Dear Former Members: Maybe you just left or perhaps you have been gone for awhile now. Either way, I feel it is time to highlight the HEART of the Matter. So I write this article, in hopes that not only will you find it helpful in your journey forward…but that ultimately you will be able to draw purpose from those Precious Things that the Holy Spirit desires to give you. For truly the Hand of God is yet forming us, as He reveals to us individually --the true HEART of the matter.
What determines the destiny of any particular movement? What determines what will become of those that LEAD that movement and those that FOLLOW that movement? The answer to both is complex, and yet simple. Keep in mind, there are (2) sides to every coin.
Allow me to preface this article by stating this:
A movement's destiny is not found in how "safe" the structure is. Some could argue that it's the "system" that is to be blamed. There may be some truth to this statement. We know that certain unhealthy elements of any church "structure" will ultimately play a role in the future of that movement. Perhaps there wasn't any true biblical accountability among the leadership... While others could argue that "organized Christianity" altogether is the real problem... and if we would just meet without all the “bells and whistles”, then we could avoid the pitt-falls that we once fell into. There may be some truth to this statement. However, let’s hit REWIND for a minute and go back to the beginning…to when that movement first began.
First we will discuss the LEADER:
Let’s take for example a young man who has a heart to follow God’s will and he is instructed to begin a ministry in a particular city. 9 times out of 10, he is just simply excited that God has entrusted him to preach the Word and reach out to those in need. He will not have “all the answers”, so he will have to rely upon the Holy Spirit and any experience/knowledge he would have at that particular point in his life.
I would venture to say, that in the beginning phases of that ministry…..this young man fervently prayed over the direction of each step he was facing. He probably went all over town, walking in and out of grocery stores to humbly invite people to the church gathering. I’m sure his excitement and zeal were contagious to those he greeted. In the beginning, it was His church. In the beginning, they were His people. And soon those people began trickling in, receiving salvation and deliverance. The Word originally spoken to this young man was actually coming to pass as he pointed the members to follow after Christ.
Before long the fruitful movement began to grow and elders would need to be appointed to accommodate the growing demand of needs among the people. An official praise and worship team was formed and ministry departments were created. It appeared that the “dream” was coming together... So, at what particular point did things start to change? When the ministry was still small and simple, or later when the ministry grew along with the offerings? If we polled everyone today, there would be a lot of different opinions. Some of those view points would be correct, as hindsight is always 20/20. However, for the purpose of examining the “heart of the matter”: I’d like us to focus on the ROOT of the problem, and not just the symptoms.
When do things start to go in the wrong direction?
I have found that the answer to this question is not ultimately found in the “size” of the church OR the offerings. The answer does not lie in the particular type of “structure” nor “organization” a movement adheres to.
I have found that the answer to this question is not ultimately found in the “size” of the church OR the offerings. The answer does not lie in the particular type of “structure” nor “organization” a movement adheres to.
The root answer is found in one place and in one place only –in the hidden recesses of the HEART of the man who leads that group. For better or worse, it is the hidden motives of HIS HEART that dictate what that movement will become.
And for those who FOLLOWED, you must take the time to examine the hidden parts of your own heart in the process. This is for your good... to take those precious "lessons learned" with you and NOT become defined by the devastation. For this is the true HEART of the Matter…that ALL must face.
I want you to think about what I am about to say…
I want you to think about what I am about to say…
It is very evident that we belonged to what BECAME an “Authoritarian Movement”. It slowly progressed into this as the leader(s) increasingly required UNQUESTIONED SUBMISSION TO “their” AUTHORITY. The overall sense conveyed from the platform was, “There is something we are part of that is greater than we are, and at all cost, IT comes first –NO questions asked.” Members were eventually indoctrinated to “Consult your Covering” and to NEVER commit the unspeakable sin of “questioning headship”. Over time, the “Pastor” would slowly begin to remove himself as a real shepherd who fed, gathered, carried, and gently led. You can still make an appearance twice a week to preach AT the sheep….but this is a far cry from taking the time to personally lay down your life for them. Big difference.
As stated in previous articles: A Spiritually Abusive Leader is one who uses their Position and their Teachings to CONTROL, MANIPULATE, AND DOMINATE the sheep. Therefore, we were apart of what BECAME a Sustained, Spiritually Abusive Church.
But, HOW did this happen?
The MIND often chooses to IGNORE, what the HEART tries to tell us many times. The HEART knows all too well, what the MIND doesn't want to hear. Things will begin to change course... the moment a "leader" chooses to IGNORE whose Nature he is reflecting to the people.
Paul the Apostle said, "Follow me, as I [continue to] follow Christ." not "Follow me indefinitely, regardless of my fruit." Ultimately, what determines the FUTURE of any work is based upon the amount of work God has done in the HEARTS of those who lead. In order to know this, you must ask the Lord this question: "Am I involved in something that STILL reflects the Nature of God or is it rather a man's psychological need to control others?" The Bible says in Luke 6:45-- "For the mouth speaks what the HEART is full of." So we CAN KNOW for certain what a man's heart is full of... simply by listening to the words that proceed out of his mouth.
So at some point, there came a time when this FRUIT was revealed to you. What did you do with it? As Christians, we have the Spirit of God and His Word to judge what we are seeing within the church. However, sometimes we underestimate our own ability to hear from God --eventually training ourselves to ignore those warning signs. Why? Because “that outcome” would be devastating to accept. And no ones wants to believe that something they have placed so much investment in, may actually have changed course during their time investing. How many times did you rationalize in your mind, what you were seeing? How many times did you have to “down play” what you were sensing in your Spirit? Over the course of time, WE also chose to IGNORE the “nature” being demonstrated and AGREED to play “Follow the Leader” –each for our own reasons. Does that make us “bad”? Certainly not! However, this is one of those precious “lessons learned” that you will take with you:
Never allow the counsel of your Spirit to abdicate to any other counsel. Not to another man’s will, not your own will. ALWAYS listen to and TRUST the voice of the Holy Spirit on the inside of you. Sometimes this means enduring the possibility of loss…but the loss of NOT listening –will always be a much greater price to pay in the end.
With that being said, what happens to these scattered sheep AFTER they leave and finally come to terms with what they were subjected to?
Members don’t leave Cornerstone because they are “hurt”. This is a damage control tactic set up to “explain” why so many have hit the EXIT doors. The TRUTH IS --Members become HURT AFTER LEAVING, because they have begun the process of connecting the dots. Truth (freeing as it may be) isn’t always easy to accept…
Members don’t leave Cornerstone because they are “hurt”. This is a damage control tactic set up to “explain” why so many have hit the EXIT doors. The TRUTH IS --Members become HURT AFTER LEAVING, because they have begun the process of connecting the dots. Truth (freeing as it may be) isn’t always easy to accept…
In the beginning, you will go through an initial period of dis-illusionment. This is the “unveiling process” in which you will begin to sort through what was presented to you. INITIALLY, this will be quite a disappointing chapter in the healing process --as you realize that the “bill of goods” sold to you was NOT exactly as it was presented. This is very traumatic for most long-time, dedicated members. As you begin to realize that your VALUE, was only ever determined by the level of submission you gave to their agenda. This is the sad reality of what came to be...but freeing as the clouds begin to move over your head and clarity comes to you. Things WILL begin to make sense…you’ll have a lot of those “ahhh” moments. And at the end of the day, there will be GOOD that comes of this –but it will be up to YOU to take the “good” and leave the “bad” behind. There is a difference between temporary disillusionment and permanent destruction.
This brings me to our last point:
Although perhaps “men” may have hurt you and heaped great disappointment upon you --YOU alone however, will be responsible for what you do with that hurt and disappointment. During the stages of healing, you will experience a range of emotions –don’t ignore them…deal with them. This is all apart of the process of healing and is to be expected. Many factors will play into how long it takes for you to process everything; much of which depends upon how much of your IDENTITY was wrapped up in Cornerstone. Just remember to be patient with yourself and TRUST the individual path that the Holy Spirit will lead you on.
It’s not what men do to you, but how YOU REACT to what men do to you that determines how you will survive and live upon this planet.
I said all of that to say this:
There is a chance you could be permanently shipwrecked. Why? Because there will be a temptation to become BITTER once you begin to realize and accept the truth. And once you bite off the fruit of bitterness, it's hard to put it down. But remember, these precious lessons have been brought to you, for YOUR BENEFIT. They have been brought to you by the sovereign hand of the Lord. Things WILL get better...things will make sense --but it's AS you move forward that they do.
There is a chance you could be permanently shipwrecked. Why? Because there will be a temptation to become BITTER once you begin to realize and accept the truth. And once you bite off the fruit of bitterness, it's hard to put it down. But remember, these precious lessons have been brought to you, for YOUR BENEFIT. They have been brought to you by the sovereign hand of the Lord. Things WILL get better...things will make sense --but it's AS you move forward that they do.
Bitterness comes, not from the injustices that have happened to you, but from the heart’s inability to accept those hardships and to surrender those tragic years to the Lord.
So...there will be (2) types of people in our situation: Those who define themselves by what they experienced -or- those who know the experience was GIVEN by God for a greater purpose.
Which one will you be?
Which one will you be?
Perhaps the real heART of the matter for ALL is this:
We must continually surrender our heart to the hands of the Potter, to allow Him to shape it..so that our life may reflect the beautiful purpose He has intended.
Great insights. One thing that helped me was the understanding that MP loves to talk about the dominion of Genesis 1:26. Notice that God DID give Adam dominion over the 1) birds of the air, 2) beasts of the field and 3) fish of the sea. He gave mankind dominion (authority) over all the elements of earth AND the animals BUT NEVER over humans. This is conveniently left out of Cornerstone theology. When I realised that I was trying to be accountable to someone who didn't have my best interests at heart, but rather his, I left. It was very painful to think the man I cared for as a spiritual leader cared nothing for me personally but only what I could provide. As painful as it was, I would have been a fool to stay.
ReplyDeleteI think you hit the nail on the head. I think what I have been struggling with is the church I came to in the beginning is not the same one I go to now. I have been sensing a difference in the house for sometime now. I just could never put my finger on what that difference was. It never occurred to me that his heart had changed.
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that he is gone a lot more than he used to be, but we have been taught as you all know that we have to be mature enough to release him and be able to receive from whoever is preaching and I certainly have, in fact some of the most profound deliverance I have gotten was from visiting ministry, but I do think he has been gone too long and too often and something has gotten in there, Jezebel and her mamma!
I so appreciate the insight given here. This definately gives me a lot to think about.
For the other members who are reading this in secret, I think we need to pay attention people. All of these folks are not nuts, off or disgruntled. Some of them we have known and loved and trusted at one point, they are part of the family of God and people we served with for decades. There is validity in what they are saying. Lets be honest with ourselves. WE are walking with Christ and He will hold us accountable for the choices we make. Our alliance and devotion is to Him and Him alone.
To Not a Happy Camper,
ReplyDeleteI have been one of the secret readers. My heart has been torn, but you are right. We need to pay attention. I too have felt that things are very different & not the same as they once were. I could not put my finger on it, but this article has made so much sense to me.
You are also right that all of these folks can't be nuts, off or disgruntled. Leroy the guitar player hardly fits any of those. He sounds very sincere & was a member for 14 years with a lot to lose & let go of. He too makes a lot of sense.
Then there was Angie Sanchez. I knew her & even took one of her classes. Something is definitley not right & just doesn't add up anymore. My spirit has not felt right for a long time & it does seem like something has left the church & that bishop's heart has changed & he is gone so much.
And then there's the whole thing with Pastor Robert. I just don't get it. He has changed so much & now sister Kelly is gone without an explanation. And I still wonder why Minister Maus left & nothing was said from the platform. He was a great children's minister - why not a proper send off?? And he didn't even get to say good-bye to the children. That broke my heart & my children's. I couldn't even explain it to them.
I feel as though my time at Cornerstone is coming to an end. I must follow my heart & the Holy Spirit's leading as it seems as though the landscape just keeps changing at church. So many good people leaving who were long time members and faithful in serving. And as you say, Not a Happy Camper, they are our brothers & sisters & we once knew them & loved them & trusted them.
But even more as you say, we will be held accountable & our alliance is to Christ & Him alone. So, I am going to stop holding out & allow my steps to be ordered by the Lord even if that means they will be ordered out the door.
Thank you so much to the blog author for this article & for allowing such open & honest dialogue even from those of us who still attend, but perhaps for not much longer. Hold us all up in prayer as we follow God's leading for our lives even if it means moving on.
I want to encourage all who seek healing, direction or whatever you are desiring in God.
ReplyDeleteIt's very sad when any local assembly is scattered. I know that the people of God are the true church, but the local assembly is vitally important to the plan of God on earth.
The real warning signs of something becoming toxic in a church begins with classifying citizenship. Gifts differ, the call on a persons life is different, but we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The spirit of adoption makes us all the children of God.
In Luke 18:9 And He spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others.
ReplyDeleteWhen a person is constantly preaching on their significance to the body always establishing their incredible mantle,measure and assignment something has shifted in their own heart.
This STD is highly contagious and before long the entire church becomes infected by it.
You can recover from STAFF infection as well, but staying close to the infected is not wise.
It took me some time to recover from all the baggage I left with, but God is faithful.
ReplyDeleteLet's consider some of the great revelation from the Stone. MP wrote a book on breaking the assignment of spiritual assassins. I find this incredible odd, seeing that it hasn't worked for him or his staff. Maybe his book on breaking ungodly soul ties would help some. It's not the people who have left that are ungodly. Maybe some are, but most are good people. Place a demand on your own faith saints,and you'll discover much. If you are afraid that's not God. Be of good courage, it's a choice.
Be Blessed
It breaks my heart to leave something I was a part of. I went through 3D. I took their personality profiling test. I heard them talk about spiritual gifts. I knew I had one. I joined a ministry. I worked on projects. I sat across the table from "Sis K" a dozen times and she spoke not one word to me. Ever. I watched as Heaven on Earth come crashing down around them as their message of "Heal the World" was usurped by the message of the visiting ministry. "Heal your church." "Let each each prophet speak." "Let the Holy Spirit lead the service." But the prophets don't speak. Not at all. Not at Cornerstone. Only Michael speaks for God.
ReplyDeleteThis whole situation breaks my heart. I am so angry at MP right now I could just spit. How could he allow this to happen? How could he not see what was happeneing when hundreds of faithful members started leaving? What about the all powerful intercessors, in all thier foot stomping and yelling at the devil to stay away from their beloved Pastor and church, why did they not see a terrible spirit had entered the house? I mean really. Its like I am sitting here thinking back on every sermon and every prophecy and the connection I once had to this place and now I am sitting here wondering just what the hell happened and when and why didnt I see it?
ReplyDeleteThere was a time not too long ago when I was in the middle of a horrible time and I knew that if I could just get to church I would make it through that day because God would give me a word and He always did. Being in that church saved my life and my sanity on more than one occasion and I am so angry that pride and whatever else is destroying the place I and many others have helped to build, not to mention the destruction of all the hearts that is taking place...
After standing beside this man of God through all the humiliating and embarrassing situations, defending his humanity to everyone even to this day, losing every friend I had because I did that, I am so angry! When is he going to stand by us and get a clue that all is not well in this house and his "children" are being ripped apart at the thought of their spiritual father not really giving a damn about them....ok your church is dying and the only thing you can think to do is go on a "west coast run"...WOW!
Sorry people, yes I cursed..I will repent later but for now forgive me for my rant. I am going through a whole lot of emotions right now and they vary from moment to moment and anger is what is going on now...ok Im done.
God reveals what He wants you to know through many different avenues.God speaks through his word, dreams, visions,word of knowledge, word of wisdom, tongues and interpretation, and prophecy and by the leading of the Holy Spirit bearing
ReplyDeletewitness with our spirit.
I do not base my life upon a dream that I may have or even a fear that the enemy places in my path.I can depend on the Lord to lead me and listen to His instructions, pray and follow Him.Sometimes we just have to take one step at a time and wait for more direction. That is where we found ourselves when we came to Cornerstone.The only instruction that God gave came in two simple words -"Follow Me". We were not there to follow man, but to obey God. While we were there on those two word from God, I can truly say that we certainly picked up some golden nuggets by observation. We weren't there to go through those two doors that led to the throne of man.We were there not looking for a position nor when we left we had no axe to grind.In our experience, and each somewhat difference,we gleaned what we could and when it was time to go, it was time to go.We tried to apply the good and recycle the waste( the abusive, dictatorial, controlling,haughty and naughty,disrespectful and condescending attitudes that some of the staff and their wives displayed in an unchrist-like attitude and offenses. I was looking for a mentor and found, and realized that I DO NOT DESIRE TO BE LIKE ANY OF THE GUILTY ONES. If you are reading this blog and you are one of those guilty ones,-read this post and you be the judge.Don't listen to those words of the deceiving "brother" about not having any regrets or reservations.God gave us a mind to think with and we need to rethink things sometimes and readjust and go back to where we started and realign everything and get back on track. Regret is not a sin. It is a part of repentance.To say "no regrets and no reservations" is very arrogant and a sure sign of an unwillingness to repent.
Finally, GOD specifically told me that M.P. and R.P. forgot where they came from.
H-E-L-L-OOOO,M.P.and R.P. Where is your true repentance? Your members have reservations and they are about you. WE KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS BLOG,and we hope it is helping you as well as all those that were servants under you.DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE DOING? THEY LOVED YOU AND FEEL BETRAYED.Judas traded JESUS for some silver and gold. He hung himself and didn't gain anything, but lost everything.He had regrets. Do you. Everyone still loves you. They are hurt and crying out, but you were no where to be found, because you yourself have lost your way. It is a good thing to always remember where you came from and that you are loved.
MP isn't reading this. He thinks too much of himself to care what we think of him. His lackeys are keeping tabs and reporting back to him.
ReplyDeleteWhat some of you are feeling right now is very normal. For those familiar with any type of loss or traumatic event, you will recognize these emotions as part of the grieving process. This process is a God given set of reactions that help us to slowly process the difficulty we are facing. And... yes... the reality that you are now facing concerning your church is a very real emotional crisis, because you were so invested in that assembly... emotionally, physically, financially, and in every other way. So, give yourself time to process this information.
ReplyDeleteI would like to make a couple of suggestions, if I may...
1) Find a trusted Christian friend, outside this current circle of influence, with whom you can confide... talk to them, pray with them, share your whole heart.
2) Be angry... yes, once again, it is part of the healing process, and often it drives us toward healthy decisions. HOWEVER... embrace the Biblical admonition to... "Be angry and SIN NOT.” (Ephesians 4:26) There will be a strong temptation, during this season of processing information, to lash out. Hurting people really do have a tendency to hurt other people. You are hurting right now, so please be very aware of that.
3) Be sensitive to the Holy Spirit at this time. Go for a walk and listen for that "still small voice" of His presence. Get in a quiet room and talk to God, but be sure to spend some time listening as well. He really will lead you and guide you into all righteousness.
4) Realize that you are all, in our prayers. We will not stop. You are not alone.
May God bless you in this season. You are loved.
@ too far
ReplyDeleteI am SO glad to see this comment by been there done that. It makes a lot of sense. I also scored very high in prophecy, discernment, evangelism, mercy, and leadership.
They don't council anyone about giftings. They never even mentioned a phone call to me. The tests probably go into your file and stay there until you need to be reprimanded.
I'll be in the house on sunday
ReplyDelete@ sick to my stomach....
ReplyDeleteWhere is God in all of this???? Your source is not any leadership from any church....you don't know what they do with stuff...nor is it your business to know.
It is NOT about YOU
Cornerstone is a fun place to serve God. I'm coming back tomorrow
ReplyDeleteAs everyone can clearly see from the above comment. We've had a poser come onto the blog.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies to those whose names were used to "appear" as if they were posting.
@ too far
ReplyDeleteIt's not my business to know what they did with tests they gave me? Who cares? They gave the test back. They don't care about the scores.
I can make an educated guess, but you're right. They probably aren't keeping the results in my file. They probably just threw the results away.
@ Speaking Truth in Love
ReplyDeleteI understand why you are deleting some posts. That is why I visit this blog several times a day. I know I've missed some information, but
I don't need to know the names as I know what is going on. I had a look behind the curtain. That is why I ran for the exit.
Let the posers be. We know they are posers. We can see their hearts are not in the right place. We know ours are because we are here.
@ too far
ReplyDeleteOne more thing I would like to point out. My salvation IS about me. Michael is not going to stand in for me as my covering as I go before God in my final judgment. I REPEAT for Micheal and all his supporters. It IS about ME! It IS about YOU! That is EXACTLY what it is about.
To all of the Posers,
ReplyDeleteMy, my - desperate times call for desperate measures. How well you have learned the art of deceitfulness from your "headship".
It is a sad day when you cannot accept the fact that your brothers & sisters in Christ are leaving because of the Holy Spirit's leading in their lives & common sense which tells them things are terribly wrong at CStone.
It is no different than how Michael & Robert have treated others who have left. You are simply behaving in the manner in which they taught & modeled for you. Rather than exhibit Christ-like behvaior, they merely act out of fleshly anger, not love because they can't simply release people in the direction they feel God is leading them.
What good does it do to follow men who are supposed to be pastors, but yet they don't allow you to be led by God's leading in your own life? It does no good because they don't allow you to think for yourself, or treat you as if you are capable of making decisions for yourself.
All they can do is spout, "It ain't about you." Really. If it ain't about you, why did Jesus leave the 99 to go & find the one who was lost?
That teaching & doctrine is merely about guilt & manipulation to keep you in line with their abusive authoritarian style. They have to guilt you if you dare take a moment for your life, your needs or those of your family.
Yet, when it comes to their needs & family, they go & do whatever they need to do & don't think twice about it. That's because when the going gets tough, rather than face it, they can get out of Dodge & have guest ministry come in & try to smooth over the mess & make it look like all is well at the Stone.
Just like now, MP is doing his west coast run because he can't face the facts here in Toledo in his own church, so he heads out. And sad to say, RP is as of late a poor example of someone trying to preach the gospel. I mean really, what in the heck was Thursday night??
So, posers stay if you want, but again this is our blog. It is for those who have left the Stone & are trying to make sense of their lives in the aftermath, as well as for those making the move toward the exits. It is also about truth & honest open dialogue.
We didn't leave because we were disgruntled or hurt. No, we left because the heart & motives of a man we once loved & served as our pastor no longer resembles the heart he once had for the people. It is however, all about him (MP).
@sick to my stomach and too far,
ReplyDeleteyes, I would agree that is why we have leadership (5-fold Ministry)God's word says
Ephesians 4:11-12 (New King James Version)
11 And He Himself(Jesus) gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
So you are saying "too far" that it isn't about us? God's word clearly makes it plain that the work of 5-fold ministy is to equip US and edify US. So my question to you then is why do you not love yourself enough to feel like you deserve to be pastored, taught, prophecied over? you are more important than to fortify a dynasty of man. Jesus himself gave these (5-fold ministry) just FOR you.
It is sad to see a church full of good people that deserve to have a shepherd that will really mentor and disciple them. I would love to hear one person that has personally had that experience with MP or RPat least in the last 5-6 years. I just want to hear one story from someone that they have coached through a difficult time in their life, that they have encouraged and spent TIME with, that they have taken into their arms and prayed for, that they have cried with. These are the characteristics of a real pastor/shepherd. Not just preaching from the platform. Mentoring and discipling would imply RELATIONSHIP, INVESTMENT into a person's life. Not preaching.
Since leaving, I have had the opportunity to have a shepherd like I just described. They were worth their weight in gold. Coached me through the darkest months of my life, spent time and invested in ME. Now, I do the same for others. It is difficult to do for someone else what you haven't had. So now I carry that experience with me; that when it looked like I wasn't worth the time, thank God, my pastor came looking for me, just like Jesus did in the parable of the 99 good sheep and the 1 lost one.....
I sincerley hope that you pray and ask God to see that YOU are worth it being about YOU.
This comment was deleted by “too far”:
ReplyDelete“personal attacks are too far...get over yourself...why don't comments like this get censored??? I am sure this one will....who is the real Jezebel? only comments that seek to destroy, defame and belittle the leadership of cornerstone get left up....anything else is deleted....wake up people...who are the real "brainwashers" here.... The offended ones...thats who.”
----------------
I realize you must be really FRUSTRATED. After all the efforts made to contact former members and you STILL cannot find out who the blog author is. Friend, you must be exhausted by now! This would explain the recent “STONE throwing” –that’s much easier for you than reaching out to former members. Something Cornerstone knows VERY LITTLE about.
Friend, don’t you know that GOD NEVER REVEALS HIS PLANS TO THE ENEMY??
This Blog began and will remain POSITIVE. So, yes YOUR comment was deleted –along with the other “poser” comments. We will not allow you to verbally insult those who are seeking support in their journey forward.
To Sick to My Stomach,
ReplyDeleteYou are right, your salvation is about you. That's why the Bible tells us to work it out with fear & trembling. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.(Phil.2:12,13), not Michael's or Robert's.
It is too bad that Too Far's mind is so controlled by the doctrines of Michael. Whatever will Too Far do when at last his beloved savior Michael also exits the building for good?
You are going to be ok Sick to My Stomach. Don't let the likes of Too Far get to you. For all we know he is also a poser for someone on staff who wants to continue to throw contolling doctrine at us.
Well, we've been freed from that. Free to follow the Holy Spirit's leading for ourselves & free to think for ourselves.
We are here to love, encourage & support one another in this new journey we find ourselves on. It takes time to work through all of the feelings associated with such disappointment & disbelief as to the bill of goods we were sold & adhered to for so long, only to find out that the very people we thought cared about our souls & spiritual well-being don't. They have been in it for themselves & what they could get out of well meaning & sincere individuals who were trying to serve God with the gifts & calling He placed within them. Too bad no pastor at Cstone really cared about that, but only about how they could use your gift to make them look good.
And as you say, Michael is not going to stand in as your covering when you go before the Lord in final judgement. But then again, MP & RP in their dominion, kingdom now doctrine don't really believe in that anyway. They in their arrogance think we are going to rule & reign the earth before Christ's return & hand the kingdom over to Him, not so.
If it were that simple & we could pray and shout dominion & bind up all of the evil, then why can't they do it for starters right in their own house?
Just some things to think about, but then again, that's not what they want us doing - thinking for ourselves that is.
Hang in there. We are praying for you and all of those struggling through this detoxing process, because it is about you & your relationship with Jesus, not with Michael or other CStone "headship".
To those that privately know what is yet unfolding –PLEASE continue to pray for the members of Cornerstone. When someone knows ahead time that a loved one is departing, they have time to prepare; time to say goodbye. However it’s another thing to deal with tragedy that hits completely unexpectedly.
ReplyDeleteRest assured that the charade WILL continue until the very end. (Yes, IT IS COMING TO AN END and THEY KNOW IT.) This is EXACTLY WHY they are seeking to villainize those who know what’s REALLY going on. Those who are unselfishly speaking out to warn others of the tragic fate that lies ahead.
As the TITANIC sinks, they will seek to be portrayed as “victims” or rather “martyrs”…playing the violin all the way to the end. How ironic that FATE lied solely in THEIR hands from the beginning. THEY pridefully chose to ignore the multiple warning signs. Putting the entire "Crew" at risk for THEIR OWN name’s sake. For they continually have refused to set aide their PRIDE and take accountability for their actions. (As Robert said, “No regrets”)
They know FULL WELL there aren’t any “sides”. No “US vs. THEM” propaganda going on. That is a relied upon (MAKE BELIEVE) tactic set to buy them time, as they scramble to hold together “APPEARANCES”.
If you are recently tuning in: You are witnessing the transfer of leadership OUT of the hands of Saul. When a leader no longer adheres to the commandments of the Lord, the Spirit will depart from his leadership and then ultimately someone else will be appointed to take their place. What Saul feared the most, came upon him.
I Samuel 15:26-28 “And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbor of thine, that is better than thou.”
*The Facts --(5) Pastors have left and counting... How can all these Pastors be qualified to lead one day and then the next rendered "unqualified" by the Pitts' standards?? Whose report will you believe?
Friends, no matter how “ugly” it gets…. Remember, God will see you through it. Perhaps those that seek to throw the ugly “Stones” today, may be the same ones that reach out to you tomorrow.
yeah, about thursday nights "service", and I use that term loosely, I wonder if kelly pitts and madeline thomas have any regrets?
ReplyDeleteI find it amazing that RP is eeven on that platform, really, what is he doing? That was certainly not preaching..that was more like winging it...
I wonder if MP will even tell us he is flying the coop or will a prophet come and drop that spiritual bomb after the fact....
this all just stinks.
@ Speaking the Truth, I have followed this blog with interest because, althouth I do not regret leaving the Stone, it affirms that I am sane and left with good reason(s). Sometimes my spouse and I have wondered, "is it us"?
ReplyDeleteAlthough we don't believe that except in moments of introspection, it is still like losing a loved one ("ones" actually). Worse yet, you can't defend yourself when attacked to people you loved and thought loved you back.
You keep mentioning that things are coming to an end, do you know this as a fact or is it speculation based on scripture indicating coming judgement? I only ask because although I don't want anyone's faith to be hurt (it is already), it would be nice t be vindicated for a change. I know that's probably not very spiritual, but I can't help feeling it.
Yes this all really does stink. The blog author has done a great job using the Word of God to clearly explain the apparent changing of the guard so to speak at CStone. It is truly ashame that what could have been will probably never be.
ReplyDeleteWhen pride & arrogance rule, it opens the door to all kinds of spirits to come in. And when appearances, titles, & money mean more than people & following the true Word of God, God will only stand by for so long and allow it to continue.
I am saddened and sorry that a pastor I once respected and a church that I once looked forward to attending each week has turned into a den of thieves and a place where the Spirit has left the building.
I absolutely agree that Thursday night could hardly qualify for a service & Robert was indeed winging it & trying to cover his bases with a lame no regrets pep talk. There indeed should be regrets, but when one continually denies things & doesn't care about the sheep because it ain't about you, it is time to step away from ministry.
What is presented from MP & RP can hardly qualify for ministry or equipping the saints. It has come down to smoke & mirrors & make believe tactics as the blog author has explained.
The gig is up. When will the other pastors stand up & say enough is enough? Or are they all too afraid of what may happen if they do? If that is the case, they are serving tyrants and not pastors.
I am sorry for all whose lives are being impacted by the knowledge of this, but God is revealing things to you for a reason at this time. Many of us left long before things became as bad as they are now. Sin left unchecked grieves the Holy Spirit. It can no longer be called merely mistakes & we're all human. It is a matter of the heart. And when men who call themselves bishops & pastors or ministers can behave so uncaringly, they need to step down.
I pray for all whose hearts are hurting and angry by the apparent lack of caring from the bishop of the house. I use that term loosely.
There is only one way to end the charade & that is for people to stop attending & to stop supporting these men who clearly resemble nothing of a true shepherd & whose hearts have grown cold.
It is time to ask yourself whose report you will believe according to the unadulterated Word of God, not according to a man's supposed revelation when his lifestyle does not line up with the Word of God.
Be blessed and may god give you strength in the days ahead.
As a child we'd what TV with our parents, our parents would laugh and we wouldn't know what was funny because our young minds had not received the understanding of insinuations yet, so we where considered and were Naive, but now, if you've matured and still lack understanding of the insinuations, it is considered ignorance.
ReplyDeleteSo thanks to all who participated in that colossal display of ignorance. Here's a hint if you want to accurately impersonate me... just tell the truth. that's not possible because you don't know it. (control is wicked) The sounds you made today represent a structural failure in progress.
TiC.ToC.TiC.ToC!
There are those who are current members of Cornerstone who are allowed to read the post here with no repercussions. agree or disagree.
Even if I wanted to sit in cornerstone just to hear the light rays bounce off the chairs,(It's the only thing that gets regenerated in that place) I cannot set foot in cornerstone without being removed by police, would that because I have a alcohol, drug, sex problem?...Nope!
but it would be because of what I represent(THE TRUTH) and I would tell ALL who asked me "where have you been" the same things I've been saying since I left on 10/10/10 Facebook post November 29, 2010 at 1:15am "I cannot and will not play church"
It is obvious who you guys are, I got a facebook Msg from one of you insinuating the same thing, (DUH!)
I don't believe any of the sincere folks here would call any of you who disagree out of your name, but my daughter was called a B_tch, by someone who still belongs and is truly angered. (could it be from something I said?)
So for you cornerstone folks who get seriously agitated because there is no Kathy or Micheal "Like" buttons here, I've said it once and I'll say it again. Anything I've said don't take it for the truth...investigate and verify if you so desire, if you don't care about whats going on in cornerstone do what you leader has commanded "lean in" and do that with "no regrets" stay off face book and the blogs. The rewards you'll get for that will be "AWESOME"
There are no sides here.... Only Truth and that with Love.
Confused as to why Cornerstone members would
ReplyDelete1)Read this blog
2)Leave angry comments
3)Spend so much time worrying about what we are doing and saying here on this blog?
I thought you all had "Shifted" and were "too spiritual" to pay attention to the "haters" and "backyard brethren" who don't know how to have a "global ministry" to "heal the world"??
Actions speak louder than words.
So, I have a question...for those who are reading this blog and reporting back to MP, what is the purpose of you reading and reporting? I mean is he going to be addressing some of these issues or what?
ReplyDeleteWill we finally understand why valued members of our family of God are no longer there and are broken hearted after attending church and being faithful for decades?
Will we finally get some true respect and get some answers as to why Kelli Pitts fell off the face of the earth and yes we noticed?
Will we get some answers as to when your heart changed Bishop and you stopped caring for your sheep?
Will we get the truth...In love of course...
Will you be telling us in advance of your move to austrailia or will we find out the day before you leave?
I am thinking though that since we have yet to get anything that we deserve whether it be truth, respect,love or honesty or the true care of a shepherd, I think Tina Turner said it best, "What's love got to do with it"???
To: been there done that:
ReplyDeleteIn answer to your question about why current members would read this blog....For me, when I discoverd this blog, I shifted alright, right into "WHAT!!" mode.
When I first started reading it, I was sick to my stomach and wept. I couldnt believe the accusations here were possible. However, in turning off "WHAT!" mode for a moment and folks started revealing themselves, it became real and possible. The truth of the matter is that I have watched hundreds of people that I have loved and respected leave in droves never knowing why. An exodus like that does not happen to people who have served in a particular place for some 20 plus years for no reason.
I had no choice but to look at everyones comments honestly and open a dialogue with God about all of it. I am still shocked at what I read but I am looking at it and being honest. I am re-evaluating what I have seen, heard and felt over the years and taking a hard look at myself.
I am not here to mock or knock anyone. I have legitimate questions and am in some seriously legitimate pain. I am angry with my Bishop for not being more attentive to his sheep, I am deeply saddened that my church that I adore is dying and am frightened that what I have believed in, invested my time, talent and treasure in has all been a lie and a hoax.
So, I hope that answers that question for you. I am seeking truth.. thats all. This may be an unusual venue to obtain it but that point brings it back around to this, If I were getting answers and truth from the pulpit of my church, I would not have to seek it elsewhere....How sad is that?
To Bishop, I trusted you...I trusted you to watch over my soul. I trusted that who you said you were was in fact the truth...I trusted the people that you set in place there... I trusted you when your life reflected less than stellar morals...I have given up so much to serve and be a part of your church...I trusted you to care for me....Do you hear your "children" crying out in pain? Do you hear us? What will you do about what you hear?
To all those who are still at Cornerstone and are becoming angry at this site; I want to say, "I understand." Please know... when God begins to reveal the truth to us and we are not prepared to accept it, we have emotional defense mechanisms built into our system, such as anger, that help us deny that information. What others are saying may be as true as the sun rising in east and setting in the west, but we are not ready to accept it as "truth" yet. Therefore, we become angry. It's similar to our first response when a beloved family member is accused of committing some egregious crime. We become angry at the accuser. Only after much reflection, perusal of the evidence, listening carefully to the eyewitnesses, can we even begin to accept the truth of the accusations.
ReplyDeleteYes... that is what you are feeling right now. You are angrily defending those that you love... the real problem is that their behavior is indefensible. You will grow into the revelation being shared... just keep listening to the Holy Spirit and reading the Word of the Lord. God is your Shepherd... He loves you... Hear His voice and He will lead you into all truth.
To Not A Happy Camper,
ReplyDeleteThe answer to what's love got to do with it is nothin'. At the end of the day, they are not about ministering to someone in love who has had a bad day or who is having a "bad attitude" or who is hurting or financially in the hole. We aren't to treat people the way they treat us if they are having a bad day & just cast them off as they ain't going anywhere with that attitude. Proverbs 15:1 says that a soft answer turns away wrath. Sometimes people with bad attitudes have never experienced true love & kindness in their lives. We are to be the examples of light in the darkness, not add more salt to someone's wounds.
But, with MP & RP, it's about looking for somebody they can deal with who is on top of their game, sowing their seed, sowing some favor so they get some favor in return, blessing the house & the men of God. That's what it's all about.
Cause you know, they never sow down, only up to something they figure is somebody going somewhere with somthing to do. There is no time or love or help for the lowly down & out homeless person or the alcoholic on the street.
I remember one time when Michael preached about sowing your seed. He asked a question, if you have a $1000 to sow, do you give it to the alcoholic on the street with the brown paper bag in his hand or do you give it to the young entrepeneur. He said most of you would say the alcoholic, but that's the wrong answer. He's only going to blow it on more alcohol. The young entrepeneur will sow it into something going somewhere.
Perhaps on both accounts, yet very presumptuous. I suppose human nature & behavior would indicate that is probably true. But a little love & kindness shown along with the $1000 & an offer of a hand up may make a world of difference in the alcoholic's life, especially if the love shown is ongoing & support is given.
I said all of that to say, it all goes back to a heart issue. If you believe in your heart that the alcoholic is not worhty of your love, time & investment, then you will look upon them with disdain & cast them aside. Jesus never taught us to do that. We are to love all manner of men regardless. And you ultimately place your treasure where your heart is.
Yes, one should exercise wisdom & good judgement in sowing money, but there's more to our christian walk than just sowing money. And there should be more to a ministry than just looking for somebody going somewhere.
It all comes down to looking at the heart & motives of the shepherd & ministry you decide to sit under & follow. I am looking for a shepherd with a heart of love toward people, not someone who is constantly looking at others as investments to aggrandize their lifestyle & ministry. And that is in all areas: gifts, talents etc., not just money.
Well, it was business as usual at the Stone. All the preaching and music was directed at the comments/commenters on the blog.
ReplyDeleteEverybody is under attack & the world's system is giving them disrespect. So they got to turn up the heat & fight & sow.
And all that pressure & attack just means you're being called to promotion.
Hmmm, are we setting the members up for the next big promotion of MP that will move him out of CStone or perhaps someone else? And then God will bring them someone else because they have been faithful to their man of Gawd.
Time will tell. It's just always more of the same...attacks from the world's system & angry people & disrespect cause we all know you got to disconnect from that.
Nothin' but the same messages over & over each time a new situation comes to light with the corrupt ministry at CStone.
You would think the sheep would catch on by now. The messages always reflect the setup for what's about to come. But the sheep are controlled & under the influence of the same spirits on MP & RP so they cannot see it.
At the end of the day, it is all about them & love ain't nowhere to be found & ain't nobody entitled to any answers cause don't you know, you're just "stupid sheep" anyway & you ain't in charge & it ain't about you junior....so get in line, sit down, be quiet & sow your seed if you want to get something you need in return. Otherwise, there's the door.
So really love ain't got nothin' to do with it you all.
Help us all Lord Jesus.
It's So amazing to have clarity of speech directly from God, also empowering. The days of pastors who indoctrinate the "dumb sheep" is drawing to a close. Technology is the vehicle by which the truth will be circulated and wicked agendas exposed.
ReplyDeleteI listen to TD Jakes complain because, he said, the preachers are having to deal with "attacks from the internet", He stated that there needed to be "rules" and "laws" to prevent this, but he never mentioned the validity of whats being said about them......Why?
Simply M.O.N.E.Y!
This is one of the reasons it's important to know the word of God and to live in a place where you can hear him speak to you, because preachers, be they in the spirit or in the flesh; money is a conformation tool for them. When it shows up, to them it's a sign to go further.
So when details are discussed as they are here on LIFE after Cornerstone, the problems preachers addicted to money face, is how to stop this type of information from getting out because it affects the flow of money.
For those of you who are still in a church where your receiving from God is associated with your giving, don't you know obedience to the will of God is the most effective way to advance your life rather than sowing?
The bible says it this way,(1 Sam 15:22)"Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken to the fat of rams".
Preachers are being identified solely by their conversation from the pulpit, there's no need to follow them around, just listen to what they say.
It's is impossible for a preacher to speak contrary to his or her agenda.
The list of preachers exposed is growing at an alarming rate and it's because God has truly pulled up the stakes of the camp and moved without giving the flesh notice.
"Money could never destroy a church, but the love of money will destroy it every time".
Selah
To Leroy:
ReplyDeleteYes and Amen! Truly you have identified one of the characteristics at the Heart of the Matter. THE LOVE OF MONEY.
It is common these days for sheep to simply be told “Trust Leadership”. This is an elementary level, clichéd phrase used to excuse and explain away the lack of fellowship and TRANSPARENCY between Shepherd and Sheep. It’s sounds “spiritual” right??
Furthermore, how can a sheep trust a shepherd that KEEPS SECRETS? Especially in terms of WHERE the money goes?? Cannot a ministry include a statement that not only includes the AMOUNT of an individual’s giving: But how that giving was disbursed over the year?? What is there to hide? (besides assets)
Giving to those who “say” there’s nothing to hide..but yet openly REFUSE ANY financial transparency --that IS another thing all together. It’s what’s commonly known as a lack of INTEGRITY.
This is one of those Precious Lessons Learned… Trust is not blindly given on a one-way street. The Chief Shepherd was TRANSPARENT. He did not demand the Apostles follow Him around, while he kept secrets. He also didn’t keep the treasury hidden underneath his own robe.
1st let me say this to all of the "posers" and "haters" - Please my brothers and sisters - remember to LOVE no matter what as Christ loved! NO MAN is above God and NO MAN is worth tearing down another one of God's children!
ReplyDeleteNow - I hear you all - I really do! I'm a Cornerstonian (for over 16 years) struggling with am I truly hearing from God, being led by the Spirit away or am I to stay and serve God as I always have - I've NEVER served man, I have a forgiving heart as God has taught me - BUT, how do we sit idly by while all this is "supposedly" going on?!!! I struggle with the absence of KP! I stuggle with the rumors! I struggle with RP and his arrogance! I struggle with the mass exodus of my Brothers and Sisters in Christ! I struggle with MP's silence! STAND UP AND SAY SOMETHING! God I know I am not to judge and we are all accountable for OUR OWN ACTIONS and You Father are the ONLY ONE WHO TRULY KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN...BUT...how long do I allow my children to be up under such leadership?! I LOVE GOD WITH MY ALL and live only to serve HIm...but how do you sort through it all and KNOW that what I am hearing is God? I so want to be in the will of God and my sole purpose for existing is to do His will...I do know even though I'm struggling I'll be all right, but how do you know whose voice is God? whose voice is the enemy trying to steer you off course? Even Samuel needed three times before he realized it was God talking to him ~ Dear God...help me to know...(no pun intended)...should I stay or should I go?!
Peace and Love to you all whether former or present CStone attenders! We ARE ALL BROTHERS & SISTERS IN CHRIST! LOVE ONE ANOTHER!
To Struggling:
ReplyDeleteFriend, thank you for sharing! Thank you for seeing the heart of the blog. Regardless of those that seek to "hijack" our motives, we simply set out to help those who found themselves "shipwrecked" and were seeking support as they move forward. (As much "support" that can be provided from a blog that is.)
We do not want to see ANYONE defined by the devastation. We are not against the members of Cornerstone. We are not against Michael and Robert Pitts personally, we are however –against the false teachings and unscriptural leadership methods that are harming the sheep. (Remaining attached to an unhealthy system, is not necessary in order to pray for those who are.)
We too love our brothers and sisters who yet remain at Cornerstone. Most Cornerstone Members are GOOD people, who believe they are serving God through Cornerstone.
So, we absolutely understand their frustration and anger. And we understand WHY some of them may label us "offended" and "hurt". That is much easier to accept than the truth of what is really going on at the church.
Friend, be still and KNOW that He is God. Listen to the Voice of the Holy Spirit. Set aside your emotions and fears. The question of "should you stay or go"...can only be answered by Him. The test for you will be this: "Can you TRUST Him right now, without KNOWING exactly where that path will lead?" Let go of the hand of "man", take hold of the "hand" of God. Go in the direction of Peace, as it will surely surpass your understanding.
When one finds themselves seemingly “cornered” by a problem, it’s simply an indicator that God is trying to help them DISCOVER THE ANSWER that will deliver His purpose into their life. Otherwise, we would have simply continued in the direction of the SAME unturbulent course --would we not? He is trying to answer your prayers friend.
Ask yourself this question: Has this season of my life served its purpose, have things now come "full-circle"? If the answer is "yes" --Then it's time to go... Men do not "release" you, God Himself will "release" you...and you will know that you know, that you know -deep down within your Spirit.
Dear Struggling,
ReplyDeleteYou sound so sincere and so torn. First, let me tell you that I am sorry for your confusion and what I am percieving is that you are perplexed. The very best way to hear God clearly is to read His word. Yes, it did take Samuel three times to discern God's voice, however we now have the HOLY SPIRIT. If we are in a constant state of walking with our Father, then we will most assuredly know His voice. However, lots of times we are hearing his voice and over-riding it because we really are in a state of denial. Our heart always percieves truth....usually our brain gets in the way. My suggestion would be for you to do an indepth study on Godly leadership. Read only the requirements found in scripture, not those mapped out for you by popular authors. The Word is basic and straight forward. I believe that if you cut off all the outside voices for a bit, you will begin to hear the voice of God more clearly. With that being said, I do not believe that you need a "Rheama" word from God for you to make your decision. Although God sometimes does speak to us quite clearly in that way, there are other times when you already know the answer, it's just difficult to take the first step of obedience (to the Word). You have everything you need to make a wise and healthy decision right there in front of you according to just God's Word. Good Luck, Please know that there are those that are desperately praying for those who are torn. We have been in that same place. Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ." Is that the direction CC is going? Toward Christ, or toward a "vision" or "new level"? My sincere question is: Why does CC need to have a global ministry when you do nothing in your own town for those that are lost and hurting? How much $$ is given to the poor and homeless? Nobody knows....because there is no financial accountability. Now there are large churches in Toledo area that are financially accountable. Be at peace Struggling :) We are praying for YOU!!
I attended Cornersone for a short time. If you see me on the street you might recognize me. I loved Cornerstone. But God has spoken to me in my dreams all my life. And I listen. This is dream #2 which was immediately following HOA.
ReplyDeleteI was preparing raspberries in the kitchen sink and placing them in small white bowels. I was called away to answer a question. I don't remember what the question was or who asked me. I suddenly realized I had left my task unfinished and ran back to the sink. I was horrified to find dirty water completely filling the sink. I hurriedly let the water out to see if I could save the raspberries. As I reached for the fruit I realized it was now tainted. Even if I rinsed them, eating the beautiful raspberries from the white dishes would make people sick. My fruit was a complete lost. And I woke up.
And I left.
After I left I was depressed for several weeks, missing the church friends and activites with which I had been filling my life.
ReplyDeleteDream #3, approximately 6 weeks after leaving.
I'm in Ghana, with Michael et al working on a big project. There are many people and much activity. I am given the task of buying fruit. I go to the crowded, colorful marketplace and buy bags full of vibrant apples and plums. I am happy with my purchase. When I return to the leaders they instruct me to place the fruit on large slanted wooden tables. As I set the fruit on the tables I see they are filming a documentary and the tables are being used as background. I realize that no one is going to eat the fruit. It is all stage dressing.
Leroy,
ReplyDeleteYou make much sense & speak much truth. The day is coming to an end for shepherds to lord over their sheep, particularly in these very large churches where man is put on pedestals.
There must be accountability & the internet is causing that to arise. These mega preachers can no longer hoodwink the sheep. As you say, just listen to what they speak, it matches their agendas & money and titles are a big part of most of their agendas.
All of them are being exposed as God is not happy with the state of affairs in the church today & He will begin his judgement from the head down.
Too much focus on money & giving to get from God. As you say, to obey is better than sacrifice. The likes of Long, Huskins, TD Jakes, Hinn, Paula White & the rest must be called out for what they are - false preachers who peddle the gospel & have all kinds of tricks & enticements to keep the sheep coming back.
Since when did church become an entertainment center or show?? Why must every other week bring a special guest ministry that the sheep must pay for? Yet when these sheep need help in their time of need - they don't have money for that.
It is definitely a heart matter. And Michael's heart has left the building a long time ago.His heart is on traveling, building houses in Australia, rubbing elbows with big name preachers & ain't none of it about caring for the sheep.
Ignorance may be bliss, but when you come into the light of the knowledge of truth, you must act on it. That is our responsibility as followers of Christ not man. We must take heed & follow the truth of what God shows us. If we ignore what is now obvious, then we become part of the problem & allow it to continue.
Staying & praying won't fix it. It is too far gone, too many people devastated, too much sin exposed & too many people lied to and about who left.
I personally could no longer stay, even after 20 years of serving. My spirit sensed something very wrong & the anointing left the building a long time ago.
I pray that those of you struggling find peace as you follow God's leading. It is not always easy, rainbows & sunshine when it comes to obeying God. It ain't all higher levels & beating devils. Sometimes it is a step down into reality & simplicity to hear the voice of God. As it says in Isaiah, in quietness & confidence will be your strength. Be still & know that He is God & He alone will see you through.
All of us who had to leave have faced anger, disbelief, denial, & what is wrong with me as we worked our way out. It was painful & heart wrenching, & we cried many tears, but now that we are free we can see so much clearly the lies & deception we were too close to see when we were all up in it. Sometimes you are too close to the forest to see the trees.
Keep listening, reading, sharing & seeking God's direction in your life as to what to do. Look beyond the words of a man to see his lifestyle for that will speak louder than anything.
LOVE this article!!
ReplyDeleteFirst off - just to let you know, I have recovered from my Existential Jezebel crises. :)
One thing that I know is that humans have the ability to coast when things are comfortable. With growth comes responsibility. The more responsibilities, the more the stress and then the heart's TRUE COLORS tend to exhibit.
In recovery we often talk about how to appropriately handle anger. Part of the "true color" scenario is that when it hits the fan, who we "really" are tends to surface; that's a polite way of saying that our issues go publicly on parade.
>>Although perhaps “men” may have hurt you and heaped great disappointment upon you --YOU alone however, will be responsible for what you do with that hurt and disappointment. <<
Amen and Amen.
PS. If I were Spice Girl - my name would be BITTER SPICE.
ReplyDelete"You can recover from STAFF infection as well, but staying close to the infected is not wise."
ReplyDeleteI have reinfections of MRSA. One of the reasons I was banished. Long story.
I almost cashed in with the first infection, literally.
Anyway - AS LONG AS THE INFECTED IS ON MEDICATION (in the process of recovery) you CAN stay close. The key is having evidence of RECOVERY.
Who knew my NDE would be a metaphoric allegory!!!
@ Speak It and Speaking Truth in Love - Thank you for your kind/sincere encouragement!
ReplyDelete@ Leroy - I went a step further and read 1 Sam 15 to fully understand the context of verse 22...eye opening! It is how God regrets appointing Saul king because he didn't follow God's command/WILL and was disappointed in the HEART of Saul because Saul was more interested in fame/fortune than obeying God. Hmmmm.... me thinkest this could be the Word I've been waiting to "hear"...now God help me with the next steps as I follow You...the Steps of the righteous are ORDERED by the Lord! I know this, but it is still going to be a struggle. Thank you all for your support, love, and encouragement! This is not going to be easy...
If you are placing Cornerstone before God you are separated from God while standing inside your church.
ReplyDeleteThis is the disturbing dream I had after attending 3D last March. I put it out of my mind at the time, not wanting to know what I CLEARLY see now- it was a warning.
I dreamed I was being chased through a giant ornate church by unseen adversaries. Only their clutching hands were visible as I ran to escape them. In my desperation to flee I began to climb/swim upward, a strange sensation, but the best I can describe the motion. As I continued upward the building became more and more dilapidated, until it was decaying under my very fingertips. When I had finally out-climbed my pursuers, I was at the top of a ramshackle, decaying tower. A beautiful glowing man was reclining a few feet away. He arose as I approached him, and I knew in my dream thoughts that he was the angel of light. Without speaking the angel conveyed that he wanted to make love to me. Within my dream I warned myself not to be fooled. I thought to myself, “I know who the angel of light is. The angel of light is satan.” And I woke up.
Michael made Revelation 22:1-3 the cornerstone of his message for HOE.
ReplyDelete1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
But we cannot rip 18 pages out of the Bible, jump to the end and say we are following God. Revelation 22:18-19 says-
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
There is no middle ground when it comes to God. GET OUT from under the KINGDOM NOW DOMINION DOCTRINE! NOW!
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
As a longtime member of the Stone I can relate totally to the comments above. We left about five years ago. We gave time, talent and money. But after 16 years we left. Confusing? Yes, definitely. Hurt. Yup! We examined our beliefs, we looked at our mistakes, and how things had changed over the years. It was not the same church, the same pastor or the same message. It had morphed into something entirely different. We had to finally see that the messages were not new, just reconstituted. The anointing had left a long time ago, and the pastors were there for anything but the gospel of Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think I can pinpoint the turning point. Some years back there was a message, (before the current building) whenMK preached, Shut Up and March! Can you remember that message? I do. It was about marching around the walls of Jericho in Joshua 6. We were told it was our place to question the anointed of the Lord, but to shut up and march! At that point I think things began to turn. And it has counted to turn until we have this situation.
However, this is not the only church has these problems. The whole non-denominational movement is filled with this same sickness. I have seen it personally in three churches and know that they are connected to a network of other churches. Hundreds of them are preaching this same doctrine. It is not limited and is much more far reaching than anyone suspects.
We have moved on. We have healed and we now hear the Gospel, not some cooked for the masses jumbalaya. Throw everything in, and see how it works, add some spice, a dash of this and a sprinkling of that and come up with your own Jesus-gumbo.
From what I have read, it seems the Prosperity Doctrine churches are the ones getting hit heaviest with scandal...
ReplyDeleteI have a question for all the X members:
Did you come to discover it "wasn't you" or that it was a combination of "you" and "the machine"?
I am not sure I am ever going to be able to say that it wasn't ME. I just feel like I did not "fit."
Penny,
ReplyDeleteI think if we are all honest, we will be able to say that part of it was us. I wanted to believe that a+b always equals c. Because of the chaos and confusion of my childhood and past, it was easy to swallow the "order" that was fed to us there. I craved structure and was relieved to feel in control for once. If I served hard and long enough, I would be promoted. If I gave, God would give me something back, in essence, believing that God was my butler….there to serve me. What I had or didn't have was in direct proportion to how much and what I gave.....therefore taking away God's sovereignty. This was great when I got what I felt like I needed or deserved, not so great when tragedy struck. All the confusion that doctrine caused me was extremely damaging. It took going to a good Christian counselor to challenge my whole theology for me to see the light.
I didn't fit either, but I was "conformed to the likeness of this world" instead of challenging the denial. I was a codependent from childhood, and so to be quite frank, it felt good and familiar to be in that same environment. Everything happens for a reason, so I do not despise the time spent there. It just really took way too much unhealthy behavior for my eyes to be opened. That is my fault for not accepting the truth that was in my heart, I allowed my mindset and thoughts to over-ride that truth. The bottom line is that most of us only see what we want to see. I wanted to be in control of my destiny, which is not bad...most of us want that. However, are any of us really in control of anything? I have found there are very few things that I do control. My list is pretty short, I can control my thought, emotions, words and actions.
That is really what the whole "prosperity gospel" is all about.....controlling the hand of God. That would be manipulation, right? Michael preached several times that trying to control the hand of God is witchcraft......Hmmmm. So, in the end, I had to repent and change the way that I thought. I had to surrender to the sovereignty of God, knowing that it didn't matter how much I gave or served, that didn't mean that I was protected from poverty or sickness, death or failure. That was in God's hands and He was more worried about me being healthy and whole than me being happy. So in order to truly be victorious, I had to lay down my weapons and stop fighting sometimes. I am not so sure that was ever taught at CC.
How many times have we heard from this pulpit that he was looking for the disenfranchised? Perhaps that is part of the key to many of the people in this forum. Many, including myself have come from damaged families, other damaged churches and lots of hurt. We come into Cornerstone and the structure is set up to look comforting and safe, fun and entertaining. It is easy to fall into step. If you are from a damaged background you are already programmed to keep it quite. Don't tell. Then the added incentive is the teaching that you will fall under a curse if you do not follow the rules, obey. And don't you dare be questioning any authority. Whenever I would question something to another in the congregation, and I did this more than most, I was reminded that I needed to pray more, read more, study more, whatever. It was always we that were falling short, never the leadership.
ReplyDeleteI worked with leadership. I saw they were flying by the seat of their pants most of the time. There was no excellence unless it was sheer mad rushing around to make it look good. Don't look too deep though, because it was a mess underneath.
What turned it for me was not one particular thing, but many over time. All of a sudden the blinders were off and I could see what was really preached, what was going on. I simply could not go on believing in "another level, another breakthrough, another greater blessing" any longer. I knew it was all bogus. It was a painful time, for you feel like such a fool. You cannot go on as you were, and you are afraid of some vague curse or something getting you if you would dare walk out. That is when you know you are part of a cult and not a part of a real Christian church. You believe in Jesus, he is your savior and he does not curse so easily as all that! SO you go quietly, not saying anything. Because that is part of the programming too. No one calls and no one cares. I almost felt invisible.
But the Lord knows who you are and your heart, and you do heal. The freedom is an upper! I can tell you that!
To “Oh Brother”:
ReplyDeleteYes and Amen! Truly you have identified one of the characteristics at the Heart of the Matter. ARROGANCE.
How many times has it been said: “Don’t DISRESPECT Leadership”. Meaning that if you don’t agree with THEM or dare ask a question, you are disrespecting them. As if “they” are coming from a position of Absolute Authority.
Friends, it’s not about US “agreeing with them”. But, IT IS ABOUT (ALL OF US) agreeing with God’s Word. His Word IS the Absolute Authority is it not?
Such “cliché phrases” are for nothing more than the purpose of CONTROL. In order to silence those who may “threaten” their agenda with “questions”. For once you “Buy the Truth, and sell it not.” -How would you then be able to exchange that truth for anything that would be EQUAL to its value?
Friends, Authoritarian Leaders may CRY “disrespect” all day long when their teachings come into question. However, the Bible PLAINLY calls it: “MARKING those that cause divisions and offences CONTRARY to the doctrine which ye have learned; and what??? –AVOID THEM.” (Rom. 16:17)
This is one of those Precious Lessons Learned… KNOW your Word and sell it not. Paul called Peter out PUBLICLY when he began twisting the truth for sake of his “image”.
Again, we must ask ourselves: "Whose Nature is being reflected?"
Speakit! -- you have so eloquently and sincerely stated in your post what I have felt and thought, but was unable to give expression to ~ Thank you.
ReplyDeleteTo Speakit!
ReplyDeleteWow. You have expressed so well how I felt & thought through my leaving process. You have worded it exactly as it is at CStone. The only thing for me though, was that as I was struggling to make my decision to leave, I always thought it was me. I kept telling myself you're just being negative or that's just the devil or you're not confessing the Word enough or fighting the devil hard enough. Maybe I needed some deliverance or more anointing. It was so crazy. I had lost my abiltiy to trust myself and my own discernment. And trying to hear from God was next to impossible as I thought I didn't have enough faith, otherwise I wouldn't be questioning so much that we had been taught through the years.
After awhile, I just never felt as if I measured up. It was like no matter what I did to serve there or what I achieved in my personal life, somebody else came along who was so much better with their achievements even though I had several degrees & served & tithed faithfully, somehow I was still missing the mark. I felt there was some sort of underlying competition to see who was the most spiritual or who could get to that next level and reach that destiny that was always preached about. And if you had some gift or talent or ability that could make MP & CStone look good, you got recognized and acknowledged.
And like you, I too came from a chaotic & confusing childhood & yes the order & structure worked for me as I was designed for it because of my childhood. I wanted to please & fit in. I needed recognition but no matter how hard I tried there, it never seemed to come and eventually as you said, my eyes began to be opened, but it took a lot of unhealthy behavior for it to happen.
I too figured out that the "Word" we were taught there was not God's Word. We were groomed to believe as you said that God is our butler or genie in the sky even though MP would preach that he wasn't. We were in essence trying to control the hand of God as we had been taught by MP & yes, interesting how MP said that doing that was witchcraft. Perhaps that is what took over at CStone & where the Jezebelic spirit came in.
It is interesting to me, that all that MP preached so hard against or about them out there really came full circle to them in there. Perhaps his own life and ministry was the basis of his "revelation".
At any rate, I'm still sorting some things out. I would love to know that name of the counselor you went to because I could really use a good christian counselor. Would you mind sharing the name?
Thank you so much for so honestly sharing. This blog has been a godsend & dare I say a lifesaver for some. Leaving what has for all intents & purposes been a cult can be a very mind boggling thing.
And you are so right, the only things we can control are our thoughts, emotions, words & actions. We can't pray any "powerful" prayers or march or sing songs or give enough money that is going to bind ALL evil or heal the world or bring us total health and prosperity. That is not reality or the way God works. He does not usurp our wills & we are not going to have full dominion while living on this earth or before Jesus returns. We do however at some point need to lay down our weapons and simply rest in the hands of a sovereign God.
I wish we could all talk in an open forum where most of us we aren't using aliases and comments aren't deleted. I appreciate this blog, but we can't say everything we want to say, so it's time for me to move on. I don't expect I'll even see this comment. Best of luck to you all.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know. My comment will be visible after approval. It's time for me to take a stand and find a way to speak without being censored.
ReplyDeletePeople of Cornerstone,
ReplyDeleteThe time of reason has come. You've been where you are doing what you do for some time now. What part of how God works don't you understand. I've said before "It's one thing to be faithful until the end, but only a fool never considers what the end will be of the thing to which he is faithful".
When some of you personally know me, what I stand for and my dedication to the stone while there...that which you know is just the surface of who I am. Serving God is all that matters to me, I realize through serving him I get to be what I was created to be.
My participation on the blog here is out of concern for you. When God regenerated me he regenerated a person who was very hard and callus. Religion in the church was the thing that I used to justify my wrong doings.
It took me hearing a preacher putting a face on my experiences to cause me to want to seek God for myself. While doing so the foundation was laid so broad and deep until it was the revelation coming from CStone which drew me there, I did not go there to be on the platform, My entire time there I feasted, learned and increased in God, but it got to a point that there was NO revelation coming from headship, it was coming from God to me. This cause problems because there where too many situations taking place which where not being addressed by leadership. Because leadership was not dealing with them, it opened the door for others to indulge in the like manner. Just think of ALL the fornication, adultery, homosexual and substance abuse cases you know of which happened there.
When the leadership cases where not dealt with years ago, leadership effectively tied their own hands and opened the flood gates for others to do the same has festered in the church.
So don't allow us ex members to be categorized as the enemy. Know us by our fruit, examine and question according to the voice of God in your life; If you don't it soon will be too late. God is growing tired of having his message to you hijacked for an agenda (the agenda is blessing, sowing, joining, following and trusting)
Obedience to GOD is never stressed because it would cause you not only to think outside the box, but also get out of the box all together.
Come on people push, push your deliverance is nearer that you realize.
You are not in that place with the question marks (like Arby's) floating over your head for nothing.
The only messages that can be preached from here on are those which will keep you in the house. it can't be on sin because you already know there is too much going on in the house.
Come lets reason together!
To “Ann Nonymous”:
ReplyDeleteLIFE after Cornerstone was NOT created for the purpose of “speaking out against Cornerstone”. It was created to help those who are seeking support in life AFTER. We also speak the truth (in love) with those who share the difficulty of their decision in leaving. (As clearly seen in the comment above by Bro. Leroy)
AFTER posting your first comment, I’m sure you realized then that we are on “moderator status”. This is due to the posers we had last weekend. It certainly isn’t meant to “censor” those who have good intentions.
(For all I know –YOU could be one of those posers using a previous commentor’s name…in hopes your complaining will cause us to turn “off” moderator status, so that you can get back to “work” –justsayin’)
As far as people remaining "Ann Nonymous", no one is twisting your arm.
I remember my mother once said, “IF you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all.” (Maybe we’ll add this to the Comment Policy) :)
There is a time and place for everything. This is a great blog.Whoever the author of this blog is, has been delegated by God for this appointment.Many souls are at stake and you can't go acting like a bull in a china closet, charging and destroying everything in your path.This matter doesn't have a quick fix.It is a wide epidemic of sin in the camp.Thanks to the people who do not have their own agenda, but are desiring to reach their brother and sister that are caught in the thicket. "Even a fool ,when he holds his peace,is considered a wise man." So, maybe that is why God laid it upon the heart of the blog author and not just any "anonymous" person, that is not willing to respect the standards set on this blog. Did you read the article, or is it a matter of the heart. The facts are reported, you decide.
ReplyDeleteIt funny how ann nonymous comments at 2:45 in the morning. Could you please tell me if that is West Coast time?- OR-is that priviledge info. since you evidently want to spread some venomous juicy remarks? If you are so concerned about your comments being limited, then don't limit it to the blog. Come on step up to the plate and identify yourself,either as Leroy and others have and cetainly, don't limit yourself to the blog.Speak up and stand for the truth out in public. Were you speaking out before this blog began?
ReplyDeleteI'd like to hear more comments about the R-E-A-L
"Heart of the Matter."
In continuing on with the HEART of the Matter:
ReplyDelete1 Peter 5:2-4 says--
“Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them -not because you MUST, but because you are WILLING, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not LORDING it over those entrusted to you, but being EXAMPLES to the flock.”
Pastors are to LEAD by EXAMPLE of truth, love, and godliness for God's flock to follow…
CASE IN POINT:
Q) How can you determine Whose Nature is being “lifted up” in a house?
A) By watching the level of commitment the leaders make toward upholding HOLINESS in that house.
This is WHY Bro. Leroy said:
“The only messages that can be preached from here on are those which will KEEP YOU IN THE HOUSE. it can't be on sin because you already know there is too much going on in the house.”
Where is the Call to Holiness?? “Be ye HOLY, for I am HOLY.”
The HEART of the Matter…. There is a difference between expecting "Perfection" and expecting a Leader to uphold a lifestyle of Holiness.
To Ann Nonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease feel free to use your real name & not be anonymous. Some of us are just not there yet & are still sorting out our confusion.
Those who have used there real names are doing so because they feel compelled to share the truth & lend credibility to this blog by sharing their names.
We need this blog. It is an open forum, but we can't just leave it wide open to all manner of malicious comments. There are unfortunatley innocent lives which have been wounded by the sin at CStone & some are children.
I believe Toledo Talks has a blog for that sort of thing where everybody & their brother made comments and argued & got nowhere. It served no purpose.
This blog however has an author who is praying & seeking God for guidance. The blog author is allowing us an opportunity to share our stories for support & to bring understanding of what perhaps some are not good at voicing. They merely know they have experienced a very painful & unbelievable thing with a church and pastor they once loved and faithfully served. Only now this "pastor" and the church family they once had is not there for them simply because they followed their heart & the leading of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
So, I am sorry you feel jilted by the blog author. I am sure it is tempting to allow some comments to be posted, but the author must ask what purpose it serves in helping those needing guidance & a place to voice what could never be said at CStone.
I am grateful that we have this blog which speaks truth & where articles that are based on the true Word of God are written to help us once again find sound doctrine.
You have a choice. You can continue to read & blog by the rules or you can find a blog with the kind of comments you are looking for. Either way, I wish you peace on your journey & I hope you find what you're looking for.
TOLEDO TALK seemed to be a vehicle of venting. In my book, even venting serves a purpose... it just isn't in step here or other organized recovery groups.
ReplyDeleteIf Ann Non is looking to unleash - go there. There are a bajillion posts, all about the Stone.
To Dreamer,
ReplyDeleteWOW. As I went back & reread many of these posts & have been trying to put some pieces together in my mind, you mentioned something interesting about get out from under Kingdom Now Doctrine. I always wondered about the doctrine at CStone & you gave it a name, so I looked it up - what an eye opener.
It does fit the doctrine of MP & RP & all of the other guest speakers that come. They all run in the same circles & all have the same heart - you become like those you associate with - can't be any other way.
If you go all the way back to the beginning of CStone in Maumee to when MP started rubbing elbows with Carlton Pearson & Earl Paulk, they were big adherants to Kingdom Now & look where they eneded up. And I hate to burst anyone's bubble here, but David Huskins is as well.
Read for yourself the following & then stop & think & pray about all that's been preached & lived out by MP & RP & guests. It is doctrinal error & a system of works & as Speakit! said, it does not allow for the sovereignty of God as you will see. And, I always knew that there were some endtime things that MP & RP preached that just did not sit well with my spirit.
Well, here it is in black & white:
Reasons to Reject Kingdom Now Teaching/Doctrine:
1. It requires a universal kingdom (Pearson, Huskins, Paulk beliefs)Spirits transfer you know!
2. It robs the Jews of their inheritance. (How many comments has MP made about that? If Jesus is coming back for the Jews, then He ought to go to New York, not a liitle country like Israel cause that's where they're all living). It's subtle people, you really have to listen & think. But in MP's words is his heart, for out the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
3. It removes the awareness of Jesus's return. (OK, how many times did MP preach hard at us about that. Too many folks sitting around waiting for Jesus to come. It ain't about the going up of the saints, it's about building the kingdom here & Now.)Jesus's return is our hope. this is a lost & dying world period. Only Jesus's return can salvage it, not us building kingdoms here.
4. It denies the sovereignty of the Godhead. (Enough said on that when it becomes about us being in control. Also, arguments of Jesus only -TD Jakes Belief, baptize in whose name etc.)
5.It denies the scriptural promises of endtimes.(Too much from MP on this as to even where to begin. Think people, c'mon. His genereal comments about gloom & doom _ "the world ain't just gonna blow up". The Bible doesn't say that, but MP had to make his dramatic comments & twist things about that to make his point & get the matter of his heart into yours.)
6.It rests on human ability & wisdom. (What more can you say on that - levels, destiny, anointings, revelation, giving to get).
7. It replaces Jesus with the church. (Cornerstone, Cornerstone & more Cornerstone & the church in general, not much said about Jesus).
8.It draws from corrupt roots! (Well, well, well, when your heart adheres to false doctrine what do you expect?????)
9. It requires structures based on human leadership. (WOW!Can't make it more plain than that. Headship, protocals, don't talk to guest ministry or leadership unless aproached by them. Untouchable leaders, titles (bishops, arch bishops - that title isn't in the Bible, but in Catholic doctrine & leadership, scary ushers -think bouncers).
What more can be said. Those 9 things are a meal in & of itself to feast on for some time. But as you can clearly see if your guard is down & you are listening to the Holy Spirit, MP & RP & all of the other headship adhere to false doctrine which makes them a false church, false teachers & a cult. End of story.
One of my dreams was not posted. There must be another safe place to post our feelings that cannot be shared here, but TT cannot be trusted not to give out your IP address.
ReplyDeleteTo TT,
ReplyDeleteYes, venting does serve some purpose early on in recovering from the effects of false doctrine & leadership that you suddenly realize cared nothing about you, but rather their agenda.
It's painful, it hurts & creates anger, a natural human emotion that God gave us. When you finally realize the true heart of the matter from MP & RP's "ministry", you can't help but be angry.
And it appears as the initial unveiling so to speak occurred during the HOE conference, Toledo Talks became that site to vent.
Again though, God bless this blog author for having the heart to hear God's voice and allow this blog to be a place of healing, comfort, support, truth & love.
May we all rest in the arms of a loving God as we move forward & help each other heal through our sharing.
To Dreamer:
ReplyDeleteAll of your comments have been posted. Thank you for your patience.
Is there anything you are struggling with in particular? If your concerns are too private to share on the blog, please contact us via e-mail. We would be happy to put you in contact with a local counselor if needed.
THANK YOU Just Sayin'--
ReplyDeleteI sincerely appreciate your maturity in understanding our heart… and “why” we ask that comments remain relative to the above article (if at all possible). This is how we are able to KEEP THE FOCUS on those who are truly needing the encouragement and understanding. (Esp. since some may not be able to articulate into words what they are going through; they are therefore blessed by the testimonies of others.)
To those seeking to "simply venting” --absolutely understandable! I recommend you find a good friend and get it “all out”. That is very important indeed.
With that being said, if you are someone who is seeking that particular venue, this is not the place friends. What you may be looking for is more of an actual “Forum Website”, where you can go back and forth as much as you can possibly type. (Lipstick Alley, TT, etc.) We certainly understand and there is no offense on our part! I thank you for your understanding!
Everyone Else: Keep speaking the truth in love on The Heart of the Matter….
What are some of the “Lessons Learned” that you gleaned from your time at Cornerstone?
Toledo Talk can be trusted. I don't know why anyone would think the webmaster would give out people's IP address.
ReplyDeleteThere are more than just you poor souls on it... there are all kinds of politics.
Besides, don't think for a minute your IP address is "private" - and an IP address reveals your server - not YOU.
Try an IP TWIST site.
OH BROTHER -
ReplyDeleteThe ushers weren't scary bouncers. In fact, I got bailed out a couple of times thanks to them. There are some nuts hanging around who got a little rambunctious. The Ushers did their job. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I also do not necessarily disagree with the Theology. There are many Christians who play with interpretations. That's why we have denominations.
I've always believed the Kingdom was Universal - he DID die for us ALL. Whether it is inclusion or not -- I like to think it is, but that doesn't mean it is. I also like the idea of living in the NOW. Building this joint in a way that reflects the Kingdom. I like that.
That doesn't mean I am any less frustrated. or hurt. or angry.
Someone once told me that the Ushers carried guns. I was also told that Cornerstone people are very closed minded. The truth is - there are many people there questioning many things. There are many people who believe different things. But, I always felt that the sole reason we should be there is Christ. I'm a layman tho.
For me, the poison comes in the dynamic of the machine and how the part I played in it just didn't work.
Ruben and I had a good foundation before cstone. That is one reason we are so stunned that we stayed so long.We stayed because we felt invested this church that we had put so much into was falling apart and we needed to stay and help the childrens ministry we were committed. We couldn't miss. The pastors could go on family vacations but, we felt like we couldn't miss. We had wanted to leave for two years we had attended 16 years and I knew MP 5 years before attending. We were being USED in every sense of the word at cornerstone. It was a 2 year process we slowly quit our giving, we started only attending when we had to teach. When we did sit in a service we were critical of what was being preached.We wondered where was the love of God in the house.People were blasted for leaving that were good people. Ruben and I were Traveling to the Detroit church to help with childrens ministry but we felt empty. There was no substance being preached. We were in a youth leadership meeting where JW came in and said " ultimately Christ is King but around here Bishop is King we give our gifts and talents to him and He will decided whether to use them." thats when Ruben and I knew we needed to go for the sake of our family. I was concerned that our youth were not being taught about purity or holiness living a life set apart for God. We teach these things in our home but they were not being taught in the church. We thought we left pretty on harmed but it was after we started visiting other churches that we saw the bagage we had from cornerstone when we visited churches and they would start talking about tithing and we questioned their motives or when we visited smaller churches out in the country could God really move there, or when we visited larger seeker friendly churches with what we told was a watered down message, which to our surprised was the most substance we had heard in a long time. I remember the message was about the cross I sat and cried the whole time and I felt more love in that service than I had felt in years. When my children asked why we had to leave cstone I took them to the love chapter and read that to them.It became so clear it is true that MP is a gifted speaker but without love it means nothing.There is life after cstone we go to an awesome church with a pastor that loves God and Gods people a true shepherd. The youth group is great with youth pastor that doesn't compromise Gods word and he and his wife live it out in front of the youth GOD IS GOOD and his ways are not mans ways. I pray for cstone and the people there I am sad for the hurt that has happened and is yet to come but put your focus on God and let him direct your path on this jounery to healing. It has been the best thing for family getting out of the mess and deception and seeing clearer for the first time in a long time.
ReplyDeletePart I
ReplyDeleteAllow me to share something that I have been praying about for quite some time. When you examine everything that has gone on at the Stone for the last 10 years, you will see that it is an essential topic that needs addressed. The topic? Crisis management from a Christian, Biblical, perspective. Crisis management is not rocket science, but in today’s world, it is indispensable for survival.
Most corporations around the world have developed a well thought out plan for handling the difficulties they face on a regular basis. In fact, large companies have a crisis management team in order to effectively face set-backs. Some common characteristics that crisis management experts share are as follows: (Please note, most of these are also Biblical mandates.)
1) Speak truthfully! Do not “cover up” or declare “no comment.” It makes the organization appear guilty from the very beginning. Stand up, man up, and speak directly to the issue.(John 16:13)
Ephesians 4:25 "“Wherefore, putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor…”
2) Speak calmly! Do not speak defensively or angrily.
Proverbs 15:1-2 “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger...”
3) Share frequent updates and progress reports. In the information age, it is essential to stay on top of the crisis, and inform all effected parties. In fact, lack of information allows others to control the spin. Since people will be talking about your crisis… you might as well be involved in the conversation.
Matthew 10:26 “...Everything that is secret will be brought out into the open. Everything that is hidden will be uncovered.”
4) Take responsibility! Do not play the “It’s not my fault,” game. That is for 6 year olds. Equally egregious is the “They’re all out to get me,” game. That is for the paranoid. Take responsibility for YOUR failures. In fact, it would not hurt to actually share an “apology” to the victims of your choices.
I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Do you see the wisdom in developing a coherent and biblical crisis management plan? Michael Pitts, on the other hand, has a crisis management plan that is counter-intuitive. He does none of the above. He has exhibited this poor leadership style throughout his entire ministry, but it has become more extreme in the last several years. It is time for this dysfunction to be discussed openly and dissected in detail. Unfortunately his poor crisis management style only becomes apparent after you walk away from the Stone; it is very difficult to recognize while you are in the midst of the chaos.
(To be continued...)
Part II
ReplyDeleteWhat is Michael’s broken leadership style? He exhibits a “victim mentality” when things get difficult. When life throws him a curve, he declares himself one of the casualties! Please note: in his mind… the wives of the serial adulterers are not the victims, the congregation sitting under the dysfunctional leadership is not the victim… Mike is the victim… because all those bad people are asking questions and demanding biblical responses.
People with a “victim mentality” become energy vampires. Rather than helping people, they end up draining those around them. Not only that, but people who sit under a “victim mentality” often find that their job, their health, and their financial supply become drained. This is one of the telltale signs of being around the victim mentality… you become completely exhausted trying to rescue them, trying to keep up with their expectations. The one who is supposed to be feeding you the unadulterated Word of God, is sucking the life out you, and stirring you up emotionally to protect himself.
Over the years, Michael has learned the fine art of gaining attention, and seeking approval, by becoming the “victim” of both his real, and his imagined, detractors. Like a drug addict who constantly needs a fix, he needs to be the victim of his situation in order to survive the day. And, oddly enough… rather than challenging this attitude, those with whom he has surrounded himself actually thrive on their ability to rescue him during those difficult times. Friends, family, and other "support people” may, even, approve of his behavior. It is how they gain their affirmation from him. They become his enablers because this is how they get their “buzz,’ just as he gets his “buzz” from being rescued. Sadly, at this point, the congregation to whom he is supposed to be modeling mature behavior soon gets sucked into the dysfunctional game of cheering him on in his victim mentality, as well. As a result, they, too, begin to develop the victim mentality. That is how the “us versus them” attitude can gain ground. It is like an alcoholic parent training their child to pour them a drink when they are having a difficult day. Soon it is an awful, unmanageable lifestyle for everyone involved.
(To be continued...)
Part III (final installment)
ReplyDelete“How can this unhealthy cycle be broken?” you may ask. The answer is simple. In order to break the cycle you must embrace that which brings healing: CHANGE! Yes… it is time for a change in order to see deliverance from this destructive lifestyle. Let’s examine some of the changes that must occur.
1) Remove yourself, emotionally, from the situation. The one with the “victim mentality” is COUNTING ON your emotional involvement. It is the only way they can move you toward a decision to help rescue them. They NEED you to be emotionally involved in order to enable their choices. THIS MUST STOP!!! Being led by emotions is the quickest way to encourage their poor choices.
II Corinthians 10:5 “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”
2) Make your decisions based on logic, Godly counsel, and the voice of the Holy Spirit. It is the “mind of Christ” that will ultimately break the unhealthy mental confusion. You cannot help deliver the addict if you think like the addict. You must think a new, higher level thought. This comes from God, His Word, and multiple spiritual counselors. Don’t just stick with one man’s opinion please (Proverbs 12:15, Philippians 2:5, Romans 12:2).
Proverbs 11:14 “Where there is no guidance, a people fall, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.”
3) Be willing to walk away from those who refuse to renounce a “victim mentality.” Walk away from those who refuse to take responsibility for their own choices. We, in the Body of Christ, are not victims. Christ died on our behalf in order that we can walk a new life, a healthier life, a confident life that is not bound by fear. There is nothing that we face that God cannot walk us through. We are confident valley walkers Saints.
Psalm 23:4 “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for though art with me…”
In closing, I would like to say that I am praying for your new, healthier outlook on life. I am praying that you handle life’s difficulties, not as a victim, but with humility and a Godly perspective.
Well said "aware"!!!!
ReplyDeleteI find it funny how it was a big joke that people actually needed to seek professional counseling....could that be because CC ministry is threatened when they can't cast the hurt and pain out of someone? Or could it be that they were afraid that people would wise up and see how dyfunctional that they really were?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous 1:20 PM,
ReplyDeletePart 1
Really, nothing about this is funny although I am sure you say that very tongue in cheek.
Of course things must be said about those of us who sought counseling. MP & RP have to keep the lies going & if they can make it look like the ones who have left are unstable & off, then that I guess is supposed to make them look more credible.
They are not thinking about our hurt or pain or spiritual confusion as we try to sort through the false doctrine they have & continue to preach without fail. Again, it is the heart of the matter with MP & RP & the rest of the staff for they are just as guilty, as they stand by their man or in this case their "bishop".
In a healthy church environment, members who leave are sent off with prayer, blessing & encouragement. They do not have reason or need to seek out counseling or spend months in tears over the deception & uncaring ways of supposed pastors with an agenda of their own.
The real heart of the matter is that Cornerstone has ceased to be a true biblical church. The leadership does not function as true biblical leaders should. Sure they all have gifts & abliities and many can preach or teach with great motivational style. They can get you stirred up, but not necessarily according to the Word.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteLet's look at cheerleader Jeffery Smith. Oh he had a rousing message on Sunday about Muhammed Ali & how he was greater than great & then he proceeded to let everyone know that God had made them to be great - really. "You are on your way to greatness". The truth is that not everyone is on their way to greatness. It all sounds wonderful & makes you feel good, but we can't all be great & won't be. There are going to be tough times & times of persection if you are living according to God's Word, not because you are defending the sinful questionable behavior of your leadership.(How about avoid the appearance of sin).
And, sad to say, you will not always win life's battles or always defeat your enemy. Bad things do happen to christians, but Christ is our strength. We won't make it through those tough times just because we are great or confess positive things.
I know the Word says that God is great and greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world, but I don't recall Jesus running around telling everyone how great they were. I think he was teaching them how to be humble & to love others by putting others before yourself. And if you are so great and have gifts and got it all goin' on, but have not love, you are merely as a clanging symbol making noise, but no real impact.
I think as one of the other bloggers said, "What's love got to do with it?" I guess not much unless it's for yourself and thinking how great you are. Because apparently if you are really following God's leading for your life & trying to live according to God's Word, you are off & apparently your thinking isn't right because it is outside the box of what leadership at the Stone says it should be. After all they give the illusion that they are the only ones with the real revelation.
Think hard about this - no new revelation has been preached there for a long time. As someone else said, their messages are all reconstituted. It's the same old stuff regurgitated to fit whatever crisis management they need for the present crisis. I don't know of any other churches that have to spend so much time doing damage control publically or within the walls of their church as the Stone does.
Then when things get really bad, they have to bring in the cheerleader to pump everyone up about how great they are and how they are going to knock out their opponent aka us out here who misunderstand them & write posts on these evil blogs.
It's all just so sad really. And then they send out the big bad intercessors to pray us all back into their fold. Get real. That's like going back to a bad marriage after you have separated yourself & your abusive spouse has done nothing to change. Or better yet, the abusive dysfunctional spouse has merely gone through hoops to give the appearance of making changes - surface dressing so to speak.
Why not just pray according to God's will, not their own will? Oh, I forgot, the heart of the matter is that it's all about them & MP & RP's business agenda. So why would they pray according to God's will for anything? They must continue with their manipulation of the hand of God (controlling) otherwise known as witchcraft.
And any other gospel that is preached, being mixed with motivational messages, hidden agendas, etc. is not the Word of God & constitutes false doctrine, nothing more, for a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
You are correct in that the revelation has definately stopped flowing in the house. I have been left in amazement after at least the last 10 "services" scratching my head saying; "what was that"? Robert Pitts, please sit down.
ReplyDeleteThe praise and worship sounds like nails on a chalkboard, void of any annointing as well..It all has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth...
To Something Smells Funny,
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that you have noticed the lack of revelation in spite of the "gifts" that "flow". The truly sad thing is that the anointing left the house years ago. What you have now is people going through the motions and operating in the flesh. The Spirit is gone, more than likely grieved at all of the sin that has gone on in the house.
As for Robert, yes, sit down please. I found it amazing when he was praying in tongues during Sunday's service, trying hard to work something up. There was no flowing in the Spirit, but rather Robert trying hard to look anointed & get some kind of flow going. Speaking in tongues for the sake of speaking in tongues to look spiritual means nothing.
When something smells funny, you try your best to rid the environment of the source of the foul smell. In this case, the putrid smell doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.
So, my best advice to you is to leave the premises & rid yourself of the stench. The stench being the decaying of what once was a church that flowed in the Spirit & didn't have to work so hard in the flesh to make things appear as if they still got it goin' on spiritually.
Not everyone can be Muhammad Ali, Ronald Reagan, or Donald Trump although we would like to believe with God and a good rousing message that anything is possible.
ReplyDeleteThe reality: It is a false hope message that will leave you disillusioned after years of striving and no results.
Maybe we should teach the Bible. Here is what Jesus has to say about "greatness".
Matt 18:1. At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Humility is the key to greatness. Not a rousing message about a boxer. Admitting you are wrong and have made an error in judgement will make you great because people have a strong tendency to forgive people if they are humble.
Standing in front of those you are leading and admitting to your short comings and need for help is a display of humility and will make you great in God's Kingdom.
Being humble and admitting that you have been led astray by the love of money and that you are returning to your first Love, that will make you great.
I have never seen Godly greatness at Cornerstone because there is no humility amongst the leaders. No one ever admits to failing and falling nor apologizes for their actions and how they have hurt other people.
Jeff, if you want greatness you have to be humble and honest and transparent with those you have been entrusted to my brother. Not those who are controlling you and paying your bills.
I pray for you to be great the Bible way...
It is important to make the distinction between how the world defines greatness and how Jesus defined greatness.
ReplyDeleteOne seeks to please and get the affirmation from man, and the other lives a life of humility before God and those in whom he under shepherds.
Which greatness do you seek is the real question....
To eyes wide open;
ReplyDeleteyou are correct and it is so sad. For years I would go to church hungry and could barely wait to get in the building knowing I would hear from the Lord about my situation..the atmosphere was thick with the spirit of God, I loved everything about it.. Now, well lets just say I can barely make it there at all. I watch online hoping to see or hear some of that humility and transparency but every week it is the same regurgitated message from last month or last year, no annointing and no revelation. I am so diappointed in them I could just cry. I have lost respect for the bishop and really can hardly believe this wonderful place has turned into what it has turned into. I just dont know why he wont address any of this. I mean he has to know what is going on and I am very surprised that his wife hasnt said hey dude what the heck are you allowing to happen here? It is all too sad. I am so disolusioned right now. I dont know what to do or how to deal with this. I am so sad. My heart is broken.
To Something Smells Funny,
ReplyDeleteYou are where most of us have been in the leaving process. Count yourself blessed as God is opening your eyes and revealing things to you.
MP & RP ceased being true godly pastors a long time ago. They have gotten caught up in wrong teaching known as doctrines of devils. Their consciences have been so seared that if they don't repent soon, God is not going to allow the false kingdom they have built to continue much longer. It is imploding.
What you are experiencing is the withdrawal to the psychological dependency of Cornerstone. Once you have been a member long enough & become fully indoctrinated which takes years, you become psychologically dependent. You have lost your ability to think for yourself through the years & are now having to re-establish trust in your thinking & trust in God & the Holy Spirit's leading for your own life.
It's an allusion, MP isn't the only one with "revelation". He has caused all of those who sat under his ministry for so long to be followers of him & not Christ. As it says in Rom.6:16 ...you become slaves of the one whom you obey. We are not to become slaves of men, no matter how spiritually authoritative they make themselves out to be. (1Cor.7:23)
And that is the true heart of the matter, MP has gotten caught up in a heavy-handed Shepherding doctrine. He is a member of the ICCC & pledged his allegience to them when he became a bishop. The ICCC has its roots in Earl Paulk & Huskins was a follower of Paulk. Paulk was a big proponent of the Shepherding movement.
You can find out more about that by checking out this website titled Charismatic Captivation. It is a chapter from the book Charismatic Captivation & is a bit wordy & lengthy, but spells things out clearly.
The website is www.slm.org/pubs/samples/ccbook2.html
Continue to pray and seek God for the strength & wisdom you need to follow His leading for your life.
If you are waiting for things to change at the Stone, they won't until all of the leadership humbles themselves & repents of their doctrines of devils which is the equivalent of witchcraft. Those under its influence have become bewitched & that is why sin is rampant in the house.
It isn't all of the bad people out here attacking them in there. It is them doing it to themselves because they refuse to follow Christ. They are caught up in following man in more ways then one from the top down.
I think in your heart you know what to do. It won't be easy, but in time you will find it most freeing to finally let go of the yoke of bondage to CStone & its heavy-handed leadership.
You are in our prayers & again, thank God for this blog which is helping to set the captives free.
To something smells funny:
ReplyDeleteYou need to hear this: It’s not “you”…there is nothing wrong with “you”.
Friend, you are experiencing EXACTLY what the rest of us have. Loss. The truth of the matter is, something was “lost” a long time ago. Each of us just realized it at different times. And you know what –that is alright!
It's over when God says it's over. And it will be bitter-sweet --you will be FREE, but also free from something your heart was connected with for many years. And as you move forward, you will experience a range of emotions in the healing process. But most importantly, you WILL experience such a deeper relationship with the Lord, as He draws so very near to you at this time.
Open your ears and HEAR what the Spirit of the living God is saying to you at this time. Right that Word down….and hold onto it. HE’S GOT YOU IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND!
Please know that we are praying for you!! Be encouraged. Be thankful. God is revealing the truth to you. Know that He is STILL absolutely 100% in control. He knew this day was coming your way and He is ready to help you get to the other side. Jesus our Lord knows exactly what is going on. So rest assured that He has a plan FOR YOU and each step (EACH STEP) will be ordered by Him. Don't pressure yourself to "figure everything out"... it's AS you move forward, that things will make sense. The clouds will lift and clarity will come. You will get through this…You WILL get through this. BUT –you must TRUST Him with the process…
YOUR PROMISED LAND IS WAITING ON -YOU-.
How does this happen and the bishop not know, and better yet allow it? How do human beings do this to so many people and sleep at night?
ReplyDeleteI have been sitting here trying to think of when the "shift" took place in there and why didnt I see it? I feel so stupid.. I let go of lifelong friends because they mocked me, my pastor, my church and my God and I refused to allow that so I ended up totally friendless but I chose God and I dont regret that decision to choose God but now I feel like I have wasted 17 years of my life believing in something that was a lie, believing in people that were laughing behind closed doors at all the idiots sitting in the sanctuary as they counted our hard earned money that we sowed in faith, planning their next over seas vacation when I have never been able to even afford 1 vacation, in my whole life!
I have given up countless thousands of hours of my time to serve in that church with all my heart, believing I was standing with this man of God doing Gods work, making a difference in peoples lives.
I have tried to live a holy life before God and everytime I thought of doing something stupid I would always think would this make God and my pastor proud? Would this bring reproach on my church and church family? you know what I mean?
I believed him...I believed in him...I defended him...I lived and breathed cornerstone. I was connected, invested and he has just been making fools of all of us..for money and fame??? WOW. I never ever thought one time that he would ever do anything deliberatley to hurt anyone..But I guess thats what I get for thinking.
Who does this to people? This is the stuff you see on dateline..you dont live it in Toledo Ohio!
I think I am going to plan a long vacation, go somewhere warm and just talk to my Daddy about all of this. thanks for listening.
To something smells funny (SSF):
ReplyDeleteMy heart aches for you and your pain ~ I served (am still serving) for 16 years now myself and I totally/respectfully disagree with telling it like it is...I never have been dependent on CStone, MP, RP, or anyone else for that matter...I have been and will continue to be dependent on GOD AND GOD ALONE! Like you, SSF, I served as unto the Lord and thought I was furthering God's Will...but reflection seems to make me think otherwise. Now, my hesitance to leave is two-fold...1) I have great many relationships/family in the Church and I know my departure would seriously hinder, if not completely end these relationship and I would miss them dearly as I miss those of you who have left. Plus I have children involved too with ministry and friends. 2) I serve in a ministry where I know I am called to teach the next generation and I don't take that lightly...they need someone there with a pure/humble heart to lead them to Jesus...I feel called to protect them in a sense not to puff myself up, but to show them the love of Jesus that maybe they aren't getting at home or even at their church. I do know this...I'm growing ever impatient and more concerned that NONE of these issues have been addressed and yes most of the messages are geared towards keeping those of us who are waiting to see change stay. But, I say this to our Leadership who I KNOW are reading...GET BACK TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER! GET BACK TO YOUR FIRST LOVE! SHOW SOME COMPASSION TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO HAVE LEFT HURT BY YOUR ACTIONS! STAND UP AND SAY SOMETHING! HUMBLE YOURSELF BY BEING HONEST WITH THOSE YOU CALL YOUR FAMILY! I do agree with this...God WILL NOT be mocked! God knows your heart and is searching it...what was done in the dark will be revealed in the light and you will have to answer to HIM for your actions or lack thereof!
Peace and Love to all my brothers and sisters who are struggling with staying and going and all those already gone~You will never know how truly very much you are missed by those of us not all wrapped and drinking the kool-aid! Still serving, still waiting - but not sure how long - and as always STILL TRUSTING GOD!
Amen Struggling... thank you for sharing. We certainly want God’s will to be done in everyone’s lives.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, there is more at the “Heart of the Matter” than what people realize. And each of us must search our own hearts FIRST, in order to ANSWER the questions that can only be solved by Him. The COURAGE you are seeking (LION) is already within you –it’s the CONFIDENCE that you're hearing and following the Voice of the Holy Spirit.
Part II
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, we can do MUCH damage to our lives –if we continue to IGNORE the warning signs that are being presented to us by Him!
CASE IN POINT: Michael Pitts (in regards to him personally)
Some people may disagree with me, but I will say it anyway. I truly believe there is a redemptive quality in him. (Yes, I said that.) He is a person first and foremost. I am NOT saying this to give people “false hope” that he will do the right thing in regards to Cornerstone. (imo -that ship has already sailed.) But I am sharing this because this is what the Lord has shown me. He is a son, a husband, a father, and a brother... PEOPLE PLEASE ------->>There is MORE at stake here than keeping the doors of 1520 Reynolds Rd. open. Much more! Not to say that Cornerstone was never important, it just isn’t ALL that is important in regards to the bigger picture.
Personally, I would rather see someone receive the help and healing they need, than to continue enabling an atmosphere that supports their destruction. At the end of the day, I’m sure that Michael truly wants to be loved and accepted just like everyone else does.
◘ He came to Toledo to preach –that was the heartbeat of his Cause. Regardless of how “tough” he portrays himself on the platform, I’m sure things are quite different for him in public. How would you feel, if you had to face the fact that the very city God sent you to –thinks your a joke?? He knows it or lies to himself (one of the two).
◘ It is a painful thing to know that your heart has been broken, by your very own hands.
But, when you are a public figure who has private problems -what is one to do?? When you don’t humble yourself and DEAL with your problems, you are forced to play “VICTIM” in order to HIDE. And without honesty, one has to constantly play the “role” of themselves for the sake of “appearances”. This is completely exhausting. –AND- The reason WHY a system to facilitate CONTROL is birthed in the first place. (the cost however, is that in the long-term... things end up out of YOUR control)
So, whether you stay or whether you go –is not an indicator of “how much” you love Michael Pitts. Please understand, this is quite a COMPLEX situation. Most of us will probably NEVER fully understand or comprehend what went on behind the scenes…and the GOOD NEWS IS: It’s NOT needed in order to have a general understanding and closure to the situation. God will put the pieces to the puzzle together for your INDIVIDUAL life!
◘ With that being said: IF GOD IS REVEALING THINGS TO YOU that would indicate you ARE supporting an unscriptural leadership structure: This IS your life-preserver. Stop rearranging the furniture on the deck of the Titanic! You need to find the nearest EXIT door and not turn back…things will not change because you want it bad enough. For the headlines read “What could have been”.
What has already been decided, IS currently unfolding. David said, “Is there not a Cause?” What is the Cause that you live for in your life? And does it line up with your current surroundings?? At the end of the day, Michael and Robert will be held accountable for ALL that God gave them …and SO WILL YOU.
I realize this is not the place BUT does anyone know where to find Craig & R Vassar? I have asked the offie and been told they are not available for the last few weeks. Just trying to reach them, that's all.
ReplyDeleteGalatians 1:6
ReplyDeleteI am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel
Which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse.
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse.
Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
This question Paul poses to the believers in Galatia is the same one we should ask ourselves today...
Are we trying to get our affirmation and approval from earthly leaders or from God?
Paul also points out that if someone is preaching another gospel (one based on works to attain right standing or Blessing with God)then they are under God's curse....
Just something to ponder...
To Joe,
ReplyDeleteCraig & R Vassar no longer attend CStone. No other details at this time. Suffice it to say, another CStone casualty.
To Struggling,
ReplyDeletePart 1
You are allowed to disagree with what others say, but I caution you to really listen to yourself and what you are saying about why you can't leave. It is the same trap & lie that so many others struggled with who are now gone including myself.
No one wants to believe that they are psychologically or emotionally or in any other way "dependent" on anyone. But the truth of the matter comes in your actions.
If as you say you are dependent totally on God, then He will see you through & He will as well take care of the children, your friendships, relationships etc. But the question is, who are they really following??
It is noble of you to think that the children need you to show them the true love of Jesus. However, you are not going to change or imapct the arrogant headship which more than likely really doesn't care about your heart's desires or motives, only theirs. That has been made quite evident.
Secondly, we all had to weigh the cost of leaving family, friends, & relationships behind and no, it wasn't easy. But ask yourself this: If we are all truly brothers & sisters in Christ, why would those who supposedly love you & you them, treat you so stand-offishly if you leave? That is not the love of Christ by any means because the true love of Christ is neither shown nor taught in the walls of CStone by your headship there. THey have a completerly different agenda.
That is exactly what everyone here is trying to explain in so many ways through testimonies, examples, through sound doctrine & use of Scripture to show where the "headship" of CStone has gone astray.
Again, nobody wants to believe they are dependent, but you are by the very nature of the machine. They have made it so, ever so cunningly through their doctrines & structure & how they treat people based on their service & giftings etc. or lack thereof. You as the Bible says, have become ensnared. It is a deceptive spirit you are sitting under & EVERYONE under it is affected by it. That's how spirits operate according to MP himself. You know, the whole atmospheres, climates, strongholds teachings - they aren't exempt & neither are you.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that they are teaching another gospel and are accursed and their consciences have been seared. That is why they can continue on and not care about what they have done or how many hurting sheep have left the walls of their church. They have to put it out there that we are the ones who are off & disgruntled or hurt & "just get over it". That mentality gets taught & passed down to current members. You know that, otherwise you wouldn't fear leaving so much & losing so much.
So, again, who are you truly trusting & truly dependent on? God is a great big God & He can take care of all that you are presently struggling with & worrying about if you leave.
The problem is that churches are like families & CStone has just become one big dysfunctional family with a whole lot of co-dependency going on. If that weren't so, then why would so many struggle to leave? ANSWER: Unhealthy, ungodly leadership won't allow you to leave in a healthy way. They have to make you look like the guilty offended disgruntled party so that they look like the "righteous upstanding, stable" better half. It's all about appearances with them to keep the allsuion of all is well going. You know, they ignore the giant pink elephant in the living room.
There are no hard feelings toward you Struggling, but as so many have testified to here, these are just some things to think about. Those of us who have recovered or are in recovery understand things in terms of recovery like codependency, guilt, shame, etc. You are no different. The very fabric & system of the Stone has made it that way & you are part of the system, & have been affected by it. After all you have a leader who can't admit he has a problem with alcohol. It's like having an alcoholic parent and all that you experience because of their alcoholism. Denial is all part of the addiction & then the addicts look for someone to blame & place the guilt on.It's all their fault that I'm this way (victim mentality).
So Struggling, we will keep you in our prayers as you struggle to let go. As they say in recovery, we must learn to LET GO & LET GOD. And along those same lines, the Serenity Prayer is great too - simple but profound:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (that is pretty much everything outside of ourselves). The courage to change the things that I can (me , myself & I - my thoughts, my words, my actions) & the WISDOM to know the difference.
God bless you Struggling as you look to Jesus to comfort you and guide you in your decisions. We are all here to help you if you need it & want it.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteThis post is for you as a fellow brother in Christ. I love you and would venture to say that we all love you. This blog has been orchestrated by God as a wake up call for you to repent (change the way you think) and as a healing place for the wounded.
God loves you and whom the Lord LOVES he CHASTENS. You cannot run any longer. You cannot hide any longer. You cannot postpone this chastisement with Roberts worldly wisdom and trickery any longer. If you want the LOVE of God, you are going to, like all of us, endure the chastening.
That is the Bible way to the "next level".
God is long suffering with all of us but I am sensing this is the final plea with you because too many of God's children have been scattered, slandered, abused, lied to, bankrupted, and hurt by your ministry.
You have lost your way and are leading countless people astray down a road that leads to disillusionment and financial ruin.
Ask yourself this....has it all been worth it? Is this what you envisioned when you opened the first storefront in Toledo? Is it? Maybe it was?
Michael, It never had to be this way. This blog, all the numerous websites, the scores of hurt and damaged people that have attended Cornerstone over the years. This could have all been avoided. It really could have been....
God was reaching out to you in the 90's before all this exposure but you would not heed his voice and direction. He was pleaing with you by the Spirit but instead you were pulled by the money and the fame and yoking with ungodly ministries that taught doctrines of men, fables, and fabrications and alterations of the Truth.
Your kingdom building became more important than your love for the King. Your name and titles fed the insecurities and low self esteem that God wanted to heal. It was a trap and here we are today.
All this is a manifestation of reaping what you have sowed over the past 25 years. You have faced many forks in the road and made decisions that were contrary to the spirit and nature of Jesus.
The reality is a person like yourself has the insight and wisdom to look back and know exactly when the compromise began. There is always a seed and a root system to the fruit borne.
The seed was the love of money, the roots are all types of evil (not the sacrificing babies or drinking blood type) but this type: Slandering, lying, and defaming on people who felt God was calling in them in a different direction for their life.
There is no excuse. This is wrong and it is not the LOVE of God nor the fruit of a Pastor or Bishop. It is a deep insecurity and need have approval from all people that you MUST ALLOW GOD TO HEAL in this season.
Hiring a crisis management firm is not the answer. Sitting at your desk and coming up with crafty ways to avoid the writing on the wall is not the answer. The people are opening their eyes to the deception and deceit and are walking away from your kingdom. It will continue until the building is empty. God will no longer be mocked.
You can run to another city and try it there but GOD WILL BE WITH YOU THERE ALSO. You cannot run from Him, He is committed to your chastisement and your transformation.
It's this easy. Come before the people open and honest about EVERYTHING. Be broken and sincere and plea for forgiveness and reconciliation.
Call every past leader whom you have slandered and mistreated that gave their lives and families for you and invite them to the Church for a time of reconciliation and forgiveness. Apologize for all the hurt you have caused them and restore them financially if that is what it takes.
It's that easy. Humility is the key to restoration and greatness. There are no other outs.
We are praying for your restoration back to Jesus and sound doctrine.
To Eyeswideopen,
ReplyDeleteWhat more can be said? You have summed it up nicely. Now the ball is in Michael's court & all of his ministry staff's court for they too know what has been going on. They have been a part in keeping things going as they too are reaping something from this behavior of Michael's.
May God bring a true spirit of repentance on them all. For if we endure chastening God deals with us as sons for what son is there whom a father does not chasten.
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers,then you are illegitimate and not sons (bastards in a note in my Bible from the days in which Michael still taught from the Bible). Heb. 12:7,10
And yes there are no other outs - humility is the only key to restoration & greatness.
As always, we are praying for Michael & all of CStone's leaders for restoration back to Jesus & sound doctrine. It can be no other way.
Oh brother, not again. Another "trumped" up message from the Stone. Metrons, protocols, partnership, spiritual people etc.,etc. Why haven't I ever heard any other church use the word metron?? Maybe because it's not in the Bible, you know the God inspired Word, not just a letter.
ReplyDeleteThe spirit trumps the letter. Say what? The Bible was written by Holy Spirit inspired men of God. That doesn't count for anything? I'm pretty sure all the revelation God wanted us to have is contained in His Word. Funny how protocols, levels, & metrons aren't in there.
So, you can say & do anything by the "Spirit" & not have any Scripture to back it up??
C'mon people same old repackaged, reconstituted "revelatory spiritually gifted Michael" jumbalaya.
The bottom line is he makes it sound like CStone is the only church in town with spiritual people & all the rest of us are just religious folks living only by the letter. We place too much emphasis on the Bible instead of the Spirit. the Word clearly says that the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit brings life, not it trumps the letter! Quite a different story than ol' Mike is preaching.
Well, I'll be how dare we christians use the Word of God as our guide in life?? We should all just be acting more spiritual & set that old letter aside.
Well, my Bible tells me that the Word of God is living & powerful, sharper than any 2-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul & spirit, and of joints & marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts & INTENTS OF THE HEART.
I have a question for Michael - what are the real intents of your heart because it ain't teaching the infallible Word of God.
Perhaps focusing on the real truth of God's Word as opposed to Michael's spiritual jumbalaya is just too convicting for him. It is rather meant for the religious folks like us.
All that can be said is, "OH Brother!"
Wake up folks - he is a false teacher!
Funny how Michael uses a poker term to describe how the Spirit trumps the letter.
ReplyDeleteI guess he ought to know about trumping others's hands.
I'm just sayin' that is the heart of the matter -trumped up spiritual discernment & revelation without even using the Word as His spiritual measuring stick so to speak. What kind of pastor/bishop does that?
“The Letter Kills, but the Spirit gives life.” To understand this phrase we must first see it in context:
ReplyDelete2 Corinthians 3--
1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3YOU SHOW THAT YOU ARE A LETTER FROM CHRIST, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on TABLETS OF HUMAN HEARTS.
4Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6HE HAS MADE US COMPETENT AS MINISTERS OF A NEW COVENANT—NOT OF THE LETTER [OT LAW] BUT OF THE SPIRIT; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
• Paul does NOT say that SCRIPTURE kills but the Spirit gives life. Rather he has said that the LAW/Letter "on tablets of stone" in the Old Covenant brought condemnation and death. BUT WHERE THE *SPIRIT* WRITES THAT SAME LAW/LETTER ON THE "tablets of human hearts" – it brings LIFE!
Paul is making a distinction between the Old Covenant (written on stone) and the New Covenant that is presented inside us by the Spirit! The letter (the law) killed because no one was able to keep it. It made us guilty, while the New Covenant sets us free from the condemnation of the law! The law was fulfilled in the ONLY one who could have fulfilled it -Jesus Christ. Now we have the Spirit of God inside us all because of this new covenant that is superior to the old covenant.
It was CLEAR in his message that he was implying that the "Letter" was all Scripture.
ReplyDelete● “The Spirit TRUMPS the Letter”??
● “Spiritual Protocol”??
● “The Power of Partnership”??
Is Michael doing lunch with Oprah and Eckhart Tolle now???
Friends do not be deceived…. These cliché phrases are nothing less than what the Bible refers to as FALSE TEACHINGS --birthed out of Fear, Pride, Control, and NEW AGE Seducing Spirits.
Aka “Revelation” teachings received OUTSIDE of the parameters of Scripture. This is exactly what "Philosophies of Men" mingled with Scripture looks like. (An interesting note: A central and unique claim of Mormonism is that of MODERN, ongoing revelation...or in Charismatic Circles -Carlton Pearson)
“TRUMP’’ would indicate that there is something “else” that is of higher value.
Secondly, how can the Written Word of God be “lower” than the Spirit of the God that gave it?? Are they not One in the same? Who do you think breathed the Word…The Spirit's Witness has been Written!
II Timothy 3--
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION [divinely breathed] OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Thirdly, suggesting that something can be “trumped”…would have to mean that they are different in “rank”. (Such as an Ace trumps a King in card games for example.) Well, if something is of a different “rank”, then their "class" of authority would be different as well. THIS is why it is NEVER a good idea to use “card terms” to teach the Word of God.
Oh, I forgot…we are not worried about PROVING our teachings or manifestations by Scripture, because “the Spirit trumps His own Word.”
BOTTOM LINE: God is NEVER going to SPEAK/REVEAL or MANIFEST something that is not supported by HIS WRITTEN WORD. Period. End of Story. This is NEW AGE Doctrine of Demons…. And you need to RUN from THIS teaching! I would say that of ANY “minister” who preaches such heresy. (Adding a Gideon Bible Rep at the end doesn’t fix it either.)
I think Proverbs 30:5, 6 says it well--
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar."
Speaking the Truth in Love,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it any better. Amen!!
Yes, since when did the Spirit outrank the Word of God? Again, that assumes those illusive levels are in existence that can't seem to be found in Scripture.
It is so scary that Michael's preaching continues to go farther & farther out there. Did he even crack the bible open at all today?? Instead, he used poker terms to explain spiritual things.
My prayer is for those who continue to sit under such heresy & see nothing wrong with it. That is a dangerous place to be. They are in danger of losing all spiritual discernment to have their itching ears tickled & to continue in utter idolatry of their "bishop".
Please, please my friends in Christ, it is time to run to the nearest exit. Stop the excuse making. God is not going to stand by much longer and allow such false & twisted doctrine to go forth, lest your consciences become seared as well.
Speaking Truth in Love,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better. Amen!!
You are right, since when does the Spirit outrank the Word. If that is the case, then why even bother with the Word? Why not just treat it like those who consider it a nice story, but certainly not infallible or to be taken literally??
It is a slippery slope to be on & the closest thing to heresy you can get.
I say to my friends at CStone, it is time to stop making excuses & run to the exits. You are in danger of losing your ability to discern things if you haven't already. You are blinded to the truth of God's Word due to the idolatry of Michael & his supposed revelations.
If it doesn't line up with the Word, it is false teaching & there is only one thing to do - run. Using poker terms to explain how the Spirit outranks the Word should be a good indication that Michael's preaching keeps getting farther & farther away from the truth of God's Word. That is especially evident when he implies that the letter is all Scripture.
May God be true & every man a liar. MP's "revelatory" words can no longer be trusted as truth. Read your Bible for yourself, that is a great place to start because it is obvious that Michael's heart is no longer in preaching the unadulterated Word of God. Take heed!
To Speaking Truth...
ReplyDeleteExcellent exegesis of the Word! When Paul was speaking of the "letter" killing... he was speaking of the Old Covenant law... those mandates, those expectations, that could never be met. The Law was something that brought death because you could never fulfill every aspect of it. The law is broken on a regular basis in our lives, if not in actual deed, in thought, as Jesus said... "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Matthew 5:21-22)
So... clearly, we cannot fulfill the law... it leads to death... hence the thought, "the letter kills, the spirit gives life." Now, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we have been set free from the constant damage done by the law, its mandates, its rules, its expectations.
Romans 8:2-3 "For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh."
Jesus Christ did not set us free from the Word of God... My goodness, HE IS THE WORD OF GOD (John 1:1) He set us free from the mandate of death brought on by failing to fulfill all the law.
It is so sad to see Michael fall so far from Biblical exegesis... He is no longer preaching the very Word of God that brings deliverance. Clearly, there is an agenda to pull people away from the truth that will set them free... Michael desires to speak a doctrine that will bring you into bondage to the will of that house.
Paul warned of this day when men would alter the Word for their on purposes.
Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
To Just Sayin and everyone else...THANK YOU! I feel your love and genuine concern. Honestly I sat in service yesterday and MP made a comment about PEOPLE in low places and who am I listening too? Why does he continue to address this blog without being honest...humble...heartfelt...why does he continue to place the blame or slander others... are our brothers & sisters lower than us because they left? because they are hurt? As I sat there....I heard God say in my heart...MP is hurt and acting our of his hurt with anger...the bible says Be angry and SIN not...pepole make life choices Bishop and we all must accept these life choices...you once said you weren't called to be everyone's Pastor...then move on and forgive folks who have left. Eyeswideopen and the Author have so eloquently interpretted your message from yesterday...as I listened I struggled with your interpretation...God's Word is above all...how can you now start tearing that up? I now need to figure out how to break free from the dysfunction! Thank you all for your prayers and support!
ReplyDeleteMichael is very insecure and needs the constant attention and approval of those around him.
ReplyDeleteHe is so self absorbed to the place where all he thinks about when people (leaders) leave is himself and how it hurts him to be "betrayed".
He has no care or concern at all about how it affects others who leave with the left boot of Robert's fellowship and no thanks for your money and time for the last 15 years.
Your right. He gets hurt that people aren't going to watch his circus anymore and decide to move onto a place where sound doctrine is being taught and real LOVE demonstrated by leaders.
People don't leave because they don't agree with the color of the paint on the walls or the wild animals mounted in Robert's office, or the age of the carpet, or layout of the building.
They leave because he teaches things not found in the Bible and has a controlling spirit that NEVER will allow anyone to be released that may get more praise than him.
They leave because everything that is promised NEVER COMES TO PASS and the lights come on that it's False hopes forever messages to sift more and more money from the dumb sheep.
If you have a great gift it threatens him and his so you sit for 25 years until you realize you are just wasting your time jumping through hoops to no avail.
He wants to keep fighting though when he should be humbling himself before the people and getting this over with....the more you fight GOD (not the devil folks)the harder its going to be on you cause God is committed to your transformation above anything else...
Put down the sword Michael and pick up the olive branch..please...
To Struggling,
ReplyDeleteIt really does help when the Author & Eyeswideopen spell it out. And I hate to say it, but sometimes you just have to make a clean break & not try to explain yourself when you leave. Remember,your ultimate submission & obedience is to God, not MP & the Stone. Don't feel as if you have to give them any explanation unless you want to. And you certainly don't owe them anything. In fact, quite the opposite is true.
However, as has happened to past memebers when they leave, if you meet with MP or most likely RP, it becomes an exit meeting set to humiliate you. They want the last word to put you in your place so to speak. They did it with Rich Maus, why would it be any different with you? Just something to think about from those who have already been through it.
Perhaps you can just gradually pull away & write them a letter if you have to. It depends how strong you are & what you are willing to deal with. As for myself, I gradually pulled out of the ministry I was in & then I began attending fewer & fewer services, until my spirit finally said, no more & then I stopped going. I never told any pastor there that I was leaving & that was after nearly 20 years of faithfully serving & tithing. I knew telling them would do no good as I had seen what happened to others who did so.
Our prayers will be with you. We have all been where you are & it is not an easy place. We are here for you & we too wish MP would just humble himself & do what he should do as a supposed man of God.
Unfortunately, he has a lot to lose - the potential loss of network churches which equates to $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Their tithes & offerings come to him or at least a good portion of them. He has to save face, so he just keeps coming up with his trumped up messages with nary a Bible passage in sight, just the Gideon man to make it all look on the up & up as if He still believes in preaching from the Word.
And then the messages & worship are really all about them in there & us out here. And not just those of us who have left, but all of those who are "religious" & don't understand the spirit or have the revelation that the people of the Stone have. Songs that are sung with "our" or "we" really are meant to imply those in the Stone, not the Body of Christ as a whole. Any song about fighting or winning is implied again for the enlightned folks in the Stone against all those religious, unenlightend folks out there that are against them & trying to stop them. That is what another blogger I think meant by the manipulation of the praise & worship. It becomes almost a war cry to show that no one can touch them in there. And MP is the biggest role model for that. He will never put down the sword & pick up the olive branch, sad to say.
It has all gone too far & He is now preaching open false doctrine.
So, you have good reason to break free & you will. We are here for you.
God's peace & strength be yours as you follow His leading.
@ Just Sayin':
ReplyDeleteGreat post. You break it down very well. And yes the preaching of open false doctrine must be outed & dealt with by those of us who see it & call it for what it is.
If you become aware of false teaching & questionable ministries, there can only be one response - get out from under it, quickly. Yes, continue to pray for them, but get out before that spirit gets on you & causes your spiritual eyes to become blinded & it ain't by the light my friends.
By the way, anybody heard how the ol' Ladies Conference went? It was pretty much blacked out on the internet. I guess it was go & pay or no way you're seeing it.
Take care & God bless all. Your comments have been most helpful & insightful in seeking out the truth & walking it out in love.
Thanks to the author whoever you are for allowing such open & honest dialogue and for shining the light of God's truth in love. We live in a dark, deceptive & changing hour & must watch & pray. There is a whole lot of shakin' goin' on in God's kingdom & He alone will sift the wheat from the tares. It's coming, it is here. So hold on to the real truth found in God's Word, not man's revelation of things not found in His Word.
Peace out. Love you all.
An intersting note about the ladies conference.
ReplyDeleteA few months ago when the bishop was out of town, Nina Marie Leslie came and gave a very looooong prophecy to kathi pitts about the ladies conference. She told her "thus saith the Lord, you are to stream the conference over the internet because there are women who cant come that God is going to deliver" well , she cried and sobbed and agreed to do that..because she is so fatithful to God and all....
so then recently, after this blog and others as well as the scuttlebutt in the church where women were expressing great displeasure in having to pay to go to the coference and that many were not going to go but rather watch online, not out of rebellion but ok kathi this city is BROKE and so are the folks in it! I am assuming the "prophecy" went out the window and she announced she was not streaming it so all the ladies that God was set to deliver are just SOL! thanks kathi for your everlasting obedience to the word of the Lord!
disolusioned,
ReplyDeleteThe reason they didn't stream it is because streaming video stopped at the cross, but paying an admission fee to hear the word of God PASSED through the cross...you didn't know this?
To anonymous:
ReplyDeleteOhhhh, thanks for the clarification. Now I get it...well, either way. I am stopping at the cross when it comes to paying to hear the word of God! That is ridiculous!! sounds to me like the greedy beetle bit somebody...
Michael Pitts's most recent fb post was "you will know u r starting to love like Jesus when u outrage the pharisees.. love anyway." Huh? Where on earth does he get this idea? You will know you LOVE like Jesus when Pharisees get outraged. This is just getting delusional.
ReplyDeleteTo No More Passes,
ReplyDeleteWell, what more would one expect from Michael Pitts?
That is his version of love. There is no chapter & verse of course about loving like Jesus if you outrage the Pharisees. Maybe he should go back to 1 Cor. 13 & reread the verses on love.
But silly me, that would not fit into his version & preaching of the Word according to Michael's revelation.
And, I am sure that in Michael's delusional mind of twisted false teaching, that we on this blog are amongst the Pharisees.
I refer readers back to the list of questions in the previous article on the Heart of Worship from Anonymous Feb. 23. How many of those fit the bill for Cornerstone? Nearly all of them. Scary stuff, but that is what the prosperity churches in America have come to - control, manipulation & teaching of false doctrine.
Just sayin'....
So, the cross becomes the vehicle to use in deciding which false doctrines MP adheres to?
ReplyDeleteI guess he can make up whatever he wants to justify things & the blind sheeple who put Michael & his revelation & Cornerstone above God & His Word will just keep eating it up, like blind sheep do.
Too bad they don't realize that they are not feeding in green pastures. They are feeding on poison tainted pastures of false doctrine, Jezebelic perverse spirits, with a huge dose of pride and arrogance.
And let's face it, nothing pure & undefiled can come out of that without the hand of God purging it & clearing out all of the impurities.
Interesting comments about the Ladies Conference.
ReplyDeleteSis Kathi ain't no different than Michael. He is her husband & she is operating under the same spirit he is. It can't be any other way.
You have to pay to play it their kingdom. And you pay in more ways than one. And in their kingdom, the gospel ain't free. Then again I suppose they expect the poor folks to exercise more faith & seed giving to come up with the cash for the conferences they hold. And it's just too darn bad about all those needing deliverance, cause they gonna have to pay to get it or just forget about.
Ain't no love in that folks & I guess they select which prophecies apply to them. Apparently it's only about money coming to them & not about true deliverance & the Word going out from them when there ain't no dollars coming to them.
It amazes me that anybody still attends that house of spiritual ill repute. It is at least a testament to the unending mercy & grace of God, cause if I was God, I'd of burned it up & shut it down along time ago!!
Again and unfortunately again, there is no scriptural basis for 99% of what he posts on FB. Half the time the spelling is not even right but that is actually on purpose.
ReplyDeleteI do know a scripture though that he may want to consider re love that is ACTUALLY in the Bible.
THEY (the world) will know that you are my disciples by your demonstration of love toward one another.
There is also a few good scriptures re the FRUIT of a Pastor / Overseer. One of them is not your amazing ability to SCATTER and SLANDER those with whom you have been entrusted to under shepherd. MP has been bearing that fruit for a lot of years.
Again, you can fall on the Rock willfully and with humility or the Rock will fall on you and that is never the best option in my experience.
If we HUMBLE ourselves before the Lord HE will lift us up. MP, again, just humble yourself. I think you would be overwhelmed by the amount of forgiveness you,RP,DT, and the rest of the gang would receive if you just humbled yourself.
This is where it gets ironic - because... the Pharisees were the "religious" folk; the ones in headship. Does this mean if the outsider no bodies enrage the headship (because of loving), then they are loving like Jesus?
ReplyDeleteIs this blog a Pharisee or a Jesus...
Jezebel or Elijah...
Ishmael or Captain Ahab - wait - o - my bad.
Oh my Miss Penny. You are something aren't you.
ReplyDeleteI love it. You call it in your own unique way as you see it.
I guess we have outraged them in love:)
James 3:16 sums it up regarding the spirit of confusion over this leadership:
ReplyDeleteFor where jealousy and SELFISH AMBITION are, there is CONFUSION and every evil deed.
I fear that this blog is Captain Ahab's white whale... ;-)
ReplyDeletePenny & Others,
ReplyDeleteWe are just telling like it is & sometimes you need a white whale to smack you upside the head to let you know something is terribly wrong in your life.
I am thankful for this blog author who has allowed us to voice our experiences & help others caught up in the confusion called Cornerstone.
Nice quote & comment from James 3:16. And we all know that God is not the author of confusion!
There was a time when the Spirit of God filled CC. During that time, it was impossible to get a seat in the first five rows without arriving 45 minutes early. We actually had first service people saving their seats for us so we didn't get stuck in the back. That is evidence of a true desire to worship and be in the presence of the Holy Spirit. Alas, one might notice now that it is the BACK that fills up first. ITS A SIGN...GOD HAS LEFT THE BUILDING.
ReplyDeleteWe have left, too; have experienced deep devastation, and still haven't found a church to call home and feel safe in. Yes, we are also dealing with the effects of massive indoctrination, manipulation and deceit. I think it will be a long time before we are able to trust again. MP was amazing; but when you cease to be good, you can no longer be great. Why would this man refuse to humble himself and watch what GOD can do? The process of undoing the damage cause by cult principles is daunting. We feel foolish for allowing ourselves to be enticed into trusting, believing and spouting the doctrines that originated from the MP/RP spin doctors. For the sake of independent wealth. I have noticed on previous posts that there is mention of Australia-houses-church. I have heard that they will abandon the ship they've sunk within three years. Those still attending are funding the destination and departure. It is really sad. I have defended him completely only to find that we've been deceived all along. There is life after CC; but I guess we must walk in the wilderness for a while before we get there ( being led by God alone). A place of healing and restoration. Bitter waters of Mara that eliminate the parasites within (that came from the food we ate in Egypt). I guess that is more revelation than I was expecting concerning my once beloved pastor and church. Michael; we still love you; we just don't believe in you any more and we don't hear the voice of God in your message. No annointing, no revelation, no truth and certainly no Spirit. Independent wealth was the wrong choice; you cannot serve God and mammon. It is painful to see that you, of all people, have succumbed to the seduction of greed. Are you now, in truth, the spirit of the wolf?
AMEN Anonymous^:
ReplyDeleteVery well said.. not much to add! Thank you for sharing your insightful comment. And keep walking this wilderness out… God WILL RESTORE the Trust and there will be GREAT LIBERTY in a place of FREEDOM for your family. It's better for us to acknowledge our vulnerability and weaknesses... and allow God to heal them before we get involved somewhere for the sake of affirmation. You’re doing a great job! May God continue to Bless your Journey Friend!
God CAN and always desires TO change any impossible situation. But how can God change “it”, when we won’t allow “it” to leave our hands. If only we would set aside our PRIDE and RISK what may come, by letting go. When we don’t TRUST Him with the consequences thereof, we go to the grave with all the things we never surrendered to Him.
@ Anonymous Feb.27 2:54 PM,
ReplyDeleteAh yes, I remember those days of having to have seats saved to be near the front or to get a seat on the floor at all.
Those were the sweet days, the pure days of worship, but as you said, no more.
It is all about manipulation & as Leroy the Guitar Player said in a different post, it's about Gatekeeper preaching to keep the gate guarded & the agenda protected so the sheep won't flee.
Yes, it is too bad that Michael won't humble himself. But as Leroy also said, those of us who have charged the gate & left are FREE. We have seen the agenda for what it is & will no longer serve under it or be swayed by it.
We can no longer be manipulated by those who try to protect the agenda because we are free & it is an awesome feeling to be truly free.
So Anonymous, you will feel better over time once you sort through all of this & stop being so hard on yourself, as if there was something wrong with you. There was nothing wrong with you. You like all of us had a sincere heart for God & why would you ever think that a man of God who has such a gift for preaching would deceive & manipulate you?? He is the one who is going to have a whole lot of lost & scattered sheep he will have to account for to almighty God one day.
But then again, I am sure he has theology to excuse that to & say God doesn't keep score & there is no big book that keeps record of all of your sins & so on. Just like he doesn't believe in the Rapture & God wouldn't do such a thing & have cars crashing & all kinds of things like that happening. That is just doom & gloom theology. After all, we are going to take dominion & hand the kingdom over to God. Find that chapter & verse. Better read 1 Cor. 15:24. Mike's theology on that is Kingdom Now or Dominion Theology.
The Rapture is the chrisitan's hope. It is what we have that is uniquely ours as christians & it will keep us from the coming wrath & tribulation on earth.
Old Mikey, he is so subtle & tries to be funny with his crooked theology about charts & graphs & all of that end time nonsense. He better take a look around & read the Bible. There is nothing about us ruling & reigning & taking authority over all evil & amassing the wealth of the wicked. That is fairy tale over the rainbow stuff because it makes people feel good & powerful. And it brings in good offerings.
Anonymous Feb. 27, keep reading the blog & commenting. It helps. We will help you if you need it. It is rough leaving the Stone & sends you for a loop at first. You find yourself experiencing the stages of grief. And to detox from the wrong theology, you need to talk to christians outside of the camp of CStone. Read some of the books suggested at the side of this blog.
Don't worry so much about finding a church right away - find yourself first. Give yourself time. Love yourself & don't beat yourself up for the what ifs, if onlys, would of, could of, should ofs. It does no good. Ask God for wisdom, cry out to Him & forgive, that's the hard part because of the anger & hurt. It takes time. You will be glad you are free eventually. There is a lot to undo & shame on Michael for not caring about how he has scattered the sheep.
God's peace & comfort be yours. Keep reading & posting. It is healthy & freeing.
What you now witness in the natural kingdoms will soon manifest in the spiritual kingdom. I will not be mocked any longer by those who have lorded over my children. In this hour, I am bringing the mighty down and raising up those who have my heart toward my people. This will not be a reformation it will be a revolution where my children who have been financially raped by these self proclaimed prophets will disengage from the controlling spirit and reclaim their relationship with me alone.
ReplyDeleteKingdoms will fall in a day that took years to build with earthly wisdom and cunning deceit as they have led the people away from ME and enticed them to follow MAMMON.
They will try to protect their carnal kingdoms with manipulative words but I will enlighten the eyes of my children to discern their tactics and empower them to detach themselves from the Jezebelic stronghold.
Do not fear, you are not alone, like in the days of Elijah, I had many others who were being assembled for my own purposes outside of the camp. Do not be intimidated by their words or threats. I am the Lord, your Lord, your covering and protection, so lean on me ALONE as you transition out of bondage and into the freedom that I alone provided for you by my Grace and Mercy.
Again, I will not be mocked, what these false prophets have prophesied has not come from my lips, do not listen to them. The time has come for them to reap what they have sown.
They have sowed false hopes to your minds for years for material gain and selfish ambition, but they will reap soon by my hand alone.
I love them and I will chasten them. I have given them seasons of warning. I have sent people to them but they would not listen and repent. I have been long suffering and merciful to them but their pride will cause their fall.
They will be given over to the media one by one to expose their evil works and lies.
It is not the enemy that has set these things in motion, it is I says the Lord. Too many of my sheep have been scattered and abused in my name. I have been falsely represented by the false prophets but know this, I am getting ready to give my people a Damascus experience.
You will know me and experience me like never before says the Lord, but you must heed my voice in this season and my leading and not that of a man. You will not be able to find your way with your natural eyes for a season, you will now learn to see in the darkness by my Spirit and I will lead you out. I will bring another by your side to aid your transition as two is better than one and a friend is born for the day of adversity. Loose yourself NOW from the lies and be free in my name says the Lord.
Not sure how to post using anything other than Anon - soon I'll figure that out ...
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I left cstone a few years ago, and I have to admit that I am still struggling a bit, still trying to find a church home. We were sold on Cstone and committed 20+ years there. We live west of Toledo, out of Lucas county and haven't found a place that fits us. We really don't want to travel long distances again but would truly love to worship with our neighbors and friends. There are many Christians living around us, and lots of denominational churches. I never thought I would find myself back in a denomination but I am almost at that point. I have children and can't bear to think of languishing any longer and not be part of a local body of Christ. Anyone else struggle with this? Anyone else have concerns that while you are working through the effects of a controlling church you are leaving your children open to growing up without a good church experience?
The most important aspect of a child's upbringing is firstly the home environment. If you are providing your children a safe and God fearing environment then that is the most important thing right now. You have the ability to teach your children the Bible. I would focus on this until you feel like you have found a new community. Don't force it or rush it. Wait on Him to lead you to the right pasture.
ReplyDeleteRegarding denominations, Cornerstone is a denomination. The ICCC is a Catholic based denomination. A non denominational Church like Cornerstone is a "denomination". Cornerstone is a dictatorship denomination.
Don't focus on that, focus on finding a place that actually teaches the Bible in context and where the leaders are accountable and the books are open to the donors so that everything is transparent. You will know it when you feel it.
There is a reason why no one is allowed to see the financials at these kingdom based churches. Now what do you think that reason would be? If there is nothing to hide then open the books....
eyeswideopen,
ReplyDeleteThank you for that awesome encouraging word from the Lord. It will help many who are yet struggling with the decision to leave as well as those who have left & continue to struggle like Anonymous Mar. 1, 1:43 AM.
We must pray for them that they find peace & allow themselves to be still & know that He is God & that they don't have to rush into a new church. It is ok to reacquaint themselves with God & His Word for a season or 2.
Thank You again for the powerful word you shared. I miss that & it is so refreshing. I wish that all of us on this blog could get together & hug each other & support one another in person & maybe even start a bible study group together somewhere. That would be an awesome thing.
In the meantime, peace & blessings to all of you.
Good comment Anonymous Mar. 2, 12:51 PM. If they have nothing to hide, then why not open the books???
ReplyDeleteEvery other church in town does. It is the least they can do out of respect for tithing members.
I guess it is just another aspect of accountability they want nothing to do with.
Amazing that so many blind sheep see no problem with Michael & RP never revealing a financial statement. I would think they would want to show us how charitable they are & what wise stewards they are of God's money.
OOPS, I forgot, they aren't any of those things, so they have nothing to show anyone. They are merely mammon mongerers who sow false teachings to heap filthy lucre upon themselves.
The truth will be made known about their evil deeds.
A pattern with these charlatans is that they will milk a local community as much as they can and then when the offerings are down, or they are losing members, or there are sites that go up like this one with 62K views, they look for greener pastures, better economies, and new sheep to sheer...
ReplyDeleteBe forewarned. Larry Lea, Benny Hinn, Carlton Pearson, Barry Cook, Roberts LIARdon, TD Jakes, and many other have done this when they got exposed by the media or they felt they could not grow any more. Remember, these guys are driven by bigger and better and more more more and when that isn't manifesting...time to look for another city.
And the devastation to the sheep when they are abandoned is a horrific experience as they are betrayed for $$$$$$$$$. Sounds like a Judas spirit...
They guise it under "this city does not receive me so God is moving me somewhere else".
They hedge this risk by "covering" or skimming off the offerings of other gullible and needy pastors who are trying to get their profit center off the ground. The supposed big wig Bishop comes into a church and it draws new members which equals more money.
These "network" churches are just extra profit centers, easy money for these guys. It's what's called franchising in the business world.
They target third world people because they are easy to prey on and make a bunch of false promises to...it's easy money. Mexico is an example and so if Africa. They tell them if they give and sow that they will have financial prosperity.....how has that been working?
How about you take care of your own family first? How about the people under your care right there?
The “Charismatic" movement has risen from humble, yet powerful beginnings and grown into a spoiled body of believers who run around demanding God “get on board” with what we decree.
ReplyDeleteAll the while, the latest and greatest Charismatic Collars keep the system going by feeding the masses with sermons that teach us that GAIN is Godliness.
But 1 Tim. 6:6 says that – “Godliness with CONTENTMENT is great gain.” Jesus is not our personal “Jeanie” in case someone forgot to tell you... And throwing money into an offering plate and labeling it “SEED” is not going to fix a problem that your own lack of discipline, integrity, and flesh got you into!
As Dr. Phil would say to the CURRENT LEADERS of these False Teachings: “How’s that workin’ for ya?” *News Flash* -It’s not.
And while we're busy "funding the gospel" thru TBN and Wendy and Rory Alec....America is sick and time is ticking away.
It's time for the tables to be thrown over and the money changers to be driven out! May the real CHURCH of Jesus Christ please stand up! Maybe we need to get Eminem to do a commercial for us! lol
S.T.I.L,
ReplyDeletePreachi it!! A hundred times yes & Amen!!
It is time for the tables to be overthrown & the money mongerers thrown out.
Our country is in a time of need now more than ever & these supposed men of God are raping the people as much as the contolling gov't is.
They cry more, more & it is never enough. They have no contentment with great gain.
Furthermore, where is their spectacular faith if they always have to plead for more with fancy promises attached? Real faith wouldn't plead & beg & promise or guilt people into giving. It would quietly believe that God is El Shaddai the all sufficient One, Jehovah Jirah, their provider. Apparently they don't have faith or know that side of God.
What they have is the financial kingdom they have built for themselves & really they have no need of God. They have no need for faith. It's all illusion. They have all they need while the poor people in this town keep getting poorer & this "rich & powerful" church does nothing to soothe the pain of those who have lost jobs or are going to have their wages & benefits seriously cut when Senate Bill 5 passes into law. I pray that it does not, but nonetheless what will the great & mighty Cornerstone do for this lost, dying, & starving city, besides give token gifts to MLK Kitchen of the Poor & Mom's House & Crisis Pregnancy Center at Christmas?
To take the last "seed" dollars that a family has to sow & tell them they can call it their last $20 or give it to God in faith is shameless.
Wake up people - God doesn't need your seed to bless you. Someone in that house who is actually hearing form God and has the means to bless someone in need should do it.
And furthermore, shame on the headship @ CStone who look down on people in need as moochers or get one over ons. Well, if they just had more faith or sowed more, God would meet their need.
What a wicked thing to say to people in need in these tough economic times while the headship drive their fancy cars, travel all over the world, wear their fancy clothes & jewelry, live in lavish homes, spend top $$$ on the church building, all in the name & appearance of being blessed.
What more can be said, except wake up blind sheeple. These men are snakes & vipers preaching the gospel for gain.
My husband and I left CS approx. 7 months ago. We left because God told us to leave. We were also seeing things that we did not settle in our hearts and spirit. It was a very difficult move because of our involvement, friends, etc. but we were being obedient and trusting God.
ReplyDeleteSome time after we left, we ran across this blog. It was a blessing because it confirmed that we were not "offended" or not hearing from God or crazy for leaving.
At the time, I was experiencing some feelings but tried to forgive and move on. We found a church that we liked and seemed biblically sound. After some time, I stopped coming on this site so I wouldn't "feed" my feelings (just trying to do what I could to get over it). I did okay for awhile, became involved in ministry at the new church, made a lot of friends and was actually excited about my path.
But NOW, I have all of these emotions I can't contain...I am so hurt that the people I trusted, cared about, sowed into through ministry and tithing and time, did not care about me. They had their own agenda. I was betrayed - again.
I spent the last few weeks crying a lot. I don't know what or who to believe. I feel like I based some important life decisions on false doctrine and manipulative words. I want to just know GOD and I don't want to hear from any man. Yet, I can't hear God right now...He seems far away. It's difficult to read the bible because I don't know the correct interpretation. I realize the Holy Spirit will give me the truth but at this moment, it isn't happening. I feel shut down spiritually.
I do understand process and I'm actually okay with all of this. I believe, most of the time anyway, that I'll get through it. However, people are telling me to not be a victim. They're talking about mindset/thoughts, which I understand, but the bottom line is I have been victimized. I did not choose this and I'm not choosing these emotions I'm feeling! There has been on-going abuse (physical, emotional, verbal, sexual) throughout my entire life which I' sure contributes to how I feel today. I certainly WISH I could just block these feelings out and move on but when I attempted that, they resurfaced...and at a deeper level. I will not stay stuck...I will focus on the things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy. But I'm in a place right now. Can someone please explain to people who think we choose to have this "victim" mentality that this is real. We aren't choosing it, we aren't all drama (I HATE drama!!)
To Struggling…Still:
ReplyDeleteIt’s easier for people to simply tell others “Don’t allow yourself to be victimized”, than to actually come along side them and HELP THEM to walk it out….
Not to minimize your pain friend. But, what you are going through is normal for most who were long-time, committed members. As much as it is a “spiritual journey” of sorting through doctrine, it is one of an emotional journey as well. I would venture to say that just as much (if not more) emotional and mental damage is inflicted in these situations.
------
After you obeyed God and left Cornerstone, you were probably energized by the new excitement of following God’s will for you life. Of course! You found a new church and started to enjoy the refreshing experience of a healthier church structure. You made new friends, everything seems fine initially. Several months have passed, and so you’ve had some time to take everything in and process it. It is NOW that you begin to fully come to terms with the reality of “what happened”. This is a sign that you have entered into the Acceptance Phase of your transition.
The “Acceptance Phase” (as I call it) is one of relief and disappointment, all at one time.
On one hand-- Your decision to leave Cornerstone is solidified. You begin closing in on your season of disillusionment -because you have begun to IDENTIFY EXACTLY what was “wrong” with Cornerstone and begin pin-pointing the specifics of the Spiritual Abuse you suffered. It is liberating indeed to start making “sense” of things.
On the other hand…however
The combination of:
●Coming to terms with the reality of “what happened”
AND
●Then realizing how your church experience “should have been” or “could have been”
The reality of the (2) is painful because you loved Michael and Cornerstone… and IT didn’t have to end this way. You feel robbed and cheated as a result. And as you said, you made a lot of decisions while you were following them.
Initially, "discovery and acceptance" is liberating… but it quite painful. It also makes you angry when you realize that the ones you loved, didn’t love you the same in return… as you were only valued as much as you gave to their agenda. YOU however gave without expecting anything in return. And the dynamics of what you "thought" were solid relationships, in the end is shattered --as you find out that things were not "as presented".
It’s kind of like growing up in as an abusive child. Then when you have children and create a healthy home for them… it is only THEN that you can fully comprehend what YOU missed out on.
Friend, we all have had to forgive them... but we also "forgive" ourselves as well. As much is it is necessary to hold ourselves accountable, remember to be patient with yourself in the process.
Hopefully this helped...God Bless!
Transitioning out of this sort of co-dependent environment happens in stages. STIL, is correct above. The timing of those stages differs by the individual and how deep the roots went.
ReplyDeleteI have been out for a number of years and from time to time a repressed emotion or feeling springs up that I have to allow God to heal. Forgiveness is a process. We can say we forgive someone but that is the starting point. It takes time to clean out the strongholds and God seldom does it all in one stage or we would lose it, literally. If you watch the movie the matrix, there are similar parallels. We were living in a sub culture with wrong ways of thinking that need to be purged and replaced with the Truth.
So embrace each stage and know that there are two certainties through this process:
1) God Loves you and knows what you need at each stage. Crying is needed sometimes. It's OK. He will never leave you or forsake you. I spent many days in prayer yelling and screaming at God regarding the why's. It wasn't a religious prayer I can tell you that but it was when I had my best breakthroughs. Being real with HIM and my feelings.
2) HE is in you and speaking to you even when you may not be able to decipher HIS VOICE. Eventually you will once you purge the voice of MP. Be patient. When you start hearing it, it will be so clear it will blow your mind. The freedom that you have in Christ Alone will turn those tears of sorrow to tears of joy.
I tell people all the time that I and EVERYONE that I know who left C stone say it was the BEST DECISION they ever made in their lives.
Congrats on your journey out.
Thank you both. :)
ReplyDeleteSTRUGGLING STILL
ReplyDeleteBeing a "victim" is a mindset - you were victimized, but you have the choice as to stay a victim or cross over into survivor. What does THAT mean? Well... maybe not what the average Joe might think. Believe me - in my recovery group we say: RECOVERY ISN'T FOR WIMPS.
Your feelings are your feelings. If you DIDN'T have them - that would be a red flag. This is a major loss for you. You will mourn, cry, relive, obsess, feel relief, feel lonely, etc etc etc. All the loss you have ever experienced will resurface. It is a TRIP. You will probably feel everything under the sun.
Our emotions are signposts to where we are in our journeys. Keep walking. Stop and rest when you need to. Keep talking, JOURNAL - DRAW - seek professional help - seek a recovery partner - beat up a pillow - all of the above - some of the above... you will find what works.
You will find that we have all been there. Some of us have made it out, some of us are still working it out, some of us are just standing still saying "WTF???" -- in other words: you are NOT alone. Yes, it is a process - bless your feelings. Bless your tears for they are a RELEASE. This is healthy - although it does not feel like it.
Put a strong support network in place - and know that you will get through this. I promise. If I can walk out crap after years of familial abuse - anyone can. Remember - I'm the one who is CRAZY *snort*.
Thanks Penny. You're right, "being a victim" is a mindset...with a process attached. I know my feelings are valid, emotions are healing. I just get tripped up with some of the perceptions out there. People think they know but they don't know unless they've been through it..just like everything else in life.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to ask God to place a person in my life who does understand...someone I can talk to one-on-one when I need to. Otherwise, it's easy to get out of sorts.
I'm very thankful for this site.
Struggling...
ReplyDeleteYou said, "I just get tripped up with some of the perceptions out there."
That was actually one of the hardest things for me to let go of. I am not one who normally gives a rip about what anyone else thinks -- however... I do have this thing about people pointing fingers when they themselves haven't a CLUE.
I had to come to the point that ignorance is simply ignorance. That not everyone is going to be on my side - REGARDLESS... and, as a very wise woman once taught me: it ain't my business what other people think of me.
You're a survivor. Carry on... :)
I have to say thank you, everyone, for this blog. There is more compassion and wisdom posted here than has been expressed from the pulpit in a decade. I notice the various stages of "detox". Penny is funny; I hope to someday be able to express what I feel in a humorous way; laughter is good.. Thanks penny. I have read posts from Leroy the infamous guitar player..I think your calling is in writing also..You ooze with wisdom. Thank you for your bravery and willingness to share unashamedly. Maybe soon I will be fearless enough to "out" myself using my name.
ReplyDeleteThis blog has helped to congeal a lot of feelings into one area. Much of the abuse I have felt was scattered throughout my life and touched every aspect of it in a negative way. Now I am able to centralize it much better. I have thought for a very long time that something was wrong with me; I was a "rat-heathen" for leaving CStone (or rather..Cornerstone Catholic). I would rush home and dive into the Word. It wasn't being preached anymore, that much has been obvious. Even knowing that, I struggled with the idea that MP wouldn't do that, surely, he wouldn't lead the congregation with false teachings and doctrines of the devil. Could this little man actually pull it off; the answer is a resounding, yes.. for money it appears he will do just about anything including associating with others who do the same. Big names, Big money. I was sad for a long time, I think I have entered a new "level". Disgusted. I hope my next level is Penny's level..I am tired of giving any more attention to a little man with a insatiable appetite for money; a man who would mock the Word of God to get it. How could anyone trust a man who would stoop that low. I'd be afraid to attend there. as someone else said...God has left the building... as long as there is open adultery, drunkenness,false teachings, false prophesy, money changers, pride, arrogance (just to name a few) I have a feeling God is not coming back. MP may have a redemptive quality, but pride rises up to protect an ego, and that one is huge.. Still, it would be great to get back to the days when the seats filled up from the front and the Holy Spirit moved and the Word of God was preached..that was a long time ago.. Thank you blog author, you have extended grace and wisdom and allowed others to stretch out their hand to others..I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. God bless you all.
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to let you know that we read your comment. Thank you!
I really liked what you said about being able to "congeal a lot of your feelings" into one area. Sometimes we skip over our feelings and don't take the time to address them. The ability to be "real" with yourself is such a vital part of coming out of this a HEALTHIER person. Taking the time for this also helps us to NOT take the same "structure" to another church. We all have to take time to "change our filters".
Again thanks and great comment. God Bless!
There seems to be a huge misconception (or maybe it is a deliberate diversion). I have been hearing a lot about how people need to walk in "grace" and "forgiveness". What meaneth this?? RP and DT don't need my forgiveness; they didn't (allegedly) cheat on me. What they do in their private lives and how it affects their families is none of my business. Truth is, I don't care. It is unfortunate for those who are hurt by their alleged actions, but I am not affected by their alleged unfaithfulness and immorality. So, forgiveness is not something that is required of me throughout their drama. As far as "Grace" is concerned..I think grace abounds. I have read the blogs..Grace is there. I think that "grace and forgiveness" has become the diversionary mantra used to keep the focus off of a basic foundational truth.. Here it is... All must be held accountable for their actions and responsible for them.. I taught my children this very foundational truth. Regardless of how much I love my children, they were taught accountability and responsibility and sometimes the lesson went down hard.. Newtons rule..for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I think I can speak for most people when I say that the biggest problem we are having with the issues at hand is NOT that there is sin and perversion and unfaithfulness going on within the church; but that it is going on at the leadership level and those in error continue to be on the platform. Someone, please tell Michael it is not about grace and forgiveness..it is about accountability and responsibility. Is it really too much to expect for RP and DT take some time to get their affairs (no pun intended) in order before they return to the platform. I mean, really? Robert should not EVEN have a microphone.. To stand there and justify his life from the pulpit; if he can't be asked to step off the platform for a while, at least make him keep his mouth shut. It is NOT about grace and forgiveness, we are abounding in it, obviously, most of us stayed there long after it was time to go. And GRACE?? when did grace become a license to continue in error? I always likened grace to the father of the Prodigal Son..WHEN the son turned from his wicked ways and immorality and came back home..his father wrapped him in his cloak of "grace" to cover him. True repentence comes on the heels of remorse and shame; and with it comes "Grace". Grace doesn't absolve continued behavior. (Although...I am seeing some catholic tendencies lately. ) So, this isn't about Grace. Are we to understand that Grace now means "acceptance". There is blatant sinfulness oozing from the pulpit and the congregation is supposed to "accept" it; and that is called "Grace"? So, when "we" don't "accept" it we are walking in unforgiveness and lacking grace? I am pretty sure God was clear about His thoughts on this matter. The toleration toward sinfulness on the platform and in leadership tells me that the congregation of CC has laid down their Bibles and follow after a man. I pray daily that God will turn the heart and mind of MP back to Him.. Yes, MP is doing good things..a lot of us are; and Yes, MP has a gift and there was a time that he was even anointed; but the Bible says you cannot serve God and money; MP used to crack down on the congregation for all kinds of things. We need THAT pastor back. Please take off that stupid collar and give the cross to a rapper and lets get down to business.. You can do it Michael and it would be great, just consult the Bible first..
ReplyDelete