet with similar minded people but only to devise strategies and not a
"woe is me" gripe session.
The church is flagging because we have not put the Word to the test but rather we have become
people pleasers and not willling to speak truth to power!
To echo Lafe....
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be hard to stomach for some of us but here we go…Mike and Rob are not responsible for the monetary or material success of Cornerstone Toledo or Lima or any other network marketing church they have in their down line. (sorry guys if that hurts your egos).
Without us “the itching ears crowd” there would be no buildings, no fancy suits, no fables, and false promises and no enablers coming through from time to time to rape us of our hard earned money.Mike and Rob and all these other charlatans exist because we are the ENABLERS. It is our fault that they do what they do in the name of the Lord.
Paul warned us that right here in 2 Timothy:
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. People will refuse to listen to the truth and turn to myths or a fabrication of the Truth.Our flesh and american dream get rich mentality has empowered these people to hood wink and fabricate and twist the truth to tell us what our flesh wants and not what God is really saying to us.Like Nicholson said, You can’t handle the Truth and I will go one step further, WE DON’T WANT THE TRUTH. We want the pie in the sky put it all on black and win the lottery message.
We want Mike to go to Africa and do “ministry work” so we throw our money at them because it’s easier that way. It relieves us of our responsibility to do the work of the ministry and it provides a euphoric feeling that we are going to get lucky with God and win the heavenly lottery and be rich like Rob and Mike.
Ain’t going to happen folks. Stop empowering and enabling the abuse. Let the Truth satisfy you and not a fabrication of the Truth.
Grab a few books on co-dependency and real NT giving and you CAN BREAK THE CYCLE OF ABUSE.
It’s our own doing folks. Pull the plug and lean on Jesus and a life of contentment. The american dream has invaded the church and is a lie.
Lafe,
ReplyDeleteYou sum it up nicely as does anonymous above. Christians who continue to look the other way when false doctrine & double lives are fully evident are definitley guilty of keeping the cog turning. If these so called christians would stop feeding the beast it will eventually die.
However, the problem is that many have been fed a poor diet for so long that they don't have a clue as to what the Word really says. Michael has sprinkled in a few verses here & there to add as a topping to his pet doctrines and it all seems so digestible. It sounds good & feels good, so it must be good & of God because after all, why wouldn't God want to bless everyone & take them to the next big level of promotion. Please, chapter and verse on the next level already. It is nowhere to be found.
The excuses of the long timers still attending Cornerstone is old and tired. Michael has done more to bring disunity to the Body of Christ in this area due to his false doctrine & slamming every church in town, it is a shame and needs to stop. I just can't believe those who continue to defend "pastors" who have little to no heart for people, & can't be bothered with those truly in need. As Anonymous above said, it is easier to send Michael off to Africa & throw money at him than it is to really do the work of the ministry, right here in this town. And belive me, this town needs a whole lot of ministry.
I thought Michael & Robert were going to take this city for Jesus & bind up every evil spirit through their powerful prayers. Give me a break. It's called getting down & dirty with the common folk and ministering to those whose lives are in a real mess, not looking to gather more of the pretty people & the talented, gifted people unto themselves. And let's not forget those who own businesses or have wealth.
It all made me disgusted & that is why I finally left. It stopped being about Jesus & was all about them & still is. Too bad the blind sheep don't see it or refuse to see it.
So Lafe, I am wondering about the strategies you are looking for? Strategies for what exactly if you care to share here. And are you really serious about meeting with like minded people to devise these strategies for whatever you are talking about?
Just wondering.
“Walang manloloko kung walang magpapaloko.”
ReplyDeleteThis is a Filipino saying that means:
“There would be no charlatans if there were no fools.”
And so the world turns... as it will continue to do. There is a point when we have to stop banging our heads against the wall and focus on ourselves and figure out how it was we all perpetuated the beast. After all, if we were part of it, that means there is a beast in us.
Penny. You hit the nail on the head. This is the deception in religion and with our government. We ultimately are the ones responsible for the BS. We can shut this all down if enough people said, enough is enough, and walked.
ReplyDeleteSo many people are blinded by their awe of mp. How can we make them believe that things are not as they seem?
ReplyDeleteKeep posting Bible Truths in context on this site and allowing people to tell their story of how they were mistreated and how they got out of the prison. Thats a good start. Thank God for this blog.
ReplyDeleteTo C2,
ReplyDeleteWow, a loaded question. How do we make them believe things are not as they appear?
Well, to start with, people generally believe what they want to in spite of the evidence in front of them, particulary when there is an abusive or codependent relationship involved or when there is fear of the unknown.
Take for instance the alcoholic, they believe what they want to in spite of what is right in front of their face. They believe they can stop anytime, they can control it, there is nothing wrong with them, it's none of your business, it's my life, etc. etc.
Cornerstonians aren't any different. They are in awe of Michael and his giftedness and revelation. After all he is so anointed and what would they do without him? How would they ever sort through the Word without him? He in actuality is their drug of choice. They need him, they crave him and his revelation, his anointing and power. He makes them feel good, feel powerful, just sow a seed, speak this, bind that and all will be well. They choose not to look at the truth and remain in denial, because coming out of denial would cause them to have to actually take a step of faith and act on the mess the elephant in the living room has made, and it might not feel good.
So, no we can't make them believe anything unfortunately until they humble themselves & allow the Holy Spirit to speak the truth to them & actually listen to it. There is a verse that says be still and know that I am God. And in quietness & confidence shall be your strength. That is when you can hear from God for yourself. When you open your Bible and still yourself and listen to that still small voice of the Holy Spirit within you.
So, I wish it were that simple as to make them believe or see the error that is present in Michael's preaching, but we can't. It may take a real slap in the face so to speak for them to see things as they are.
And it is strange that they can't see the anger in his style of preaching. It's like he has to scream to get his point across or perhaps that is the abusive style that keeps them feeling guilty and submitted to his "awesome" & intense indoctrination. Michael of course will tell them he has to break open the atmosphere and come at it hard & strong, the "deutomous" blasting anointing. Oh brother, it sounds so spiritual, so powerful....please...he is as the great OZ, a scam.
Quite frankly, I am glad that I am free from it. I can't stand to listen to his preaching anymore or any of the pastors there. It's so in your face, look at us, nobody can touch us because God is for us & everybody else out there is so religious & judgemental. Yea, whatever. We are to judge when sin, error & false doctrine are evident.
So C2, all you can do is pray and stay away & hope that the spiritual blinders and denial fall from their eyes of understanding.
Keep reading and blogging here. This blog is a Godsend & has opened prison doors for many!
TO CURRENT MEMBERS OF CEDAR CREEK:
ReplyDeleteOne of our blog visitors has the following questions. They are interested in visiting Cedar Creek and want to know what to expect.
If you are currently attending Cedar Creek... could you please help us out by responding to this comment? Thank you in advance!
-----------------
"I guess I'm wondering how they like it. Did they get involved in ministries or small connect groups. Did they get to meet pastors, etc. Kids ministry good? Missions."
I must say after reading all of these articles and comments, I am truly sad about it all.
ReplyDeleteI mean there were some really good things that Cornerstone taught and gave a good foundation for like praise and worship, but somewhere along the line, a very bad spirit got in that place and forever changed what was once an awesome place to fellowship & worship.
I truly believe that Michael through the years surrounded himself with individuals whose spirits were not pure & their motives not pure. Their greed for gain, power & positions corrupted them which opened the door to listening to wrong spirits, & error slowly crept in along with compromise & eventually full blown lifestyles of sin.
I'm still angry because though there was much that was good, the little leaven & sin has corrupted it all & I for one could no longer remain. And I'm glad I found this blog to see that I was not alone.
And the really sad thing is how can there be unity among believers when we have "shepherds" such as Michael & Robert Pitts who scatter sheep & do nothing to go search for the one that is gone, particularly those who served there faithfully for so many years.
I understand that we can agree to disagree on some things, but not on sin & false doctrine. It must be called out & dealt with & if the offenders are not willing to repent, then we must walk away as the Word is very clear about.
All I can say is Michael & Robert you need to come clean & repent. You need to apologize to all of the sheep you have scattered. Yes, you have scattered them & left some to die along the way due to your pride & stubborness.
God help the shepherds of today who seek not His agenda but their own. And may the sheep have the discernment to know the difference & may God grant us the wisdom to know the difference. I pray also for the serenity to accept what I cannot change, stubborn prideful men who call themselves pastors, bishops,etc.
we go there and OMG they preach the bible, but not how to live or over opinionated, they just tell it like it is without condemnation or guilt. heck even the offering is like, "Hey if you want to that's cool but you don't have to"...and it is laid back...it is more about what happens Monday thru Saturday than the stage show on sunday. But a word of warning, it takes a lot to "deprogram" and i suggest that you be a nameless face in the crowd, and see what it is like to relax and enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI like Cedar Creek, the people are nice, the praise and worship part is fairly well done, (although CS for all its faults is very hard to beat when it comes to praise and worship, even if the praise and worship leader shouldn't be there). I prefer going to the Perrysberg campus and watching the service live, Vs the video feed at the other campuses but I know some people who prefer the video feed. If you are caught up that services have to be high energy you won't find it there, the services are very laid back, and you can tell that Pastor Lee comes from a marketing background.
ReplyDeleteI do like that the finances are open, and what is taken in is published weekly. The salaries are posted (although I never checked) Lee did allude in a service that he Makes about $160,000 and gives back about $40,000 in tithes and offerings.
Over all Cedar Creek is a typical mega seeker church. It purposefully trys not to ruffle too many feathers, and mostly stays fairly close to the surface. Its evident that they fully believe people should show their faith through tithing, but do not make a big issue of it so as not to scare people off.
You can see many of their services on their website for free (live or archived), and can download them, audio or video for free from ITunes.
More In regards to the Cedarcreek experience question. I did not become involved in any of the ministries although I have attended a few group events which were nice and very supportive. The Pastors were accessable I met Pastor Lee several times walking around before and after service (very nice, laid back guy, comes across as very caring and open) I don't see him everytime but I also don't really look for him. I have see most of the other ministers mingling, and I know that one of the pastors/ ministers (although I don't think Lee does) gives Tours of the facilities after services for new members.
ReplyDeleteanonymous 8:51 re: cedar creek. Thanks for the info. quick question, in reading their website, do you need to become a missional member to get involved... like teach the teens or go on mission trips? That would involve lots of classes. Just wondering if it is easy to volunteer and get involved without jumping through tons of hoops. we all know what that's like.
ReplyDeletethanks
I remember when I went to Willowcreek in Chicago years ago with a friend of mine. We were both at Cornerstone at the time and were in Chi town for business. It was mind boggling how different the place was compared to Michael Pitts and Cornerstone. There was no pressure or iron fist rule going on there. Just REAL LOVE and acceptance of people and no CONTROLLING of people going on. It will take you awhile to get used to this when you are used to being controlled and treated like a dumb sheep. Bishop Michael Pitts is a control freak and talks down on people, Cedar Creek is growing for a reason. X Stoners are there for a reason. Doesn't Michael's family go there? Dad and Mom and Sister? That's weird!
ReplyDeleteC2;
ReplyDeleteYour kids will absolutely love the teen ministry at Cedar Creek. It is incredible, especially when compared to Cornerstone. Our teenage kids have grown so much through the teen ministry (Vertical) at Cedar Creek and cannot wait to go every Sunday night. I am sure you are aware of the many issues in the Cornerstone teen ministry and you will be pleasantly surprised by what you find at Cedar Creek. In fact, the lack of a true teen ministry was one of the factors that made us leave Cornerstone after 20 years there (among the many other reasons posted on this blog). The teens are essentially forgotten there, versus highly valued at Cedar Creek. Trust me, your kids will love it.
C2 although your question wasn't directed to me, from my experience at Cedar Creek, like most churches they love to see people willing to volunteer, although I do not get the feeling that they think your life should be that volunteer position.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:27 PM- Cedar Creek kind of grew out of Lee's experience at Willowcreek, and there is still some loose connection between the two.
to betty g
ReplyDeletethanks so much. do you know anything about the fusion ministry? And can people volunteer to work with the teens without jumping through hoops? looks like they go to camp and mssions, etc
Teen camps are open to any of the kids that attend the fusion groups no matter how long you've attended, same goes for the weekend vertical trips, also for the teen mission trips, of course there is a cost for these things, but it is open for anyone. The missional member thing is for the REALLY involved in the business end and the major decision making end of the church. There you have to go through a process to become a missional member but it isn't required to attend. Fusion is good, our kids have made new friends and have gotten involved with the fusion group and the older teens sometimes get volunteered to help out with the smaller kids in the children's ministry when they're short helpers. Getting involved is as easy as putting your name on a piece of paper and waiting for the phone to ring. If that's what you looking to do.
ReplyDeleteSo far i haven't seen any of the politics or the "in fighting" that so plagued CS. If you ever have a question just stop someone and ask, they are quick to help and give and answer.
C2:
ReplyDeleteMy daughter works with the Fusion ministry and loves the kids and volunteers. She did not have to jump through any hoops. They do make volunteering very accessible and you can try any ministry out to see if you fit in. If you don't, then there is no condemnation to leave and try another. My daughter loves the young teens and that ministry. Hope that helps.
You mean you have to jump through hoops at Cornerstone Church Toledo to move up the corporate church ladder? Or is it you have to kiss the leaderships ... keep secrets, and pay tithes to climb that ladder? Funny thing is most people after 20 years are on the first rung. If you think the insecurity of Saul is going to go away so that others can be released into ministry....forget it.
ReplyDeleteThe comments about Cornerstone's teen ministry couldn't be truer. When Coach Cook left & no one again had the decency to let anyone know he was leaving, Michael had to quickly fill the position. And of course, he had to fill it in house for a whole host of reasons other than it actually being a God-ordained thing.
ReplyDeleteWho in their right mind would put a young 23 year old female over a teen ministry with excessively hormonal teenage boys? Further, what life experience could she bring to counsel teenagers?? It was a disaster waiting to happen & apparently it did. Amanda Vaculik was way too young & inexperienced to handle the complexities of teen problems. Adults like myself with degrees for dealing with teens find it most challenging, so what was Michael thinking putting a young cute bubbly hormonal female over the teen ministry? Was he doing it to keep someone quiet to hide other misdeeds in the church???
And really, teens need a weekly ministry, not a once a month ministry just because that's the way Michael thinks it should be. In fact, the teen ministry never started until Michael's kids became teenagers. And a married couple should have been over the teen ministry, not a single looking to find love in all the wrong places young 20 something female. But then again, Michael was too busy dealing with his own issues & Robert was too busy facing a midlife crisis & looking for lust in all the wrong places. And well, the rest of the staff was too busy trying to please the "Poppa" of the house so as not to incur his wrath.
In a nutshell, there were so many foundationally wrong things with Michael's staunch viewpoint on teens & how they should be treated that he should have opened his eyes a long time ago. At what point do you not notice the number of teen pregnancies occurring in your church?? Oh that's right, you just sweep that under the rug too & hope it all goes away or that nobody notices. Ok, the music minister's teenage daughter was pregnant & he & his wife are in the midst of a divorce...get a grip on the insanity.
It is a sad day indeed that members continue to live in blind ignorance of all that is occurring right before their very eyes. A large number of solid members have left & continue to leave -- wake up people, we aren't all off in our spirits. Perhaps Cornerstonians are under the influence of a very off spirit from their "poppa" in the house.
I would be very leery of sending my son or daughter to any impartation days for sons & daughters at Cornerstone in June. I would fear what is actually being imparted or should I say indoctrinated to them.
Anon May 22 -
ReplyDeleteFunny you mentioned being a nameless soul in the crowd. I SO enjoyed my time at CStone when I was just that.
And yes - tithe if you want - but if you don't, you will not be put into ministry (or you will be released from ministry)
But no - the gospel isn't always "spot on" - but I suppose no one anywhere is going to agree with everything 100%...
You meantioned it takes "deprogramming" - I prefer to stay away from +anything+ that takes deprogramming. I also know that an individual cannot unsee what has been seen.
So, Cornerstone is the place for you if you can stay away from the ministry and staff.
I went to Cornerstone Toledo for awhile and heard Bishop Michael Pitts preach alot of stuff that I could not find in the Bible. He seems to just make stuff up to get money from folks to live high on the hog (him and Robert). People were throwing money on the altar and he was promising them some big increase or new level or something. I never went back after that. What a circus.
ReplyDeleteGet ready, get ready, get ready everybody for the upcoming Sons & Daughters Impartation July 12-14! Bring your sons & daughters for an awesome time of impartation - NOT!!
ReplyDeleteSounds scary to me and very cult-like. I am sure they will have some special revelation & anointing to impart to the unsuspecting souls who show up.
I say run now and keep your kids away from the madness.
Nothing like occult impartation on out children...
ReplyDeleteThey practice magic and don't even know it.
A bunch of us left Cornerstone Toledo as well because of these weird events that could not be found in the Bible not to mention the fact that everything seemed to be centered around money for Bishop Michael Pitts. Some of these events they even charged a ticket fee for?????? what the heck.
ReplyDeletemy advice, find a healthy place that is not focused on a man and his brother but rather Jesus alone.
I'm looking for some answers. I still attend Cornerstone and have children. I have read the comments on this blog and the most recent comments. I have considered leaving but have a lot at stake seeing how I have children involved there.
ReplyDeleteI guess I would like to know what exactly people find scary or cult-like about bringing your children to an impartation conference. It all sounds like a good thing to me. After all, Bishop has talked a lot about impartation and the laying on of hands and transferring things from one generation to another. What is so bad about that? We should be imparting spiritual things to our children shouldn't we? Perhaps more churches should be doing this to help our children rather than slamming Cornerstone all the time.
I am looking for serious & biblical comments as to what may be wrong with an impartation conference. As for now, I don't know what to do, but I am open and willing to listen and will pray about things if someone has helpful advice for me.
@ Seeking Help -- I can't offer you chapter and verse because I don't know anything about this conference being that I left CS over 3 years ago. But you as the parent, I believe, has the ultimate responsibility of imparting to your children. If you are considering leaving and are beginning to "see" what's happening both spiritually and physically within CS's walls, why allow your children to experience something when they are unable to fully "discern" spiritual things for themselves? At the very least, should you decide to let them attend, I suggest that you go with them to see for yourself what's being "imparted"...then all of you go home; meditate on God's Word to determine if what was being "imparted" was God's Truth (versus man made mumbo jumbo). Another thought to consider -- if your children or the ministry staff don't feel that it's appropriate for you to attend, then that's a sure 'nuff red flag to not let them go. Hope this helps.
ReplyDeleteTo Seeking Help:
ReplyDeletePart I
Thank you for your comment. You ask a very good question…
Allow me to clarify: There is absolutely nothing wrong with gathering our young people together and taking time to pray over their lives. I agree with you 100% in that regard.
My real question is: Are “prayer services” (of any kind) enough to shield our youth from falling subject to the temptations of our day? Not to mention parents being falsely led and encouraged to assume that a certain “network impartation” will somehow safeguard their children and supernaturally transfer a "blessing" that will somehow equip them to reach their destiny.
Friend, this is nothing more than a “classic” Cornerstone attempt at maintaining (assumed) apostolic “appearances” of spiritual fruit. It’s like placing an elaborate spread of fake fruit on a fancy table that’s been staged for a magazine shoot. It only looks REAL to the eager subscribers flipping through the pages…
If an individual has never been exposed to any other leadership outside the walls of Cornerstone (or even true Godly leadership at that), how would they know the difference?? We must ask ourselves, “What am I currently using as a GAUGE to determine the conclusions that I come to?” One must use common sense to judge the fruit and TRUST the voice of the Holy Spirit who leads you into all truth. There will always be a confirmation friend. Just ask for it. And remember that WISDOM is the principal thing.
The truth of the matter is:
Michael and Robert have always been good at putting on spiritual platform events to compensate for what they are lacking in TRUE APOLSTOLIC and PASTORAL FRUIT.
Do you see an emphasis on: ACCOUNTABILITY, FELLOWSHIP, LIFESTYLE BY EXAMPLE, DISCIPLESHIP, BLAMELESS REPUTATION (personal track record for the community) and consistent display of the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT in leadership? There is a saying that goes: You cannot give to others what you lack in abundance of yourself. And sadly, this is exactly WHY the sheep have been and will continue to be…Scattered. The wells of Cornerstone are contaminated.
Ask yourself this question:
EXACTLY HOW have all the “impartations” of this special “generational anointing” affected the personal lives of the youth and families in the church?? Again, look at the PRACTICAL RESULTS… THE REAL FRUIT and not the “theatrics” of appearances.
Part II
ReplyDeleteA “transferable anointing” is neither seen nor practiced anywhere in New Testament Scripture. (As I explained in earlier comments above.) Where do you find in scripture the Apostles instructing the church on how to “obtain or transfer anointings” or “mantles” from one person to another?
Corinthians reads, “Now HE who establishes us with you in Christ and HAS ANOINTED US IS GOD who has also sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”
**We certainly are not glorifying the Lord when we look to men to transfer to us a spiritual impartation that can ONLY be received by an intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit –this is nothing more than a lack of understanding and faith. And this is what we are teaching our youth?? Rely upon a “generational” anointing?? Scripture and verse please.
In Romans 1:11 Paul says, “For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;”
The gift Paul wanted to impart was spiritual, not only in the sense of being in the spiritual realm but in the sense that it had its source in the Holy Spirit. Because he was writing to believers, Paul was NOT speaking about the free gift of salvation through Christ. Nor could he have been speaking about the gifts he discusses in Romans 12, because those gifts are bestowed DIRECTLY by the Spirit Himself, not through a human instrument. He must therefore have been using the term spiritual gift in its broadest sense, referring to any kind of divinely-empowered spiritual benefit he could bring to the Roman Christians by preaching, teaching, exhorting, comforting, praying, guiding, and disciplining.
Whatever particular blessings the apostle had in mind, they were NOT of the superficial, self-centered sort that many church members are taught to seek after today. He was not interested in tickling their ears or satisfying their religious curiosity. Nor was Paul filled with the NARCISSISM that would be required to even suggest such things.
Seeking help, at the end of the day…. True generational impartation is not something simply “transferred” by the laying on of hands. It sounds “spiritual”, but it simply is not. True IMPARTATION comes as a result of getting your hands dirty through relationship…. Not just from “oil” but from “sweat”. Sacrificing your TIME and living a life WORTHY to be looked up to as a Godly role model to those coming up behind you.
Which is easier: Running around the church laying hands on young people and then going home OR taking the TIME to walk along side them, leading them BY EXAMPLE? It's called living a life of Character and Integrity. BOTH prayer and relationship are needed.
It’s a sacrifice many are not willing to make. We are to train up a child.. teaching them by PRINCIPLE and by EXAMPLE.
You can speak a "generational blessing" over your child all day long, but if you are not raising that child to Fear the Lord and follow his Word... then what good is it, if they don't have access to it through a relationship with Christ?? "And IF YE BE CHRIST'S, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." -- Gal 3:29.
The Bible says to lay hands on no one suddenly. So if you have witnessed what has/is going on behind closed doors with those in leadership positions, then you can answer this question. What exactly is being “imparted”? And do I want my child exposed to this??
To echo AB-- I certainly wouldn't limit this to a special "conference", but if you are sensing a warning in your spirit in any other area of church involvement --don't ignore it. Test the spirits.
At the end of the day, whatever is imparted shall be PERPETUATED...
FYI...
ReplyDeleteas far as the impartation service is concerned, the parents are absolutely expected to attend. The children are not taken to a back room where the beaver will be laying hands on them. No mumbo jumbo...
Question, is all friut visible immediately? You asked a question about can anyone see the friut of these impartations? Similar to prophecy, it doesnt happen as you walk out of the building does it? so the fruit comes in time so it isnt fair to say there is no fruit that results from the impartation because you dont see it, and actually, none of you are even there anymore so how do you know if there is friut in these childrens lives...
ReplyDeleteYou are not being fair here.. you are leaving the impression that becasue YOU dont see fruit there is none..but YOU do not attend and have been gone longer than these services have been going on, in fact there has only been one so far so how can you even comment on any of it....just speaking the truth in love of course....be fair in your comments. If you are going to slam a church and a group of people then get the facts correct...
To enough already:
ReplyDeleteI believe my comment was quite clear: The problem doesn’t simply lie with having an “impartation” conference for the youth, but rather the overall mentality of “impartation” that Michael and Robert have used to control and manipulate the GOOD members of Cornerstone for years now. Their fantasy land version of “impartation” and “apostleship” has not only adversely affected the lives of the youth, but the adults as well. Just look around you…. how many divorces, teen pregnancies, out of wedlock children, and addiction issues does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop, to see what’s INSIDE?
Friend, you speak as if we were outsiders who had no experience within the church walls long enough to judge the fruit. Please show us where we are bearing false witness. This blog exists to directly correct the false teachings and spiritual abuse that has severely affected the faith and lives of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. IF you are not blessed nor edified by what we’ve shared, feel free to stop tuning in. I’m sure Michael will provide a nice “rebuttal” message for you the following service.
In regards to your “ripening fruit” analogy. I would say that most long-term members have attended anywhere from 10-20+ yrs… so YES, that would be plenty of time to judge the FRUIT or lack thereof. So painting the picture that we have “hastily” judged the matter simply does not hold water.
Wow, well said explanation Speaking Truth in Love. You are absolutely right that there is much more to imparting into the lives of our children than a simple laying on of hands or a prayer. When I look back on my own teenage life before I was even saved, God preserved my life by sending couples into my life who became for me the nurturing mentors that I did not have in my parents. It took a lot of getting down & dirty so to speak to help me work through all of the issues of my abusive home life. I believe that even as a teen, God was wooing me to Him.
ReplyDeleteSo, prayer is good and laying on of hands can be good when used properly and not as a be all end all as to say it will impart something magical to our children to make them become more spiritual beings. It does not work that way at all. We need more christian adults to be mentors and disciple our teens and walk through some things with them. But first and foremost, they must see lifestyles of love and Christ-like behavior, and not a do as I say, not as I do mentality. Teens are far more perceptive than we give them credit for and they are watching and know when adults are living by double standards.
So,I agree with Speaking Truth in Love. We must lead our children by proper example and nurture a relationship with Christ first and foremost in them and not just resort to impartations that make them feel good & spiritually empowered, when it reality, it may be nothing more than smoke and mirrors to get people all excited and take in more offerings in expectation of greater blessing and higher levels.
To Enough Already,
ReplyDeleteJust a thought. You said, Speaking Truth in Love wasn't being fair because he/she is making the impression that if we don't see any fruit, then there is none.
Well, I don't know about you, but I have never eaten of a fruit I have not seen. Do you know of any invisible fruit?? That makes no sense. The very nature of fruit is that it can be seen, smelled, touched and tasted. So, how can a christian bear fruit that cannot be seen?? Sure, some things take time, but a fruit of some sort is seen whether that fruit be a good fruit or a bad fruit, it is there somewhere. And if something is manifested through a laying on of hands, is it really fruit? Fruit takes time to grow. It is not imparted. And when growing fruit, there is a process. The seed must be watered and once the vine or tree begins to grow, it must be nutured and given the proper amount of sunlight, water, pruning etc. in order to bear fruit. The farmer does not come along and lay hands on the seed and walk away and say a prayer every now and again and hope it all works out to bear fruit.
It is no different for our children spiritually. I would like to know chapter and verse Michael's scriptural basis for this impartation ceremony. It all sounds too Brian Tamaki for me. Google his name sometime and see what you find on him. Michael planted some funny seeds in Brian's life and boy has he been imparting some strange things to the members of his church, and they have made him rich because they believe he is their spiritual father and they pay a hefty financial pledge to him & wear rings to show their allegience. Don't think Michael wears that big old bishop's ring for no reason. He has pledged himself to the ICC and David Huskins, no matter what he says to explain it. Jesus never wore any big fancy rings to show his allegience to the Father. No, rather he bore stripes on his back for us in obedience to the Father.
Michael makes it all sound so good and so spiritual on the surface, but unless you know of these other things and the Word, you have no idea of the mumbo jumbo gumbo soup Michael has served up through the years. He has mixed all manner of things with the Word of God and thrown it out as revelation. Any man who has his own brand of revelation that no one else has is a false prophet and you should run the other way. If it doesn't line up with the Word it is not to be received, period.
"Well, I don't know about you, but I have never eaten of a fruit I have not seen."
ReplyDeleteGenesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Even when there IS fruit - be careful about what you are ingesting.
@Looking to Jesus - I love what you have written. Most CStone doctrine doesn't hold up to even mild examination. You very succinctly exposed the flaw of the impartation service and the "man made revelation". The Brian Tamaki connection is something I'm sure most CStone members are ignorant of, as well. When you draw the line from Huskins to Paulk to Tamaki to Long and on and on, it should indicate something to current members. I became aware of the Tamaki connection in 2008 and found that the rabbit hole runs deeper and deeper still.
ReplyDelete@Speaking truth in Love - Thanks again for the excellent (and kind) explanations to the comments of current members. Deep down inside I think the Holy Spirit is calling to them, desiring to expose the false doctrine. I pray that they listen and obey his voice.
ReplyDeleteThis is an article I found on Tamaki and Pitts:
ReplyDeletehttp://idiotsinpower.blogspot.com/2009/10/brian-tamaki.html
Quoting a portion of the article:
She told the Weekend Herald that the "First Fruits" donation was spoken about between American minister Michael Pitts and Bishop Tamaki privately before the idea was discussed with other Destiny pastors at the Tamaki family home.
Soon after, the congregation were encouraged to give personally to Bishop Tamaki which was justified with scripture, which Ms Stewart says was taken out of historical context.
"The Bible was being used to manipulate people to give money for his personal use to fund his flashy lifestyle," said Ms Stewart. "And the people blindly accept what Brian says."
Dr James Harding, a lecturer of theology at Otago University and a Christian, said the "First Fruits" offering was given in the Old Testament era because the Levite priests had no land to make a living from.
"It is somewhat of a strain, quite a stretch I think, to use passages from the Old Testament to justify this. I'd be very interested to hear how they justify it theologically."
The Herald this week revealed that 700 male members of Destiny Church swore a "covenant oath"of loyalty and obedience to Bishop Tamaki at the church's annual conference in Auckland last weekend.
The oath requires them to stand when Bishop Tamaki and Hannah enter a room; surprise the couple with gifts; and when dining with Bishop Tamaki start eating only after he has started.
A church document titled "Protocols and Requirements Between Spiritual Father & His Spiritual Sons" encourages the men to tell others of their love for Bishop Tamaki.
Oh my. It seems that Michael Pitts and all of these other very important men who like to be referred to as "spiritual Fathers" must be a sight for sore eyes when they all meet together. I mean really all of the blathering on about how important they are and all of the fancy protocols when the commoner christians are in their presence. I mean all of the going on and on about how much everyone loves them....
ReplyDeletePerhaps that is why the Cornerstone members were encouraged to lavish monetary gifts on Michael when he turned 33 & 40. You do the math, if 1,000 people gave Michael $40 apiece for his bithday, that's an easy tax free $40,000. He was also lavished upon for his 33rd birthday as well I believe. And to think I was caught up in that nonsense as we paraded through a birthday line to lavish our monetary gifts upon Michael and shake hands with him. I guess the money went to his head and caused him to need excessive alcohol to soothe his pain.
Wake up people. These spiritual fathers are corrupt to the core and living life large at your expense. Brian Tamaki is a fraud and a thief. How do these "men of Gawd" get away with such thievery and ignorant christians keep feeding the corruption.
Please, somebody stop the madness!!
Don't get me started on the first fruits offering (money grab). That is a crock. If one decides to drag one special offering out of the old testament, why are not all of the special offerings enacted. I never saw any first fruits offerings used exclusively for their intended purpose (albeit the purpose was skewed in the first place, from a biblical perspective). You'll have that every single time when a church refuses financial disclosure.
ReplyDeleteRegarding old testament giving practices, I offer that we must include ALL of the Levitical laws if we accept the first fruit offering.
At the end of three years all the tithe of that year was to be gathered and laid up within the “gates” and that a festival was to be held in which the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, together with the Levite, were to partake. ref: Deut 26:10-13 I've never seen THAT observed! Just "giving to get where you're going" or whatever rhymes for that year. That first fruit thing is a nasty one. Not because the church is taking your money. Honestly I don't care about that. What I DO care about, is that the first fruits offering teaches that you should give in order to get. It promotes giving as a means for gain. If God has freely given to us all things, then we are free to give, expecting/needing nothing in return. Love gives, expecting/requiring nothing in return. Selfishness (motivation for first fruits offering) sees giving as a means into God's wallet. To coerce him into getting off his money and giving some to you. How sick is it, to have to instigate God into releasing blessing upon his children. It's heresy and if you really read your bible, you know it.
I am sorry to change the subject just for a moment. I was told that Cornerstone sent out letters asking the people to start giving 30%. Did anyone else hear this or even seen the letter?
ReplyDeleteIt often astounds me how church members so willingly overlook obvious evidence of severe moral and spiritual decay. The Spirit bears witness; is anyone listening? Since it appears that church members are no longer spiritually discerning; The church been handed moral and sexual depravity on a silver platter!! Can they not see, either. How much is ENOUGH?? It is because MP has gotten away with other questionable activity that he seems empowered to get away with more. Unfortunately, many wives have suffered at the hands of Cornerstone leadership. If anyone reads the Bible, they will find that Jesus HIMSELF cursed the tree that was SUPPOSED to produce fruit. It was expected and when it did not, HE cursed it...FOREVER...Ministry is SUPPOSED to produce fruit..Rock on Penny...Even when a tree "appears" to produce fruit it should not be trusted for consumption/ God has spoken, we are supposed to know the difference. It concerns me that so many are so willing to turn a blind eye toward such obvious abuses of power within the church. The church is feeding the beast.
ReplyDeleteAgain, if you want to bring the beast down you have to unveil the lie of the tithe. It is the root that gives Bishop Michael Pitts his platform. Of course, this comment won't be approved like the last one wasn't approved for post so we can keep addressing the fruit I guess and never get anywhere here in regards to trying to cripple this abusive system. If people stop tithing (which they are not required to do under the NT) then they (MP and RP) can't pay the bills, can't turn on the lights and power the microphone, and you take away the voice of this charlatan. If we are going to spend time here teaching people the Bible then why is it that we can't address the false teaching of tithing in the Church today? Makes no sense. I left because someone showed me this false teaching and thank God for it! If this doesn't go up here I am done here at this site as you are not touching on the ROOT of the problem.
ReplyDeleteAmen Drew! Thank you and everyone else for your insightful comments.
ReplyDeleteThe problem within many churches like Cornerstone, is that they are currently being led by “Yesterday’s Man”. One who USE to be “Today’s Man”, whose leadership was once identified by FRESH ANOINTING.
King Saul is a perfect example. He was once anointed and God used him mightily, but he became disobedient when he began to take himself too seriously. In I Samuel 13, He did not wait for Samuel to offer the burnt offering and fellowship offerings. He began to believe he as king, could do anything he chose to do. In his haste and pride, he began to take things into his own hands. Then we read in I Samuel 15, Saul “spared the best of the sheep and cattle” when God commanded ALL of it to be sacrificed. It was at THAT point that Samuel said, “Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you as king.” Saul’s second folly ratified his first flagrant act. It was upon the heels of this disobedience that God spoke to Samuel and told him to anoint the next king –David.
King Saul became yesterday’s man, but continued to wear the crown. He was yesterday’s man, a has-been, but continued to prophesy. He was yeserday’s man but still sat in the seat of influence and power. How? He was coasting on yesterday’s anointing. But he forfeited the FRESH ANOINTING that comes from unfeigned obedience. One can continue to ride on their gifts and words from former days of glory…. but in the depths of their soul, they KNOW. “When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him.”
Friends, after this it was not a question of "if", but of "when?"
It was at that point that an unrepentant and desperate Saul opened himself up to the Witch at Endor. He began to consult “spiritualists” who could guide and comfort him during his plight of insecurity and obscurity. (Kind of reminds me of modern day “prophets” that are invited to speak words of “affirmation” and “success” – all to keep the show going at the expense of the sheep of course.)
A hallmark sign of “yesterday’s man” is found in his messages. Often he will “copy and paste”, creating "frankenstein" messages as he gleans from others out in the field and/or he’ll begin to reteach and repackage a lot of his old messages. Such men can preach relevant messages of truth, but they (as a person) have ceased to be relevant. They are saying the same old thing they have uttered in years gone by when it probably had some impact, if not power. But it has ceased to carry weight today. Such a person often struggles to prove himself, trying to show their relevance and keep up with "appearances" of the former days of glory. But the power has gone. Sadly, without repentance, healing, and restoration… such a person is a “has-been” although he or she is still around, sitting on the platform. At some point every member has to come to terms with what has become of what use to be... either by leaving or justifying it.
The Lord said to Samuel, "How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way…”
Amen & Amen Speaking Truth in Love!! You have succintly described exactly what is occurring with leadership @ Cornerstone particularly Michael Pitts. He has lost the anointing he once had & it can't be more obvious that he is merely re-packaging former messages that once held power, but no more. He has nothing new to give, no new revelation as he once had. You can tune in at any time and hear an old message replayed to fit the current situation he is defending. Your description of Frankenstein messages is so right on. I also find it amazing how many times he uses the word revelation in a message. Everything is revelation as if he is trying to drill that into everyone's mind that they are filled with revelation because of the words he is speaking.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame that Michael continues to spend his energy, in angry defensive messages, aimed at us out here who simply don't understand them in there, or worse yet, "who hold ugliness in our heart". I guess defending the truth of the Word and calling out untruths and sin is considered holding ugliness in our hearts.
However, when using the passage about Saul,it can't be any clearer as to what is happening. Cornerstone has become about externals & appearances. Now the buzz words are "How about that graduating class of 2011?" referring to the first Global School of Ministry graduating class. I guess those individuals are the special ones now as they have arrived at a place few others have. We all know about the haves and have nots & the accepted ones of Cornerstone in terms of being able to serve there.
It is indeed a shame that the church has lost its ability to discern & spends more time defending Saul (Michael) than filling their horns with true oil and moving on their way.
To Anonymous 10:40 AM,
ReplyDeleteI don't know about the letters requiring or asking for a 30% giving. When I was still attending Cornerstone, there were some pretty ugly rumors out there about W2's and so on, but I was never asked for my W2's - not sure they could get away with that one anyway.
Maybe they are low on funds due to the declining membership, the poor econonmy and the fact that God is not magic & money doesn't fall from the sky even when you give in offerings. The average Toledoan is struggling to make ends meet and to feed their family. I know Michael always said, "If it's your last $20, I wouldn't claim that and hang onto it. I'd sow it because what's $20 gonna get you anyway?" I used to think that sounded good, until I was out from under that guilt and condemnation. That $20 may be all a mother has to feed or buy diapers for her baby & sowing it in an offering out of pressure, is in my opinion, not being a good steward when your family needs food. Let those who are blessed and able to sow, sow, not expecting in return.
In fact I would challenge those who are blessed to sow top dollar offerings at Cornerstone in hopes of getting a 100 fold return & favor (from who?? MP & RP), to sow that money to those in need in the congregation. I know for fact there are families in dire need who attend Cornerstone, but are too afraid to ask for help as they know what the answer will be. Furthermore, they are afraid to ask because they don't want to appear as if they aren't blessed when indeed they are. If they are saved, they are blessed spiritually beyond measure.
The sad thing is that the American mega church has come to equate blessing as monetary and material, no matter how many token lines Michael or any other may throw in to say they aren't just talking about money or material gain when it comes to being blessed. Try being a person in need there and ask for monetary help and see how far you get - nowhere. "The church is not a bank!"
So, back to your question about the 30%, who knows. Maybe they had an offering where Michael was asking for a special 30% and the 30 had some special meaning that he drummed up. As someone said, there is always some set amount and a rhyme or some other mumbo jumbo attached to it as if Michael studies numerology (witchcraft) or something.
It is so amazing the things I used to believe sitting under that ministry - things that I now know fall under numerology and Jezebelic spirits of control. So blessed and glad to be gone & still successful too - imagine that - out from under covering and successful. Who'd of thunk it after all of the fearmongering teaching we got while there for nearly 20 years???
God gave you a brain for a reason folks and a spirit to discern - use them and stop relying on a man to do your thinking for you.
I heard that Paula White takes up a special $1,000 offering in which you get some really special favor blessing. So, what happens for the person on unemployment who doesn't have $1,000? Do they get the chump blessing? And if God tells us not to show favoritism in the church, how does that work with all of these special offerings and blessings with Him?? His blessings are only for the rich and famous??
ReplyDeletePeople of God, it is time to wake up and see the nonsense and realize this garbage is not in line with God's character or His Word in its entirety.
Thank you Speaking Truth in Love for this awesome blog!!
I was a member of the church for over 20 years. I gave in many special offerings with the hopes that all my troubles would be over. It never happened. The funny thing is that I never really got mad about it. I just accepted it. Even today I am not mad at MP or PR. I have been gone for about 2 years now. I knew I had to leave but I was never upset or mad at them. Am I still brain washed? I started reading this blog thinking I would never contribute anything to it. I guess I felt guilty about writing anything bad or negative about them. The more I read the more I realize that I knew most of those things for a long time. So many familiar stories. Most of you probably know me. What a strange thing it is. I thought I found a small piece of heaven but it has turned into a mess. Am I wrong. It seemed pure to me at the beginning. When we were still in the Burn Hill plaza I really thought we would "take our city for Jesus". That never happened. Was I deceived from the beginning? I left my old church for what I thought was the full belief in the bible. Faith, power, miracles. I saw some of that in the beginning. Did I waste 20 years of my life? I thought for the first time in my life I was truly serving God. I was in ministry for 19 of those 20 years. I was so thrilled to be doing something. It ended up burning me out and finally leaving the church. I don't know. I guess I am just letting my feelings come out.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 9:54AM - NO you did not waste time if you still have a relationship with Jesus (the Author and FINISHER of YOUR faith)...I was born and raised catholic before coming to CStone, I served for 21 years in the catholic church in youth ministy and as a lector (reader of the scripture)...do I regret their lessons, no because it was foundational...it was where God began talking to me through His Holy Spirit and as I walked with God I found my way into a true relationship with Him. To this day, 20 years later, I am still walking with God and allow His Holy Spirit to guide me (regardless of what building I worship Him in)...I serve God and God alone and I go where He tells me. If you left and prayed, I believe God directed you (Proverbs 3:5-6) don't look back and second guess...move forward in faith knowing everything has a season and God's purpose may not be revealed in that season or time (Ecclesiastes 3) but know that everything works out for the good for those who love HIM and who have been called according to HIS purpose (Romans 8:28)...I know each step we take, every trial we go through, and every moutain we overcome builds our faith and strengthens us to finish this race...I will pray for you and hope as you read HIS Word you find comfort knowing you sowed into God's Kingdom and not man's as you serve HIM and HIM alone!
ReplyDeleteBTW: Anon 5/31 @ 10:40 - No there was no letter from CStone asking for 30% now or ever since I've been there (15 years).
A really good article on why people stay with fallen or less than perfect pastors. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/27/church.scandal/
ReplyDelete