“FEAR NOT”…
Realistically, some of us ARE going to face very difficult challenges in 2011…perhaps like never before in your lifetime. But as with every “great” challenge that presents itself, even GREATER blessings of revelation and deliverance WILL follow. For He goes ahead of you and prepares a place for you! When you OBEY HIM despite the cost, the BLESSING of God itself goes ahead of you and overtakes you. For you will not and can not FAIL, if you keep ahold of His unchanging hand.
Deut. 28: 1-2-- “And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt HEARKEN diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to OBSERVE and TO DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and OVERTAKE THEE, IF THOU SHALT HEARKEN unto the voice of the LORD thy God.”
I believe what the Lord is saying is this:
You WILL certainly have the opportunity to become FEARFUL when CHANGE comes knocking on your door in 2011. But YOU have the power to choose. YOU have the choice to either invite "Fear" in and entertain him…or simply close the door and send him back to where he came from! Remember, it's the Valley of the "Shadow" of death. The Appearance of what evil "might do" is actually what's intimidating.
You must say within yourself: No matter how I feel, no matter how my heart breaks and my mind questions the uncertainty of this change...my life will go on. And although I may not know ALL the answers to this puzzle right now, what I DO KNOW is this:
"The Lord, He is strong and mighty. He is with me…He will never forsake me. He would never lead me into a wilderness of change, had is not been necessary for my good. Nothing can hurt me. And this “change” will not destroy my faith, but only make it stronger as I move forward to live-out the plans of God over my life. So, I will embrace the changes that come my way –because they are necessary. For the Lord is an EVER present help in time of need. It is well with my soul because I FEAR ONLY the LORD and His Word.”--------------------------------
Friends, we certainly never expected the numbers of people who have visited and contributed to the blog during the past 3 mos. Thanks again for your support; as it appears MANY are in need of it, as they seek to move forward in life after Cornerstone. We all wish we could just wave that "magic wand" and fix everything overnight. How wonderful if every trouble could simply be resolved that quickly, right?! BUT rest assured --Answers for your PERSONAL JOURNEY WILL come..it’s just a process. You see...TRUTH unfolds much like a beautiful rose. It’s layer after layer.
With that being said, I’d like to focus our attention on those who are seeking support in their transition.
So, to those who have been gone from Cornerstone for about a year or more now: Would you please share one or two nuggets of Wisdom that helped YOU, when YOU initially made the Exodus out? What revelation did the Lord show you that brought much clarity and comfort to you?
So… “What helped YOU the most, when you first left?”
When you first leave a cult like organization there are many fears, phobias and indoctrinations that need to be processed. The first thing I experienced,was a real word in my heart that said I am (Jesus) your spiritual covering not a man.
ReplyDeleteI was so fearful when I left because of the teaching that I was opening myself and my family to spiritual attack. That was not the case. In essence I moved them out from under spiritual abuse.
I then received help from the Holy Spirit, to genuinely pray for the leadership and believe that God would help them just as He had helped me in my times of trouble. This removed the bitterness I was battling with in my heart. I was hurt and bitter, as much at myself for allowing this treatment of domination and manipulation to have gone on for so long. I wanted God to show them what they needed to do(repent). Instead God took me by the hand not them by the ear. I learned an awesome principle. My healing came when I no longer cared what they thought or did. This broke MP's control over my life for good. Once the final step was taken the peace of God has ruled my heart, not fear or man's opinions. The wonderful guidance and love of Jesus.
I hope everyone of you find that peace in this season.
Happy 2011 - new beginnings, new life, new hope & renewed strength in my Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. My sustaining strength, my one and only unchanging foundation of truth.
ReplyDeleteI guess you could say that after my initial shell shock of leaving a place I never thought I would leave lessened, I found myself drawn ever closer to a renewed 1st love relationship with Jesus & the Word. I cried out & searched for real truth & answers & that God would allow me to seek Him & Him alone for the answer through His Word & time w/Him.
Although, I must say many of my answers did come from converstions with others - questioning, seeking, searching & being open to a new way of looking at things in light of God's Word, rather than through the narrwowed doctrine I had been living under for some 20 years.
I cracked my Bible open & searched out things in light of all that I had been questioning: Headship, covering, tithing, levels, anointings & protocols, end time kingdom doctrine & kingdom dominion living doctrine among others.
I found that there were some things that did not align with God's Word, but those things we could maybe agree to disagree on & it would not affect my relationship with God one way or another.
Yet there were others such a set man or church as your covering only & hearing spiritual things only through that covering. Those could & did ultimately affect my relationship with God because subtly over time my eyes had been diverted to a man & a church as a place that held God's glory, presence & anointing. I began to lose sight of the fact the God's presence resided w/in me & I could pray & praise Him for myself & experience that on my own.
Yes, "corporate anointings & worship" are a whole other experience in & of themselves, but those can become hyped up emotionally charged things fed by great music & the energy of a crowd. That is a whole mind control thing in & of itself & for another time. But could I really experience that on my own? Yes & Amen apart from MP & the Stone becasue the Spirit resides in me, little ol' me, I could come into His presence w/my own heart of worship.
Even more than that though, I began to realize that there are churches that do exist where the "headship" is not off limits & does not hold all of the answers & protocol isn't the most important thing in the house.
So, what really helped me was getting back to the basics of God's Word for myself & letting go of idolizing a man & a church as the most anointed person/place in town despite the "anointed" ones contradictory lifestyles apart from the "anointed" place. What good is all of that powerful anointing if it doesn't follow you away from a place?????
There is so much more but that is a good place to start. It is a process as the author said - there is much to undo & relearn outside of a such a strict authoritarian style of leadership which to me is much like the Catholic Church I grew up in. Kind of scary to see parallels to that, but once you leave & your eyes begin to see things apart from false doctrines & abusive leadership, it's amazing how free you become.
Peace & new beginnings to all.
The thing that helped me the most was that God was enlightening not only myself, but a handful of people that I fellowshipped with to the very same Truths at the same time.
ReplyDeleteIt really helped to solidify and confirm what we were being shown regarding certain doctrines and teachings that were contrary to scripture that was taught by Michael.
We would get together in a home setting and discuss what we were being shown by the Holy Spirit and it was pretty much the same for everyone.
After we left the Stone, we were in no hurry or rush to go find another Church to join or attend. (This may not be the same for everyone but I am sharing what worked for us).
We got together frequently to break bread, pray, fellowship, and encourage one another regarding the journey out of Cornerstone.
So having people to confide in that were on the same path out was very helpful. Don’t isolate yourself, and be sure to give yourself time to heal and strip off the spirit of Michael and not just the teachings.
Remember, you get the teachings and you get the spirit of that man.
The other thing that was helpful was a handful of books that we started to read that really brought clarity regarding everything we already had in Christ that we thought we could only get through obedience and submission to Michaels teachings. These books are as follows and you can find them at Amazon:
Who is your Covering by Frank Viola
Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola
Beyond Tithes and Offerings by Mitchell T Webb
This one I could not put down and it really helped with the pain and disillusionment we were all experiencing: Cages of Pain: Healing for disillusioned Christians by Gordon Aeschliman
I will tell you this, everyone’s journey out is going to be different based upon the level of co-dependency. Much of what is going on here is co-dependency and there are plenty of books on this subject that can help you break free from this so you don’t repeat this disease somewhere else with someone or something else later in your life.
We all left years ago and all of us will tell you it was the best decision we ever made. None of us wavered when God showed us what was going on re the false teachings. Within a few weeks we all left (some of us leaders in the Church) and I have nightmares thinking about what if we would have stayed.
All of us are doing very well and thank God every day that we got out when we did. Be encouraged to know that God will cover you through the process. He knows the pain and knows that the journey out in the short term can be a bit unstable emotionally. Fear not and be sure to journal because you are about to really experience concentrated revelation of everything you already have in Christ.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that I had to deal with was allowing myself to be human and acknowledge that my emotions were normal and actually OK. (as long as I didn't set up residence there :) It's normal to be angry & hurt. Leaving is an emotional process. Even though you are gone physically, when you have invested your life somewhere for so long, the emotional ties will not be cut overnight. You are not going to arrive at a place of forgiveness immediately. I would have to take my anger, hurt & bitterness to God and ask him to help me to forgive. He would. I would move forward, then find after awhile, that I needed to do it all over again. But each time I would take it to God, when it came back, it was less consuming. I have learned that there are definite emotional patterns that EVERYONE goes through when they are recovering from spiritual abuse. What you are going through is NORMAL and not unique unto you.
Another aspect I had to deal with was letting Him strip me of everything I had ever learned. I have to liken it to tearing down a house. What I was left with was the foundation of Jesus is the son of God and my savior. Everything after that had to be built back by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. Somethings that I had learned were truth and they were easy to erect back into place. But a lot of "doctrine" had to completely be scrapped so God could re-teach me according to His truth. I have learned that everyone has "filters" (personal experiences in life, emotions, learned thoughts and behaviors, etc.) that affect the way we view God and His word. (This is why you can have two people read the same scripture and come away with two different meanings and connotations.) We have to allow God to remove our filters so we can receive His truth without preconceived notions or ideas of what He is trying to say.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteIt really, really helped me to find an online group that helps people who have been spiritually abused and/or feel called to leave the physical "church" to embrace a walk with God personally, learning to abide in Him. Sort of like the detox of religion Paul went through after the Damascus road experience. Not to say that you abandon fellowship with other believers. But for me, I wasn't ready to jump back into a physical church immediately. Honestly, my trust in any type of headship other than Jesus has been totally shattered. I know that when the time is right God will put me where He wants me, but for now I am able to relax and learn how to "live loved." For me personally, that has been a huge struggle simply because I have always struggled with my self-worth and not being "acceptable" to God. And as you can imagine, my feelings of unworthiness were further ingrained into me at Cstone.
I guess what I'm saying is don't feel pressured to jump into another body of believers immediately. Take the time to search for and develop a closer relationship with God. Let Him minister to you what you need personally. You can't help others when you are in deficit spiritually. I've seen several people leave one headship and replace it with another. Although the headship is better at being shepherds, it still is placing man over God. And it will be a longer process to get to where God wants you to be spiritually.
Part 3
ReplyDeleteLastly, I had to relearn the definition of ministry. For too long, I believed that successful ministry led you to platform ministry. You might start out small as a Spectrum helper or running the vacuum in the hallways, but being faithful would lead you to bigger, more prominent positions. Such as ministry leader or a Spectrum teacher or even a school of the bible teacher. Of course you REALLY arrived when you were brought on the platform to minister or to lead prayer, etc. What I have learned since leaving is that real ministry is being WHO YOU ARE. By being yourself and being real, it is the best ministry you can give any person God brings you into contact with. Your giftings are a part of you and flow naturally out of you. True ministry occurs when God takes your giftings, marries them with His fruit that He has grown in you and distributes it to others through human contact. God knows what He put into you since it's a reflection of a fraction of His myriad personality. He brings you into contact daily with people who need YOU to just be you being directed by the Holy Spirit.
Just my 2cents. Hope this helps.
Well where to start...first I wanted to post something earlier on the Why I left, but it was closed so I will share on both topics. I was a faithful member for 8 years. Came to know Jesus at 19 never really going to church growing up. CC was really a great place back then. MP amazed me w/his "annointing" and his "word". After serving my blood, sweat and time in Spectrum as a Team Leader I wanted to serve even more in R life. So following protocol I submit a application to do so. Well a few weeks went by and I heard nothing from anyone about when I could start. So, I approached Jeffery Smith and asked him if he had a chance to review my app he says to me..."sis, I did and I have been meaning to talk to you about that. We have noticed your Tithe and offering have really decreased." I was stunned!! It was not a caring word or statement from him. It was a word that said I have to discuss further with whoever to see if we can allow you to volunteer!! Yes I have to pay to volunteer! WOW!! I was crushed...this church that guided me through my young adult life looked at me as $$$$!! I moved to Toledo just so I wouldn't have such a long commute 2 days a week as I served!!! Little did CC know I had gotten a new job and my pay was going to be cut for a few months while I was in training! Needless to say I left shortly after. I was very very ANGRY!! This was the only church I knew, the only pastor I had ever had. It felt to me sometimes like my only family! But, God is my father and loves me all the time. That is what I hold on too. Don't get me wrong I still struggle with things concerning church and God. It still hurts to feel so taken advantage of. It is a daily task to be that Christian Women and keep that love for God alive inside me. Just this New Years I decided I am ready to give church another try. I love God woith everything in me...I WILL NOT LET MAN (MP) take that from me!!
ReplyDeleteMy prayers are with all of you.
To Be Angry & Sin Not,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all let me say that I am so sorry you had to experience that. Your heart was certainly in the right place & God will honor that.
Second of all, you have every right to be angry over that. It was not Christ-like, nor is it Biblical in any way shape or form. It is however very CStone headship style.
This is a great place to find support & genuine caring & love for we have all had experiences at the Stone that are first & foremost unbelievable to those who have never experienced them & to those who choose to remain in ignorance about the "bliss" at the Stone.
We have all felt the pain, anger & confusion that you have felt & continue to deal with. It is truly a psychological & emotional battlefield when you first leave, particularly when you have no one to talk to about it who can relate to you & assure you that you are not crazy or off or anything else that you tell yourself that was reinforced from the platform by MP & RP & others.
Please don't give up on God or church. We are here to support you & what better way to heal than to share your story - its ok, really. God understands. MP was supposed to be your shepherd watching out for your soul, not his bottom line. And the other leaders there are jsut as guilty because they know what is going on & do nothing to stop participation in it. We are the brave ones becasue we chose to step away from the abusive, bully pulpit behavior among other things exhibited by so called "pastors".
So, don't be so hard on yourself. You are detoxing & in a process of healing from abuse, period, end of story, that is what it is - spiritual abuse from those in supposed positions of authority. They suck you in, groom you so to speak, & then the hammer tactics hit.
You did nothing wrong. Even Jesus got angry with the money changers in the temple. God gave you anger for a reason, jsut don't let it make you bitter. We have all fought that. It hurts; you were betrayed like all of us felt by the very ministry you served & tithed to & that is between you & God, or at least now that's what MP is saying, that it is a "sacred" thing - your giving. Now that he or his cronies have been reading the blog, he is making his money grabbing efforts more "sacred". He knows what we have been saying about giving in secret, so he has made the whole offering thing more low key now & "sacred" (sounds so spiritual). He has even come up with the gift of generosity speel which now should be acknowledged openly, not overly so as to flaunt it, but it shouldn't be done in secret, so that others know you have that gift of generosity. He is a master at twisting things around so he doesn't lose anymore tithing members. It was becoming so blatantly obvious what he was doing, so he has to package it a bit differently.
Well, the Bible still says we are to give in secret so that our left hand doesn't know what our right hand is doing. But, he has try to make the "lower class" feel better by saying don't feel bad if you don't have the $1,000 to give, jsut give what you can - between you & God. Apparently this is some new revelation as it didn't apply in your case. Again, I am so sorry that you had to experience that.
Keep reading & if you need to, email the blog author who is willing to help you & lead you to resources & others who can help.
You will be ok, give it to God. It is a process & sometimes requires repeated times at turning over the anger & hurt. We care & send you our love & support. You have a heart that was in the right place & God sees all of your pain. He will heal you & take you all the way through this. It jsut takes time.
Our prayers are with you.
To: Be Angry and Sin not...
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your experience at and after Cornerstone. I understand your anger and frustration friend. As with all of us --you gave, and gave, and gave with the right heart until???? But sadly, the "heart" wasn't on the top of THEIR priority list. Good for you for not excusing their blatant disregard for you as a person....and not just a check number.
As far as your giving: Some will debate on whether the tithe is NT or not (which is not the focus of our forum.) But I will say, ALL financial giving should be gathered together and redistributed to those in need. The problem at Cornerstone BEGAN the very day Michael and Robert began to see the PEOPLE and the GIVING as THEIRS and not God's. Picking and choosing where to spend money…depending upon the return it would bring back. Not much spent on the prison ministry for example.
With that being said, I'm so glad to hear that you have not lost the faith! Clearly God has been healing you from the soulical wounds that were inflicted upon you at Cornerstone. Especially since you joined the church at a younger age and formed many relationships there. It's hard when you have to leave any of those relationships behind, due to no fault of your own. However, I believe God wants to bring you to a place of worship where the Pastor cares about you –personally. Shouldn’t this be the fruit of a true Pastor? This is what was reflected in Jesus Christ Himself. A true shepherd cares for the sheep, guards them, and guides them continually. He never drives them or dominates them.
Just keep walking it out sis!! God wants to bring you into a new and refreshing place in Him. I believe he will restore to you all the time you could have been pouring into those young people. You have a GREAT testimony to share –allow Him to light your fire again friend! Don't let anything hold you back!!
Everything else will work itself out AS you move forward…
My Cloud of fear lasted for a 24-48hr period, If I were posting anonymously my name would be "Re-established". Being open was the first key clearing the swirling clouds over my head.
ReplyDeleteI remembered ALL the years I had questions, but no where to ask them, now for me keeping silent was out of the question. I was spiritually carried out of that place. At the conclusion of the final service, I was scrambling tying to figure out what just happened.
I was physically nauseous, dizzy and disoriented and my wife could not stop crying. (all this was before she and I even talked about what we just heard) It was in that period 24 to 48hr period that God with the wave of his hand picked me up and began to speak to me as he did before joining CC.
The evidence of this remains on my facebook page, revelation began coming so fast and clear. This is where God also showed me My relationship with him has nothing to do with another man (church) and for me the roll of a (Natural)church has forever changed.
My shoulders came up about 6 inches when my gift began to flow. This is how God calmed my fears, by re-establishing in me, what the truth is. The truth is, I did nothing wrong, my heart was sincere towards Gog and my commitment was 110%, therefore, no need to fear.
Having God to lay confirmation gifts at my feet was the process used to defeat fear an doubt. Also I was reminded that I and my family continued to learn and grow while there was because it matters NOT where the principles of God come from, if you recognize them and adhere to them you benefit.
The air smells so much better when I realized my potential is in every breath I breathe. "The decision to obey God removed my need to sacrifice what I know to be right".
Blessings & Action in 2011
Writing is my Gift and I know it!!!!!!
As I watch online this morning, listening to DT sing about second chances, knowing this not his second chance, but his third or forth; "I'm not goin' back, moving forward," it could be my theme song.
ReplyDeleteThe choir is one third the size it was before HEAVEN ON EARTH. Choir members are dropping like flies because they know too much.
One reason I left was because I could not stomach seeing him on the platform. All last year DT canceled his classes, his commitments, even to himself (365 days of writing a song a day???) Now we know what he was busy with. I can't see him as a music minister. He makes me want to puke.
Pastor Bishop is wearing his shiny suit this morning... the one that makes the monitors flash when he moves!
ReplyDeleteYes, indeed... Saul is consulting the Witch at Endor. Brian CarnAL.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime --let's continue to walk it out with those who have left. It takes time to recover from Spiritual Abuse; especially those who have been subject to the toxic envirnoment for several years now.
So keep sharing what helped you... We are ALL "Speaking Truth in Love" friends!
For those who are interested in what a FALSE PROPHET is --Read our Article to the right on "Identifying the Fruit of...False Prophets"
ReplyDeleteThey are pulling out all the stops to try to get the momentum back that they had in October.
ReplyDeleteProphet Brian Carn today! Stroking MP and building him up. Your Bishop can PREACH... he's a GENIUS! (bla, bla, bla I want to know why the prophesies he gave us last time he was hear never came to pass. No assassination attempt on the president. Nobody gave the Bishop a private plane.) Brian is going to do some big things on the internet! Add him on facebook! "Heh, heh, heh, OW!"
ARCHBISHOP NICHOLAS DUNCAN WILLIAMS next week!!
MIDNIGHT MIRACLE (special offering) SERVICE!!!
I wonder how many women are going to show up at the woman's conference.
I for one think what I experienced truly is the issue we all have been addressing. I traveled to North Carolina for RTF. While there, I felt nothing but love; spiritually, physically, mentally, and I attribute this love completely to God. I really struggled leaving. I guess maybe deep down I felt like I was coming back to the complete opposite. After returning on Saturday, I was at CC on Sunday. I must say, though, I think there was some carry over from RTF, because it really felt great there. HOWEVER, as time passed, it was really only a couple of weeks; I noticed the love I felt was wearing. In fact, that love was gone. I truly believe the spirit in that house, whatever it is, is not of love. It is truly the jezebel spirit in there, and it completely ruined me spiritually. After leaving, I still haven't gone back to God, because I don't know who to trust. The person closest to me didn't feel what I felt, and I couldn't understand it. I began to resent that person. It ruined our relationship. That person is still there. In the end, the spirit in that house is OFF, way OFF! It truly has corrupted the congregation. They have blurred vision, a.k.a. MP's vision. I am mortified by what they have going on in there. I do know most believe they are there for God, but if MP preached that one is there for him; they would all cheer in agreement. I still try and talk to God. I hope one day he answers and shows me the way. I never asked for material things, while at CC, just an understanding of what was going on. I never got it. I ultimately feel it is because of the jezebel spirit, that my heart/prayers were corrupted.
ReplyDeleteFood for thought. I am not trying to take away from the subject. Does anyone else notice how one's praise always gets associated with your account balance? Why is it always about how much money one has in their pocket?
ReplyDeleteThey are shrinking FAST! It must be alarming to their accountants.
ReplyDeleteWhat is RTF?
ReplyDeleteKevin, God did speak to you. Keep listening!
ReplyDeleteRTF is a ministry of healing and deliverance. The people that are part of that ministry were trained for almost a year to be able to do it. they were trained by Betsy and Chester kylstra from north carolina who started the healing house there. It really is a wonderful ministry. God always shows up and does wonderous things for the people who come for healing from past or deep seeded issues that hinder them from a full relationship with God and from moving on in their lives or from forgiving people..
ReplyDelete@Leroy "The Guitar Player"
ReplyDeleteI admire you very much for speaking out. I wish I was brave enough. I just left. I had a good excuse, but it was an excuse. I miss my friends, but I couldn't take one more minute of squirming in my seat.
Sheryl Brady was right. You cannot HEAL THE WORLD until you HEAL YOURSELVES!
To Kevin:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing friend.
I believe what you are experiencing at this time is the emotional and mental effects of “disillusionment”. Disillusionment is the DISAPPOINTMENT that follows, after one discovers that what they once bought into AS truth (for many years) --was actually an illusion. A feeling of disillusionment came to all of us Kevin --EXACTLY the moment we realized the total truth OUTSIDE of the “bubble”. Again, lots of emotions to sort through –not to mention the False Teachings as well.
When God told you to leave Kevin: It dawned on you. It was then that you realized that what Michael kept saying was “on the way” for Cornerstone –was never going to manifest. But you bought into it for years, and so here you are.
All those years “expecting” and contributing to what was the “promised greatness” of the Apostle Michael Pitts and his church –was over. All the prophesies of "taking over the city" and so on. Jumping up and down for joy, giving with the hopes of being apart of something “special” and "great"! Yes, my friend….it takes awhile to accept the REALITY of truth and to grieve over what “was”. The ship started going in a different direction from when you first signed up. It is NOT the same church. Therefore, you courageously exited the ship and began the process of swimming to shore for refuge.
But be encouraged friend. It’s one of the expected phases in the process of healing…as TRUTH is revealed to you and you begin connecting the dots to your experience at Cornerstone. And depending on how long and how deep you were involved, this process will affect each of us differently. Again, many lessons to learn after leaving.
PLEASE hang in their friend..God has not forsaken you. He hears your cries. Draw close to Him in this season --you are not lost. You have to trust Him, even when you cannot "track" Him. What was the LAST thing He whispered in your ear? Focus on that. Everything else will fall into place over time...don't try to "figure everything out" all at once.
God Bless you brother!
To Kevin and OTHERS who have recently left:
ReplyDeleteI strongly recommend you get this (short read) book. It deals with the affects of an authoritarian church:
"Letters to a Devastated Christian" by Gene Edwards.
http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Devastated-Christian-Gene-Edwards/dp/0940232693
*Others are suggesting books by authors who are addressing things most are not ready for after just leaving Cornerstone. Some of the things in those particular books are interesting, but not everything is scriptural IMO. As the author, I have a list of books that I have already recommended for those who have recently left. However, if you have a book recommendation that helped you --just e-mail it to me and we'll go from there! =)
Thanks for respecting this.
Sorry, but this is a bit off topic, & this is why I left. No matter who comes to CStone, it always comes back to MP being exalted & lifted up high & then the people are promised something like it's broke, it's the year of Jubilee, all debts are cancelled (would that be due to BK being filed?). How many years have we heard the year of Jubilee blessing? Year after year, it is the same thing: This is the year you won't be sad anymore (really, never ever sad again??. The year, the hour the season to get your blessing. Same old same old every year....
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but the whole repentance part was glossed over with the goodness & mercy of God, which yes, thank God for His mercy, & no, God doesn't seek to humiliate us. But sin is serious business & it must be cleaned up in the house of God first, not glossed over w/all kinds of promises & blessing as God's goodness leading us to repentance. It will most definitely, but the focus should be repentance, not all the other stuff because human nature is to cling to the positive & forget about the negative.
2 Cor. 7:10 says that it is godly sorrow that produces repentance. Sorrow is not a pleasant thing & there is no mention of blessings in that scripture other than to say godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation - that is to Jesus our only source of hope & healing & restoration in life.
And of course, how many offerings can be taken in one service?? Not taking anything from you, only trying to get things to you...sounds wonderful doesn't it? Do the math & see how mcuh money was on the altar. Takes a lot of money to pay for Mr. Carn.
Judge for yourself where the focus always ends up. If you have $10,000 to give, I'm going to make you a pillar - no kidding. Money talks in the Stone & the more you give, the greater your status, no matter what is said otherwise.
And because the "prophet" has spoken to give, then one must give or you'll get out of postion if you don't becasue the enemy is trying to mess you up. And the quicker you move (so you can't stop & think), the quicker God will bless you, what a scam. Oh yea, never fold your seed up - open it, because God can't bless a folded bill?????
To me it's witchcraft, all of it & that is why I left. Anybody will give & shout when they are promised all sorts of things & the atmosphere is charged up emotionally & the service is dragged out & people wore out to the point they lose their ability to think for themselves according to God's Word.
With crowds that big, there are bound to be people w/all manner of physical, financial & emotional needs. It makes me angry & sick to my stomach all at the same time that it always comes back to $$$$$ & elevation of MP to the status of IMO Jesus or God. Where in God's Word does it say that any man will be exalted by God, except the perfect Man, Jesus?
Lord Jesus help us all & help your church to repent of the lust of the flesh for real. Amen & Amen.
I have questions to ask Brian CarnAL.
ReplyDelete1.Why you only ask for "4 pillars" to replace the hundreds of us who were torn down? Because we don't have 10,000?.......SN:a lot of bricks are missing too!
2.When the church leader pull you on the carpet to inform you what you will and will not say; Do you recite it verbatim or are you free to use words the sheep can stomach?
3. Only Ignorant people tell their personal business on facebook; were you talking to them or the abused, disenfranchised people who used to attend CC who have disturbing unresolved church issues to work out?
4. Are there any TRUE Prophets left who are sent of God or do they all pretty much come as they are PAID?
5. If the flags are removed from a mans life, what will be the warning for the people?
These are just five smooth stones laying by the brook...not sure if I've just thrown them or stacked them as a memorial against those who place themselves between God and his people.
I am not prophet and I say: this year will be the year in which the quality of house keeping God performs in his Church will not be matched or resisted or covered up by man.
So it is written
So it shall be done
He actually asked for 10,000 again?
ReplyDeleteThank you Jesus that I never went higher than the specail $100 blessing!
ReplyDelete>>Sheryl Brady was right. You cannot HEAL THE WORLD until you HEAL YOURSELVES! <<
ReplyDeleteNo offense to Cheryl - but *I* have been saying that for YEARS!!!!
Penny (x media assistant - not to be confused with Medea) Collins.
*snort*
They fear this blog. Watch your back. God bless.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that really helped me when I left was watching the live services on the internet, or getting the tapes from the services, and reviewing them in the comfort of my home minus the emotion and hype.
ReplyDeleteI would open my Bible and then listen to Michael's teaching and see if it was taught in context. I would pause the tape / CD and then perform a checks and balance and 90% of the time it was nothing more than getting people's hopes up to believe for something and then came the offering.
I listened to both these services today and I could not believe how far removed from the Bible these preachers are, it's unbelievable.
Instead of sitting around waiting for an angelic visitation (which will never happen), how about we open our Bibles and let the Spirit of Truth reveal the scriptures to us and live according to them.
Stellar concept....
Brian Carn is a false prophet that extorts people for money by offering them false hopes with no scriptural basis whatsoever.
I thought Brian Carn was the prophet who talked about all the perversion in the Stone? Now I am really confused. What happened?
ReplyDeletei think he was referring to eddie long
ReplyDeleteI also noticed how Michael introduced False prophet Carn this morning...
ReplyDeleteHe said to be open and have an ear to hear what the holy spirit will say to YOU. Notice how he doesn't say US. He excludes himself. Carn was pretty much on until he got to the EXTRA BS.
Before that he was dialing in a direct hit on leadership and their pride and sin and the fact that others may get caught (Long) but they didn't but that destruction will come after pride. It's a fact.
It was 50% God and then Jezebel kicked in strong with the pot of gold over the rainbow message.
I really appreciate the love and concern that is shown on this blog. I would have loved to have felt that during my time at cc.We gleaned all that we could while we were there.One can't deny the spirit of excellence that appears to be on the church. It is very appealing- a beautiful sanctuary,committed workers, a great children
ReplyDeleteministry, a "paid" staff,and seemingly all that you can ask for.Sounds like a fairy tale with a prince and all the fantasy. The reality is that there was a prince of a man that came,but he got caught up in the glitter and glamor and has lost his way and can't find his way home. He has been blinded with pride and has gone so far up the beanstalk and the devil is holding him as hostage.Never fear, cause big brother is to the rescue and has the ability to be able
to collect more than enough ransom from some sacrificial ostriches.All big brother has to do is find the right soothsayer and give him a cut. Then out of the blog the good fairy appears
The truth is revealed and the ostriches take their head out of the sand and are not sacrificed. "NEVER FEAR".God is with you always.Shift that spirit that man has placed on you and be free in the Spirit of GOD and the stone will be rolled away and rock on with Bro. Leroy and his talking guitar and you will live happily ever after in the true kingdom of GOD.''''''''''''''''
Part 1
ReplyDeleteWhat helped me when I first left was to line by line sort out truth & look at the deception I had been under at the Stone for so long, & renounce it with truth. I had to discuss with other spiritual leaders outside of the Stone what I struggled with & get real truth on the matters, not twisted truth as presented at CStone.
So, in light of that let's look at the latest Brian Carn show, as that is exactly what it is. Since when did prophesying become a show to draw attention to the prophet & his smooth talking words??? And what a slap in the Holy Spirit's face to bring joking & humor to such serious matters as repentance. Did Jesus or John the Baptist do that??
Thank you Leroy for your 5 smooth stones, I may have 5 of my own as I continue to sort through all of the garbage I was subject to in that place called a "church".
For starters they ("headship" or some appointed somebody) are reading this website & that is why they say & do the things they say & do as of late. Let's look at a few:
#1 - Mr. CarnAL starts out by talking about repentance. Those who have left the Stone know that repentance has been a real issue with all of the rampant sin in the house. Sounded good right? Not really. I quote, "God can't bless you in your mess right, unless I (He sanction what you do, but if I (God) don't bless you, you won't repent." I'm sorry since when do we get to act like spoiled children when it comes to repentance & could I have chapter & verse on "If I don't bless you, you won't repent." Then I ask, is that true repentance or was it conditional?? Again, scripture says in 2 Cor. 7:10 that godly sorrow leads to repentance, not blessing. Boy is Mr. CarnAL smooth. You really have to listen with true discerning ears.
#2 - If you are going to start out talking about repentance, why not fully teach on it & then amazingly, what a concept, actually open the altars for people to repent! Oh, I guess all the repentance is for those outside the walls of the Stone. Again, he's a smooth one. And lets' face it, having a whole service devoted to repentance does not command big dollar offerings. You have to first be called a pillar because you gave $10,000. Really - chapter & verse on that pillar concept please. But in a hyped up emotional (oops "Spirit filled" atmosphere - not) it all sounds so spiritual.
Part 2
ReplyDelete#2 - One more thought on being a pillar for giving so much: Doesn't that create a class system of sorts? How can those in lower paying jobs ever become a pillar if they don't have $10,000 to give? Would they be considerd the straw in making the bricks for Pharoah? Just something to think about.
#3 - Another point of Mr. CarnAL & I quote,"God is going to start dealing with people in leadership - need a transition, a revival, or a shaking". No kidding, but again, that does not apply to the very special, anointed, genius, intelligent leaders at the Stone. Just make mention of it, then roll on. Not sure who Mr. CarnAl was talking about, but again, no time for repentance in that service - only blessings, MULTIPLE offerings & glorified exaltation of MP himself. I quote from the propehliar himself - God's Word to MP: "I am wiping your slate clean (I didn't think he did anything wrong to be wiped clean - it was all of those detractors out there setting him up - oops, I digress) & "the flags against you." Are we really going there again - all those evil ones out there trying to destroy MP. He's doing it to himself.
The best part was this: "I will exalt you and make your name great before kings & princes, yea even the White House." Are we really to be exalting a man? God uses exalt as a term almost exclusive to Him in exalting His name, not that of a man. Even Mr. CarnAL prophesied that pride goeth before a fall. How much more can they fill the pride driven ego of MP?
As Mr, CarnAL said, "Lust when conceived brings forth sin, but sin is a man & when you play with it so long, it controls you." Sure applies to MP doesn't it. His lust for power, exaltation & money has surely come to full fruition. By their fruits you shall know them. And as Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time." Well said.
Where was the exaltation of Jesus's name in all of this?
#4 - Mr. CarnAL gave a long list of things that would be added to them. Not one mention of souls being added to the kingdom anywhere, just fleshly things. Oh yea, he promised no more sickness, financial loss etc. Really, is He God? Can he make those promises & statements that cannot & will never be true as long as we are in this flesh & stuff happens. False promises bring $$$$ because at the point he said that, he asked for everyone agreeing with that to seal it with a $20 offering - bring it to the altar. Witch craft people - what about receive it by faith, period!
How am I doing?? Don't lose hope those of you who are weary in well doing because you left. These are the very reasons you abandoned ship & for good reason.
#5 - Again, Mr. CarnAL prophesying a word to MP from God, I quote: "You will be a distribution center where somebody can come to you for a loan (oops, a grant-his mistake) & you will give them a grant & God will send you a sponsor. Really, not a bank. Of course Brian couldn't say a loan because churches are not banks & should not be in the business of loans or grants or anything else. That opens the door for a whole bunch of mess such as when RP gave a loan to the former owner of TV channel 48, then sued the pants off of a brother in the Lord in court w/none other than CStone tithes & offerings. It's all documented in the Blade folks. If they aren't a bank(for poor folk)then why are they a bank for rich folk who own TV stations - oh yea, they sow up, not down. Funny thing though, a farmer always sows his seeds down into the earth where the seed dies & then brings forth life, much like Jesus did for the all the folks.
Well, those are my 5 not so smooth stones & the truth to refudiate the lies.
Keep the faith all of you who feel lost & out of sorts after leaving the Stone. God is your comfort and Jesus is your Rock on which to stand, all other ground is sinking sand.
To Confused,
ReplyDeleteYes,the last time Brian was there, he did elude to some perversion somewhere in the Body of Christ that he knew about that was going to be revealed. Never said it was in the Stone or he would not be allowed to return.
if you all left cstone - then why you still watching online ... dont you have your own church to attend ... just a question ...?
ReplyDeleteSome of us are still behind the enemy lines. God is doing His work. He will let us know when we have heard enough.
ReplyDeleteTo Question,
ReplyDeleteYes, some of us do. But a part of our deprogramming so to speak is a need to continue to prove to ourselves by watching the false teachings & prophehcies that continue, that we did indeed make the right decision.
And, for those who are in transition out, it helps us to know what is yet going on to shine the light of God's Truth on the deception that continues at the Stone.
We are to worship God & God alone, not a man regardless of what lying prophecy comes out that says God is going to exalt him(MP). The focus is all wrong.
I find it interesting that " Lyin Carnal" didn't start the calling of names until just after the $ 20.00 offering drop. I noticed envelopes were scattered amongst the dollar bills at the altar obviously with personal information filled in. That's why he called out the name Stephanie W, because that's all she wrote on her offering envelope. Notice, how he saw Lisa W and assumed she'd had a stroke , but SHE had to inform HIM that she had been in a car accident.....Prophet? Also, while while laying hands on the unsuspecting, he warned other people not to get too close to him otherwise they would fall down too because he's so anointed.....yet the ushers were next to him the entire time and none of them fell over? Hmmmm.....must have been the anointing resistant usher jackets they were wearing............Prophet?......no Profit!
ReplyDeleteExcellent observations Connecting the Dots. No one there probably observed that in the super hyped up almost ADHD atmosphere of the show. They were too busy writing checks and taking out offerings. And yes, I did notice that not everyone around him was falling down. David Banks didn't go down when he gave his offering & was touched by the master showman.
ReplyDeleteToo bad so many are being deceived, but as the master CarnAl said in his own words: "The time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine, but will heap up for themselves teachers who teach them fables because they have itching ears." What an indictment against the very people that sit in the confines of Cornerstone under the master teacher of itching ears - Michael Pitts.
Every word he spoke today that could actually be a correction applies to Cornerstone & Michael Pitts, yet most of it will never be received as such. It was projected to appear as a "them out there" by the master con artist/profit.
I loved it when he said there would be no more tolerance of God robbers. In my new found thinking, I thought he meant people who tried to rob us of a relationship with God, but he meant no more God robbers w/your tithing this year. I should have known better. The only reason they have a realtionship with God or the Holy Spirit is for financial gain. God must be weeping over what has been done in His name.
Funny too that CarnAL said when you were little in your eyes I could use you. How true of Michael Pitts in the early days at Cornerstone. But again, that word was for somebody else out there as well, not for anyone in the anointed house of I'll ignore your behavior if you ignore mine & we'll all live blissfully ignorant ever after.
Brian Carn is a false prophet and operates by the same spirit as Michael, Jezebel. This spirit calculates every move and message and is very manipulative. Michael is not a genius, not even close. He has been seduced by the spirit of Jezebel and seeks to control and now intimidate with posts like, watch your back.
ReplyDeleteGod has the backs of those who speak Truth, we're good over here, thanks for the heads up though....Elihu is rising up as a company of real prophets and we know how that story ends.
We watch the services so we can demonstrate to people how off these people are and why they should head for the exits.
There is no such thing as the spirit of excellence (show me the scripture). I found it was more an establishment which demanded perfection from people, and again, that is the fruit of Jezebel and control.
It causes people to experience different forms of anxiety disorders because they feel they can't make any mistakes or they are criticized and have to go to the back of the line.
There is no grace from these leaders, just criticism and demotion. Jezebel is the queen of creating mental disorders in people to where they think they are crazy.
God doesn't demand or expect any excellence, what He wants is humility from his servants, selflessness, and an expression of His Love toward His children.
Another fruit of Jezebel is a spirit of flattery and this manifests every time another hireling is brought in to merchandise the gospel. Bishop is the greatest preacher in the whole world, he is a genius.....you are so fortunate to have him, sometimes you don't know what you have until they are gone....hmmmmmmm....
You can't serve God and Mammon. It's one or the other.....
I am going to break down the fruit of Jezebel so we can all see clearly what is operating here in a later post if allowed by the author. This helped me to transition when I was able to source why I was feeling the way I was when I left 3 years ago....
A thought just came to me. Michael is an "expert" on climates & atmospheres, strongholds & such. He knows exactly how to set an atmosphere to get what he wants done & when Jezebel is in control, the sky is the limit as to what can be accomplished.
ReplyDeleteYes, Michael and all of his pastoral staff have been seduced by the same spirit & it ain't excellence.
But just so you know Boski, the whole spirit of excellence came from a teaching Michael gave some time ago from the book of Daniel from Dan. 5:12 where Daniel was described as having an excellent spirit among other things. I'm not so sure you can make a whole doctrine out of it, but it came to that in Cornerstone & the phrase everything being done with a spirit of excellence was coined so to speak.
However, it isn't all excellent there when you pull back the covers & see what really lies beneath. The excellence that is expected from ministry workers does not always flow from ministry leaders - last minute this, no follow through on that etc.
But then again, ignorance is bliss as Anonymous above said.
Once again, another scripture cherry picked and twisted out of context to serve the purposes of controlling people.
ReplyDeleteWatching and Learning. . .
ReplyDeleteI was not clear on the the Jezebel spirit. Finding this article has opened my eyes . . . http://www.albatrus.org/english/church-order/women-matters/jezebel_in_our_society.htm all I say is PRAY PRAY PRAY all of us . . God protected Elijah for seven years from her. . . i was not aware that Jezebel was a warring spirit. . uncovering her will not remove her it will only stir her up more it will take the spirit of Jehu to uproot her. . . Its amazing the depth of her hold on those in power and leadership. . what an eye opening start to a new year WOW! thanks to all of those who have shared and are sharing. . . our hurts and pains are not in vain! Healing is taking place where there is healing something stronger more resilient is being born in the name of TRUTH. to God be the glory!
How are we to pray collectively against such a spirit and how are we to pray for those under her spell? How are we to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are now over taken by her? Do we leave leadership to her vices without praying for them? Do we now count them as the enemy or do we fight for them to be free from her influence? Looking at the casualties of her influence do we fault the man or do we attack (in prayer) the spirit influencing the man? What is the solution for churches that fall weak to her prey? Is there a special intercessory group who is standing in the gap to win back these leaders that have such great value in the Kingdom of GOD? Do we fight for them on behalf of them or walk away? Do we disassociate are we no longer that particular brothers keeper? So many questions as I see the spirits behind the behaviors. We fight not against flesh and blood . . you know the rest . . so how are we doing that collectively. .
ReplyDeleteYou have to remove their earthly kingdoms that feed her power. You stop financing the system and it collapses. That is the only way. She will not repent or recant. She will fight being right until the building is empty and nothing is left to feed her ego. The power is then gone.
ReplyDeleteIf I had a dollar for every person that stuck around and prayed for change.....I would be a rich man. It ain't going to change. Read the story of Jezebel.
@ boski thanks . . . I will . . God bless you!
ReplyDeleteOne of the most dangerous men on earth is one who begins to believe his own mythology.
ReplyDeleteI don't watch online. It isn't worth my time.
One thing that helped me was stepping of the spiritualization of, well, everything. I looked at my situation for what it was: a dysfunctional machine.
God has nothing to do with a man of myth. I simply saw the dynamics of control and addiction. As long as I kept a healthy detachment, I was ok. It is so much easier when you see it for the earthly thing that it is.
By the way, there is no spirit of excellence at work there. It is a spirit of mediocrity. The whole place is functioning around an ideal with no real world experience. God, I suppose, gives them the Know-how.
Perhaps they need the most ignorant to be at the top. I don't know. I don't mean to insult. I have observed that there are people in authoritative positions that if they held those same positions in the "real world" -- they would never make it. I prefer a surgeon who has been to Med School who passed with an MD, I prefer a therapist who is trained and licensed, etc. The people crying out for excellence have no clue as to how to be excellent. That's why they try to rule us poor peons with their expectations.
I know a lot of people mean well, but I also know a lot of damage that has been caused.
As far as "watching my back" -- doesn't that just ring of Cornerstone? A vague threat to feed the fear. Hallelujiah.
I wonder? I would like to ask "anonymous" -do you have your own blog ? I notice that you contribute alot.Are you a licensed therapist. maybe you have found a new calling,however anonymous doesn't identify a particular blogger. Is it you everytime anonymous contributes to this site, or are their several anonymous bloggers? Could you please put your name on your work so I can know which articles are definetly your's.It will be easier to distinguish you from another anonymous. Thanks
ReplyDeleteThis is the anon who said "watch your back." It's not a threat. It is fear. I don't put anything past RP.
ReplyDelete-What helped me when I first left C-stone was to surround myself with logic, reasonable right thinking people, to present them with scenarios of what I had seen going on in a very neutral way, and to ask them to give me their most sincere and objective advice. These friends were highly educated, God fearing people. We spoke in common sense terms, not in "hyper spiritual" or fake "church" dialogue. I took these friends to church with me for a service so they could see first hand. They were completely sickened with the way money offerings were waved in the air and how the focus was on MP and of course offerings. I left not too long thereafter, haven't given a dime since and don't care to return, watch on line or hear anything coming from that pulpit. I do really appreciate this blog though, I love the way you break everything down line by line, action by action. If all Christians used this level of analysis as it pertains to their faith, we could really build something genuine and lasting in the Kingdom of God. So bravo to you all here.
ReplyDeleteAs far as coercion and threats are concerned, lets remember that we live in a free country, we all are not subject to controlling spirits. If anyone is feeling threatened by anyone from the Cornerstone Staff, I would urge you to contact the authorities with any threating emails or communications they are sending you. That will put an end to that immediately.
As far as "discernment" goes and the "knowing of times" and "atmospheres", I would have to say the Stone is way off. We are living in times where the ability to lead/live doubles lives has become diminished due to social media such as facebook, myspace, twitter and blogs like this one. We are living in times where people are repressed economically and are very careful as to where their money is going, people don't mind giving, but they want to see it going to help people not to build second or third homes for greedy pastors.
I find it refreshing to see people like Mark Zuckerberg, the creator of facebook. a billionaire six times over, lives a more philanthropic and humble lifestyle that your present day megachurch leader.
Thank you "anonymous" -You are right. But remember the Word was "Fear Not". And although we may not put anything past them --THEY CANNOT get past God. Who btw, already has our back.
ReplyDeleteEVERYBODY:
Keep sharing "WHAT HELPED YOU AFTER LEAVING"
*Again let's stay focused on this particular article. Thanks!
@ "Boski" -Other articles may come on such topics, but one thing at a time friend. Thanks...
-I also wanted to comment briefly, that I focus on humility and being humble a great deal in my life now, for years after leaving the CC I had this arrogant and haughty spirit that I just couldn't shake. I had to go back and examine myself, my motives and my walk very thoroughly to determine why this was. I started remembering various messages MP had preached and various quotes he had made over the years ("they hate me cause they ain't me", etc) and finding scriptures in the bible to counter act those little "nuggets" of arrogance. When I read about his status updates on FB here on this blog, I just shake my head. They sound completely rude and nothing Christlike about it.
ReplyDeletePeace to you all, you don't have to be a part of something offensive, mean spirited, false, and corrupt. And you don't have to apologize for leaving, for not liking it and for calling it out for what it is.
What helped me to transition was going back and taking inventory of all the "prophetic words and promises over the years". I wrote them all down and none of them ever manifested.
ReplyDeleteTo echo what someone said earlier, the first step was to stop lying to yourself to justify not having to leave a place of comfortability.
The bottom line is that the Bible is the gold standard when it comes to determining what is from the Lord and what is a doctrine or teaching (fable) of man.
Above and beyond this, you must ask yourself who was being spoken to, when they were being spoken to, and whether or not that scripture in CONTEXT applies to us as New Testament believers today.
Most of these independent self exalted preachers have little to no understanding of how to interpret scripture, rather it is twisted and cherry picked here and there to brew their own message of manipulation for financial gain.
To randomly take a scripture from Ezekiel and play numerology games to pull in a large offering is, well, not the Spirit of God and a lot of people are going to end up disillusioned.
The internet and ability to see other points of view regarding church leadership, tithing and giving, etc. also helped to clear up much confusion.
I will leave you with this...
Many will say the kingdom of God is here or there, but the Bible says the kingdom of God is immaterial (spirit) and it lies within all of us. Jesus is the only King that should be upon the throne of our hearts and we (over the course of our lives) allow him to rule and reign more and more in every aspect of our life.
The teaching that we are establishing the kingdom of God by accumulating RE and buildings and material things is false doctrine.
The wealth of the wicked scripture is taken completely out of context and used to line the pockets of charlatans all over the country today.
God abides in us wherever we are and heaven and earth (material)will pass away.
Stay focused on Him and realize every blessing has already been provided by a simple faith in what He did at Calvary.
Also, to echo speaking the truth, let's try to stay focused on the question posed here for each topic.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to get off the trail and talk about other things related to life after Cornerstone Toledo there is always this site here that I found also:
http://toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/68564/Cornerstone_Church_thread_part_2
This kind of breaks down a time line of happenings and events over the years.
It appears there are many people who want answers to a lot of stuff. I guess 35K blog views confirms this...
Amen eyes wide open! Felt it in my spirit all while reading your post!
ReplyDeleteThat is the point of having a "blog author". I am trying to read the articles that have to do with "what helped you" under the "fear not" subtitle, but people like you insist on making smug remarks and getting off topic. You are not so important that you require a reason as to why the author deleted your comment. Also, if it was myself, I would delete any comment from someone who is so pompass as to refuse to stop putting anonymous as their name. I'm sure this will be deleted also, sorry, not trying to get off topic. I'm just getting annoyed at those who are detouring helpful threads. On a positive note, I am learning much from the comments that give insight as to what helped these people transition from CS. Thank you for being so heart felt. And thanks to the author for starting this blog. It is my inspiration to break away from these chains.
ReplyDelete@ Stay on Topic:
ReplyDeleteYour comment ended up in spam until I could manually post it..this happens sometimes. Thanks for your patience and your response to the comment below posted by Sam I Am.
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“Sam I AM said: I've never seen anyone outed on Toledo Talk, He did ban some people but over all he is fairly tolerant. Especially when peole have been banned from here, and messages deleted when the admin doesn't like the content. Unless it is a direct attack on someone (and then a very bad one) no messages should ever be deleted, and when they are there should be a nontation as to why. The down fall for people here posting on Toledo Talk, is that they have a lot of anti religion/ anti Bible people so you may find support in the fight against MP, but not as much support for keeping faith in general.”
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@ Sam I Am:
Please check our comment policy page -all comments are subject to deletion at the discretion of the blog author/editor. Some of your comments have been great! However, I did delete one of them recently. We want comments that are scripturally sound and stay "on topic". Please don’t be offended –Your comments are welcomed as long as you adhere to our policy. We don’t want the blog going off on several “bunny trails” if you will. Thanks for your understanding.
Again –This article is on “What HELPED YOU after you left” --So let's continue Speaking the Truth in Love friends!
Toledo Talk outed people by naming dual IP identities.
ReplyDeleteNew people have no where else to post when you close a topic. There are going to be new people coming to this blog every day who would like to tell why they left. Or why they are trying to leave.
Maybe someone should start another blog for people still trying to break the ties. We need somewhere to connect.
To Anon 8:52 pm:
ReplyDeleteWe DO welcome people here who have comments or questions that are still trying to break the tie. Just like we allowed in the last article from “Grateful” and “Peace” (who are still at the church trying to make a break). They need to see that there are legitimate and credible people, who have left Cornerstone and are truly seeking to help others. After all, we are still bros. and sis. in Christ. So we need to remain patient and prayerful w/ one another, as we ALL sort through this.
Our posters have also provided some wonderful dialogue with those who are still in the process of leaving –which is very much needed at this time.
So, YES --this CURRENT ARTICLE is a place where those that JUST LEFT --can still share their reasons why. And……FOR EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAS ALREADY LEFT --They are the ones who can post what helped them AFTER LEAVING in return.
Thanks!
Please forgive me for intruding on this blog but the reason I do is because I did not know these things were occurring. If it weren't for derick thomas I would not have known about this site in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the comments here I am heartbroken at the things I am reading on so many levels. I think somewhere for those if us still there who are just becoming aware of these things would be a good idea. There may be folks at the church who are feeling, seeing or hearing things but have no where to go or anyone to turn to. We are not the enemy here. We are where you were in the beginning....
Grateful:
ReplyDeleteOne thing I know about my own recovery, is that when I was where you are (so to speak, our journeys ARE different yet they ARE the same), I wanted validation. I felt like I was insane. I felt like I was wrong, that I was doing something wrong, etc. I love many people at the Stone.
As I heard story after story, after story, I realized I was looking for validation for what I already knew: the place was a manic dysfunctional machine.
Each of us need different things at different times. One thing I needed and felt that I did not really have - was someone who had been through it already. I don't mean people who have gotten out and are still on the angry train. I needed someone who had worked through some stuff so that I could be guided. I guess I needed a "sponsor" if you will.
You aren't crazy. And regardless of what you decide, you will be ok. If you need something, ask. I am sure someone here will have some experience, strength and hope to share.
Sometimes I still want to know the story behind the rumor. But, I also have to check myself as to WHY I want to know and then explore what I will do with the information I get. Will it help my recovery? Or am I just interested in gloating over making the "right" decision? Will it put me into some sort of emotional tailspin?
Why did Derrick Thomas direct you here? Is he leaving also?
To Grateful,
ReplyDeleteYour comments & questions are welcomed here. We do not consider you or anyone else the enemy. We are all brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus & must treat each other in that regard & in light of God's Word.
As you can tell, there is much frustration on everyone's part as we have all walked the same road in sorting through this mess.
I can only say, that if a pastor were a true shepherd, straightforward & honest, & open to dialogue with his sheep, would there be a need for this blog? Probably not.
Again, much grace has been given to Michael & hsi brother. There comes a point where you have to look at the facts, the fruit, & the truth & decide based on those things who & what you are willing to follow & why.
We can all pray for them, but God will not override anyone's will. If Michael refuses to listen to anyone, then what makes you think all our praying is going to make a difference. His will is set & he is not about to make it look as though he has anything to make right with anything, no matter how many people leave. He has new ones to come & fill their places & then the lie starts all over with those captivated by Michael's charisma & the atmosphere & music in the church.
I know you say you are there to serve God & that may be. However, you cannot deny the fact that the culture of the church is set to "exalt" Michael & when there is group energy & dynamics involved, your individuality gets lost in the direction of the pull of the group. And when someone as dynamic as Mr. Carn comes to visit & all he does is pump up MP, it is all about him & there was no lifting up the name of Jesus as much as there was MP, offerings & CStone. Interesting to me.
I know, its hard. You can't decide & feel torn. Put your feelings aside & read these posts & look at the truth. We can't all be "off" & disgruntled. You are being influenced by the seducing spirit of the house. It has a strong influence.
I pray that you find some peace with yourself soon. Why would you have so much angst & questioning if there weren't something you have already seen to make you question? If it walks like a duck & talks like a duck, it's a duck. If a man walks like a pastor & talks like a pastor, he is probably a pastor, but if something with the 2 don't line up, you are dealing with a different creature.
If as you say, you are there to serve God with the call of God on your life, & are not there doing it for MP or for recognition, then God can lead you somewhere else.
Keep reading & sharing. No hard feelings here.
How did Derick bring this site to your attention? And why?
ReplyDeleteTo the Author: I say "well said"! No matter what level we are at..WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS and as such should respect eachother...LOVE one another...this is how they (the world) will know you are My (Jesus') disciples! We are to just love on eachother. No matter what the leadership says or does, they do not control me or who I chose to chat/talk/associate with...and I am saddened by all this and continue to pray for all of you/us/them/everyone.
ReplyDeleteto Grateful: we must continue to do what we know is right and remember why we are there...to do God's will and I know where my heart is. I cannot speak for leadership, but I am saddened more isn't being done to address the underlying issues at the Stone. I pray 2011 will be an enlightening year. I'm watching and waiting with eyes wide open! I do not fear as I know my God will never leave me nor forsake me and He loves me more than I can imagine...I am comfortable-yes, but I love my Church (big "C"-the people) and I still believe in the heart of MP, that deep down inside he truly has a heart of the people and can repent for any wrongdoing or wrong/fleshy motives. I may be naive or trusting or believing for the best in someone, but I do believe in a miraculous God! So, for now, I sit and wait and watch...will most def use all the tools/tactics listed above to proove and analyze what is said/done at our church (small "c")...until we chat again...peace to you all as we continue to walk it out together.
I didn't understand when I met him at a "connecting point" exactly why MP made me so uncomfortable. Was it the fake tan, puffy lips and unnaturally thick eyelashes? Was it his body language when I walked up to him, crossed arms and a step backward, or was it his expensive clothes and flashy jewelry?
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that I put it all aside to listen to him speak. I longed to hear his word week after week. I mourned when he was elsewhere and a visiting preacher took his place or someone from the house stepped up for "filler church."
I feel like I lost something. The trust I put in him was misplaced when he wouldn't speak out against the Predator. People like me who have been preyed upon and molested by one we trusted are never going to feel right about him again.
Nothing makes leaving better. Not yet. Give me time.
Facebook. He put it out there asking who the author was and/or if any of us knew who it was because he felt it was time to say something about what had been said about him and his situation but he refuses talk to anonomous people.
ReplyDeleteTo So Very Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThank your for opening up friend. When we are abused, we look for a "savior" -one who promises to guard and protect us once again. Where we can feel “safe” and “not ashamed.” When this new protector falls asleep on the job, we feel violated all over again –do we not?
Please know, you are not alone --many folks projected this onto Michael Pitts. Believing in the God in Him. Believing that he WOULD protect the sheep by all means necessary. Believing that he was a true shepherd who cared for the sheep. He always likened himself to David; we took him at his word. But when David REPENTED, he was truly sorrowful and took FULL OWNERSHIP of his actions. David did not repent only in private –it was a PUBLIC REPENTANCE; as he went onto restore the relationships he had broken and changed his course ---Have you seen this??
Friend, I wish things were different for you -I can literally hear your heart mourning as I read your comment. I certainly could "blast" you will a ton of words that would shock you, as to the first-hand accounts of the behavior of your “shepherd” and his brother. But too many “ugly details” only feed into the ugly cycle of co-dependency. At some point, a decision has to be made.
In the meantime, please consider this: Staying at a church because of YOUR good intentions is not scriptural or healthy. I realize it is difficult…. and sometimes it’s just easier to “wait” and “hope” for reformation. We’ve all been there. I say: Perhaps RETURNING [after] reformation occurs –would be the proper way to approach this situation. When you are still attending, serving, and financially supporting something –you indeed are allowing the dysfunction to continue at YOUR OWN expense. (Read the short story “Who moved my cheese.”)
This is a strong statement, but I am going to say it: Michael and Robert PREY upon the good hearts of the members of Cornerstone Church. They KNOW that you love them and they use it for their own advantage. I have witnessed many times, Michael projecting onto “others” how they are the “bad ones”. Playing the old “Bad Cop/Good Cop” game quite well. This is what is referred to as Psychological Projection and is a defense mechanism which is actually very personally destructive. Yeah, it IS that serious. As YP said: They KNOW what’s going on behind the scenes and they allow it. Think objectively here: Why??? And do you think that only these “others” are the only ones involved in such lasciviousness? Yeah, it’s easier to swallow that “version” of the story.
With that being said “So Very Anonymous” --keep following the Voice of the Holy Spirit for yourself. He is truth. It’s not about “taking our word for it”. We have no desire to “prove” anything and don’t need to. We Pray that ALL are restored, healed, and better for it –not bitter. But again, for ALL –that is a choice and ALL have a free will. Sometimes people HAVE made their “choice”…it just takes us a minute to process it, as we see it unfold.
To Grateful:
ReplyDeleteThanks for informing us of this. What an interesting assumption. Such an obvious ploy to get information, being that we have little to no one coming onto the blog asking to confirm such things. Everyone knows the blog is about healing from Spiritual Abuse. As we know, there are other blogs who do allow an atmosphere to post any and everything..we have always said --This is not the place to keep everyone updated on the latest “social news”.
We have always suggested going to an individual in person. Not to say that the “hearsay” of alleged misconduct may or may not be true, it’s just simply not OUR focus. As anyone can clearly see, IF they take the time to read through all the articles and comments.
However, we certainly appreciate the post on Facebook! That explains how the word spread to the Network Pastors and their members so quickly.
Psalms 57:6-- “They have digged a pit before me, into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves. Selah.”
I hear you... I hear you all. I guess my thing is I just cant wrap my brain around the possibility of MP actually being the person you all pseak of. I mean I understand personalities clash and some dont like authority and others dont like structure but the deep stuff that you speak of, the deliberate deception.. That is what I cant grasp...
ReplyDeleteTo So Very Anonymous…
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry to hear how you have been treated at Cornerstone. I recommend very highly that you seek out the professionals that this blog recommends. I believe that this is a very healing place for those who have experienced abuse such as you have encountered. Please do not give up on God; this truly is not His doing. This is the fault of a fallen man who is not being held accountable for his sin.
Please know that you are very much in our prayers and you are surrounded by the love of God. He will never leave you or forsake you.
@grateful, I have not been able to post over the holidays as they have been busy, but I have been reading. As far as deception goes, which you say you can't get your head around, let me ask you this . . . . was it deceptive to deny (first time), ignore and ultimately excuse his drinking problem which resulted in 2 DUIs, jail time and suspension of his license? Is it deception to pay for privately owned real estate and business ventures with Church funds and then sell them to other private individuals at a loss? Now why do you think they might do that? There are many things we could speculate about, but the above are public record and can not be disputed.
ReplyDeleteI did not see DT's post on facebook. He must have deleted it. Not too smart. Everybody knows that the more you stir "IT" the more it stinks.
ReplyDeleteWhat helps me? This blog. Thank you!
@Grateful, I share your pain but these are a few of the inescapable facts I had to confront when I was continually "givin' the stone a pass".
ReplyDeleteI think the original post was on or about December 21st.
ReplyDeleteI do hear what you all are saying but since I am not privy to the bank records of this house I dont know whose money was used for what. I dont know about business deals and who did what...
I was there for only a couple of months when the very first arrest came about the indecent exposure. I had no clue about anything spiritual at that time and I just went to God and asked Him if he did it and God told me : "He did not".
So I stood through all of it. Then the DUI (s) came. I stood through that too becasue I didnt see a huge issue with it since we are all human and pastors as well as congregants make mistakes and come into the kingdom with unresolved issues that need to be addressed and sometimes we let God and sometimes we fight Him.
I think MP paid his price for those and God allowed them to come to light for a reason..maybe God had been dealing with him privately and he was resisting, I dont know.
Knowing what the Bishops "requirements" are, I dont see those occasions as a violation of all of them therefore leaving him unquaified for that office.
As I have stated, I have not witnesses or heard of anything deceptive, cruel, unethical or otherwise until now and with all do respect, it is from anonomous people other than the the few that have identified themselves, and that being said, is only one side to those stories.
Now I discount in no way what you say you have gone through and I do not for a moment think that any human being is above reproach and infallible and often we are completely stupid in our choices.
The deeper issue for me here is deliberatly hurting, decieving and misleading people.
the offering issues, I dont have a problem with those either. I dont have 10,000 dollars so that request doesnt apply to me... If I did and I clearly heard God speak to give I would, in obedience to the Lord, not MP or anyone else. I am not now nor have I ever been manipulated or coerced into thinking money buys a blessing.
So, in closing, my issue here is the thought that RP and MP could only have the agenda for coming to Toledo to deceive people here for monetary gain. I have just never seen that pat of their hearts. I have had more interaction with MP than Rp and on that note, I have seen his heart on many occasions over various things and I only ever saw compassion, concern and love for the people of Cornerstone, so that is why I cant grasp this stuff.
@ Grateful:
ReplyDeleteYou need to REread the qualifications of a Bishop friend. Found in I Timothy 3. Until you do, there is not much more to discuss.
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/5403.htm
No one has said Cornerstone started out with deceptive hearts. And we are not trying to convince or persuade you to leave. You are visiting the blog for confirmation on what you have ALREADY been sensing correct? I believe you may be one of those who are waiting for some BIGGER than life confirmation, just one more confirmation, etc. BE LED BY THE STILL SMALL VOICE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Fear Not.
This was the BIG confirmation we all received as our eyes were opened. How much more of a confirmation is needed friend? Must you see leadership violating scripture right in their own home in order to accept it?? JUDGE THE FRUIT period ---you shall know them by their fruit, not by their Gift or how “nice” they are to people. Btw, a cluster of grapes CAN be PLACED among thorn bushes can it not? When the services are over, do you feel closer to the Pastor...or pointed closer toward your personal relationship with Jesus Christ?
I recommend reading our article on “Identifying the Fruit of a False Prophet”.
I saw DT's status on FB asking if anyone knew who this blog author is because he wants to answer questions to whoever has been asking. Seems to me like he just wants to know who the people commenting on this blog are. If he really wants to explain himself, he can write a note on his FB page and make it public, write a letter to the editor of his local newspaper or start a blog of his own telling his "story" or "side of the story".
ReplyDeleteThis blog, the people who leave their comments/OPINIONS on PUBLIC FIGURES are not the enemy, TRUTH is not the enemy.
God is near to those who are hurting and broken hearted, thats what I read in these comments, people who love God, were misled or misused and want answers, and more than that healing. It's a good thing. Bringing all of these issues to light will not only help those who are hurt, ultimately it will serve to help those in leadership to know what they were doing wrong, and to know that you can't treat God's people like dirt and think God is going to turn a blind eye. Not going to happen.
This is the year of accountability. Mark my words.
If you have never seen, don't know first hand that MP or RP treats people poorly, good for you. You must be one of the "chosen" who get special treatment. This is a common occurence in dysfucntional systems. Some people/children/groups are "special" and are treated "extra special" to help the abusive person maintain a shred of legitimacy. But that is "codependency 101", there is a lot of good literature out there on that topic, get yourself familiar with it.
I really like the idea that someone else gave about starting another blog, if you do, please leave the address here, as I would like to read and comment on that blog also. Many people have much to say, and we all say it in a different way, we all are at different levels. Some people may want to go more in depth on certain topics/doctrine, etc that isn't appropriate here, but may be in another setting. I would love to read a blog that focuses on dcotrine more. It will help to give people proper teaching.
Best to all including the people still at/leading Cornerstone, I hope everyone gets the help/teaching/guidance they so badly need.
Hey All,
ReplyDeleteA great book I have just "stumbled" upon is called JADED: Hope for Believers who have given up on the church, but not on God.
Excellent READING! Not a long book, easy read in a few short hours. Written by A. J. Kiesling. I found it at the library! I'm taking it back today;-). I am so very thankful for all God has done for me and my family. Leaving is hard, and sometimes you are told you probably don't need to come back (as if we would want to...lol) Well, don't want to let the cat outta the bag, but GOD IS SOOOOO GOOD!!!
I think it important to note that God's Spirit is not going to tell or reveal things to you that are contrary to the Bible.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that is dangerous about Cornerstone is that it's easy to get very subjective with what we claim God is saying.
This is guised under the so called "prophetic" word of the Lord and is the seedbed for manipulation. It is the slippery slope into doctrines of men and controlling spirits.
For instance, B Carn says the Lord told him EXTRA this year, and mo money for everyone but that can't be found in the Bible at least not in context of how we are to live our lives as NT believers. Not to mention that seems to be the only thing the Lord ever says from these "guest" ministers.
On one hand he talks about how greedy we have become in this nation, how we need to repent, and then flips the script and goes into false hopes and promises to get a big honorarium check and an invite back in the future.
Here is the real word of the Lord because it's based in scripture. If you want to know what the Lord said and is saying that is applicable to leadership today, here you go, free of charge, you don't even need to sow money for it, just open your Bible:
Matthew 21:13
He told them, "My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you're turning it into a den for thieves!"
Guess what hangs out in a den? Wolves.
Guess what wolves do? Prey on the weak (not noticeably but by stealth)
Guess Who is supposed to be protecting you from these wolves? The Under Shepherds (Pastor).
Guess why Mike and Rob are not true Pastors? Wrong fruit.
Again, like eyeswideopen said above, the Bible is the filter or gold standard by which we must judge what ministers are teaching us. If it's not in the Bible and in proper context, it ain't God folks as much as you may try to justify it.
Remember, denial is the first sign of co-dependency.
godsjustsayin'
There have been many lessons learned since I left the Stone over three years ago. One, however, soars above the rest in its impact. Please bear with me as I share a two part story of what God taught me. The experience was neither fun, nor pleasant, but it has proven to be the most beneficial.
ReplyDeletePart I
The tough lesson of which I speak began soon after I left. In that season of transition, during a time of prayer, I began to ask myself some difficult questions: “What, about me, made me susceptible to this abusive atmosphere? What, about me, made me stay so long? Was I part of the problem?” These questions, if not asked humbly to the Lord, can lead to a sense of guilt and shame, because there are no easy, “quick fix” answers. You can’t play the “blame game” when you are asking God to search your own heart. However, because I did choose to ask these questions, and I did choose to seek enlightenment for my own soul, it helped me to refrain from being angry with the Pitts brothers. Why did it help ease the anger? Because God began to show me that, in many ways, I was complicit with them. They were not the only ones to blame… after all… I had spent many, many years there. I had begun to think like they thought… and I, even, cheered them.
I know that some who have written on this blog want to share their anger for being so, absolutely, deceived. But… as God began to reveal my own false motives, my own pride, my own poor attitude, I had to bow before God and humbly repent of “my” sin. Quite often, saints, I was not deceived… I liked the message, I enjoyed the entertainment, and it did not bother me that outsiders disliked us. I was, to quote modern vernacular, “all in.” When the Lord began to reveal to me these very difficult truths, and how far from His heart of purity I had strayed, I had to ask God to forgive me. Then… I had to contact others and repent to them as well.
Lesson Learned since I left… continued…
ReplyDeletePart II
After my season of repentance to God, and others, I had to begin the long, but rewarding process of renewing, and restoring, a right relationship with the “real” Jesus Christ… the one who came to seek and to save the lost. The One who came to serve, not be served. The One who wrapped Himself in an apron and washed His disciples feet. That Jesus, who saw me all those years ago as lost and bound for hell, and gave His life a ransom for me. What a heartbreaking revelation to know that I had strayed so far, while remaining so proud of not straying. Pride is a terrible thing. It is the only disease that makes everyone in the room sick, except the on who has it. But Pride also goes before a fall… and in that season I had to fall… fall before the Lord in repentance. I had to seek, once again, and quite often since then, to be washed in the blood of the Lamb. I had to cry out for Him to remove far from me the heart of stone, and replace it with a heart after God. I cried out in thirst for Him, as the deer panteth for the water. The problem was not just in them, saints, it was in me.
I know that others, probably, did not have this same experience. I can tell by the words of those who have written that they were deceived… they were victims in the highest degree. But that is not my story. I was, in many ways, complicit. This is the lesson that I have learned since I have been gone, and I never want to forget it, ever again.
Be well, saints. May God bless you with His Presence in this coming year.
Grateful, you don't need bank records to track the details of the TV station transaction. You need access to public records, and you can get that online or this info can be found on the Talk Toledo threads.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Givin the Stone a Pass should contact David Yonke over at the Blade so he can do a follow up to this story with the transaction details.
Maybe he can see what it really sold for on public records and to whom and then do the math.
I pray your eyes open to the Truth. Let the Spirit of Truth reveal to you all deception so that you and your family may be free from manipulation and control!
I start attending Cornerstone many years ago when the church was doing these big outreaches every summer in the poor parts of our city. It was wonderful with all of us working and serving out there together. MP would be walking around smiling and talking with everyone along with the entire staff. Thousands of very poor people would attend and get blessed. No offerings were ever taken but so much love was given and so many got saved. I was so proud of MP and our church family. Then after many years it just stoped. The focus was more on money, MP became more distant, the guest speakers hyped us on how we will be blessed if we give to them. I just got more sad each year till greatly disillusioned I left. I feel so empty and heartbroken. I think Jesus wants us to go to the poor who can't give anything back because it helps us become more like Him and takes the focus off us. I am sad because of what Cornerstone and MP could be but is not anymore. Does anybody know why we stopped those outreaches? One thing that has helped me is to try and bless those less fortunate then me. Thanks for this blog.
ReplyDeleteOh yea, last thing I want to do is take things out of context. Here is the verse before the den of thieves one above:
ReplyDeleteJesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
Doves are symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Michael and the wolf pack sold out the Holy Spirit for money along time ago. The dove and the blessing that he brings is free folks, no need to buy anything when it is already yours by faith alone.
Don't buy things you already possess.
To Connecting The Dots...
ReplyDeleteYour findings are mysteriously close to my findings with Mr. Carn. Why anyone else in leadership of any kind anywhere has not caught on to this is beyond me.
His first time at the Stone, if you noticed or were there or watched online, the FIRST people he called out without having taken any offerings were the people whose big PICTURES and NAMES were out on the hall wall, the first wall you see walking into the church And people that work on staff! Banks,Repass etc. I was on the platform at the time and when there were huge amounts of people being led onto the platform with their envelopes in their hands, I was within 3 feet of Brian Carns. I had my hands up, and my eyes closed, then i suddenly opened my eyes, and this is NO LIE... I saw him standing in front of a lady, squinting up at the envelope in her hands!! Reading it!!! Not suprisingly, one of the people whom he called down a little later by naming the street they lived on was this woman! Hmmmmmm...... People love signs and wonders. And, they will pay big money to have someone call out their name. So eerily similar to the "moneychangers" Jesus chased out of the church. Wish someone would do the same nowadays.
They stop outreaches because they cost lots of money. Not a good investment. TV stations area better investment.
ReplyDeleteTo Not Anonymous Anymore:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing. I'm glad to hear your family is doing so well!
It sounds like “Jaded” may be a good reference for those seeking to heal and move forward from Spiritual Abuse. Does this particular book suggest that we should only meet in homes?
Acts 2--
The Fellowship of the Believers
42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
DUH,
ReplyDeleteWe are driving out the money changers by exposing those who contradict and revealing the Truth on sites like this here.
Keep posting, the more the better. Hit the forums, shout it from the rooftops, every high place is coming down.
To Get Real:
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting.
We do have several other articles teaching specifically on subjects of sound doctrine --you need only scroll down. (Check out the tabs on the right.)
Right now (we feel) the blog needs to focus on people sharing their personal stories of WHY they left and WHAT HELPED them after doing so.
It's TIME for people to FEAR NOT, AS THEY SPEAK OUT -Thanks.
To: DUH
ReplyDelete-Excellent observation friend -thanks for contributing!
Have you seen this YouTube video on Brian CarnAL at Jamal Tyrant's church?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHRuvolls80
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete@ Boski:
ReplyDeleteAgain, no one is saying folks CANNOT meet in a home or read certain books. Asking about the content of the book was not "discounting it". As for all I know, you may have posted that comment in the first place with your various user names. Good grief.
As the blog author, I obviously want to review what it placed on the blog. However, I have always encouraged others to think objectively regardless.
We agree on this --the path forward, may be different for everyone. We've stated this several times.
Again, you have an agenda..and that's the only REAL problem here.
Please let it go. Thanks.
Have you ever questioned yourself or even others when they say, "God told me this and God told me that." ? I have, because I am only human as you.The spirit will bear witness and confirmation will come to verify the truth.There are times that I would have liked to believe the best about someone,and then have been devastated to find out that I was too trusting. One can't go through life continually like that. Sometimes lessons are learned the hard way. Sometimes we are disappointed. However, God in his ultimate omnipotent power and love gathers us up in his arms,leads, guides and shelters us and does it ever so gently. Sometimes you just have to clear your head of your own thought,examine your own heart, and clear out all of the voices of the imps that are defending the devils that are prospering for themselves and have built a kingdom that has gone to the "pitts".It a sorrowful disgrace and many are hurt, but on thing that I have realized is all the time I was going through a tragedy of one kind or other, I became a better person for what I came through and you will be a much wiser person for the lesson that you have learned. You will be able to take all the wisdom and knowledge that you have gained in your experience. Take what the enemy has done and turn it around on him and use it for the glory of God to further His Kingdom. Be as wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove. The thief cometh to kill steal and destroy. He will reap what he has sown. LORD HAVE MERCY ON THEIR "POOR" SOULS. They are given much mercy and grace and I pray that TRUE REPENTANCE comes speedily. They certainly need to redeem their time. Sinners in the hands of an angry God? This is even more severe, cc staff ,members and others in association of the knowledge and corruptness.I wonder how long some will continue to be spectators and cheerleaders for corruptness. Don't keep sweeping the trash under the rug. When the rug is pulled out from under them the dirt is going to hit the MP fans.It will be pure literal Hell to pay for.NEVER FEAR - to them if they will repent
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link to the Brian Carn video. Wow. God doesn't need any help and it just amazes me that there are those who would mislead others in "the name of the Lord", pretending to know something like someones name or address. I bet if people go back and review videos of Brian Carn services, they would catch him doing this, since this is obviously the only way he gets the information. This link doesn't surprise me at all, since I witnessed it firsthand at Cornerstone. And that was before I was even skeptical. It caught me by surprise, and then i just was disappointed. MP used to preach (YEARS AGO--i been there for 23yrs)about people who follow around these false prophets for the signs and wonders--i.e. oil coming from their hands, dove feathers (holy spirit)falling etc--and now, it all has come full circle. Ironic that almost everything I have ever heard him preach about or against, seems to be all that Cstone is about anymore. Sad.BTW, i saw you deleted LC's comment, but the scripture attached was excellent! Ps 12? Great scripture about what Cstone seems to be doing to its own sheep.
ReplyDeleteSelah....
To Grateful
ReplyDeleteI do not have…nor have I ever had any problem with authority or structure. I do have a problem with being viewed as a dollar sign. I do not think it is appropriate that when a person wants to volunteer that their finances should have anything to do with that. Would you agree?? Also, a leader is supposed to lead and lead by example...I don't think for any minute that you want your child following that example. I was there for the 1st one and that I believe most people were able to forgive him for. Then #2 comes along and he never mentioned it at all. I was gone by then, but a few of my closest friends were still there. I trust those friend and they have no reason to tell me untrue stories. From what I heard it was NEVER mentioned! I mean are you kidding me! Then mean and downright nasty letters mailed to members RE: PMack. Who does that?? Then to call us people who left the church snakes and rats! I find that a little unsettling! Really it is neither here nor there. I left and it was the best decision I could have made for myself. After I left I actually became better at managing my finances which made me often wonder if anything had to do with the spirit of greed that CC had?!? Just a thought! If you trust your "Bishop” I do not think you would be taking the time to read all of these posts. I think that you need to listen to that still small voice that I believe is speaking to you. I believe the entries on here are real and people’s way of coping with a lot of hurt, anger, humility, distrust and manipulation. As for myself...I left 6 years ago and am just realizing how angry I am and how disgusted this all makes me feel. It is a total process and I wish I would have dealt with it then. God is working it out in me though. I am FREE and NOT bound…BLESSED and NOT cursed!!
Please be patient with us, as Blogspot has recently increased their spam filter. Sometimes a comment looks like it "posted" and then it disappears. We then have to manually approve it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as LC's comment on Ps 12. Obviously, no problems with folks posting scriptures or their opinions on those scriptures.
However, with the amount of traffic and comments...we want to keep it tight and stay on topic.
Thanks for your understanding.
I can identify with so many of the feelings and thoughts expressed here.
ReplyDeleteIt does take time to "DETOX" your spirit and your soul from this type of environment, so BE PATIENT.
First of all, you need to lay down on the altar everything you have received or been taught and ask God to burn up anything that was not of Him - and don't be suprised if you discover many sacred cows that you once bowed your knee to going up in flames.
Some of the things I've learned during this process(and not entirely in this order) is:
1) Looking back to learn from your mistakes (like being a man pleaser instead of a God pleaser) is healthy, but don't look back longing for what could have been or should have been, for this will only paralyze you. Remember Lot's wife?
2) Forgive those who disappointed you and betrayed your trust ...most likely they are more deceived than you were.
3) Forgive yourself. Don't lament over the years that seem wasted. God will redeem this time as you submit it to Him.
4) Be grateful for what you have learned during this journey and the people He allowed to be in your life. We can glean something from every situation in life (even the negative).
5) Repent (change your way of thinking). This may take a little time, as you are allowing the Lord to clean sweep your "hard drive" from doctrines contrary to His Word. Allow Holy Spirit to be your teacher (that's why the Father sent Him) and bring understanding to the Word of God.
6) Seek a place, group or people that are "Christ" centered, not man centered. Any place that is about the "one man/woman show" is not where the Spirit of God is moving. Connect with those who are equipping the saints instead of gathering people to themselves.
8) Journal your thoughts, and questions to the Lord and record His answers. You think you will remember the treasures He shows you in the darkness, but in time you may forget.
There is more, but this is enough to share at this time.
Love & Prayers as we all move forward following our Beloved ~ Jesus Christ.
To Speaking the Truth in Love...
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this link!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHRuvolls80
Wow! How incredibly obvious was Brian Carn in that video. He looks at her check, sees her name, then pretends the Lord is speaking to him about her. He even turns back and says: "Yes Lord..." like God was giving him a message. This behavior can't even be defended by his own supporters without looking foolish. Prophetic??? I think not.
To Guess Who: Loved your comment. I reposted it below..only so we could KEEP it. (No harm no foul on the language.) I just wanted you to know why it was reposted below -Thanks for your genuine honesty! =)
ReplyDeleteguess who said...
ReplyDeleteHey Kids!
There are a few things I ran across in all of this reading I want to address.
1. REVELATION
Things are shown to us when we are ready to accept them. Whether it is divine, the cosmos in general, our own human psychology - it is what it is. Again, there are many of us who have pulled away and are getting clear heads. Others are reading all of the allegations (Good Lord - have you seen Toledo Talk???) - and still some are wondering where the (----) they have been for 20 years. Well, we are all waking to the land of the living. There is nothing to be angry about or ashamed of.
2.INSANITY
Be prepared. Everyone is about to deny EVERYTHING. That is my prophecy! (heh) It is also text book. And when people you love come to you in tears swearing to God and on their mother's grave that it isn't true, as a human being, I believe we want to believe what we hear. Fear not - the key is matching words to actions. Watch and Pray, as the Bible says. And know that you aren't crazy; it is crossed signals that are crazy making. Time is a gift. All things will be revealed.
3. FORGIVENESS
It is VERY important to define what this is for yourself. I cannot stress this enough in terms of recovery. If forgiveness is something like erasing all memory of an offense without working out the emotions or confronting the issue, you are destined to revisit this little town.
I start by stating that forgiveness is letting go of the need for revenge and forgiveness is the self promise to work hard to "let go." I will never forget. EVER.
We are allowed to be sad, angry, hurt, frustrated - we allowed to cry and even wallow in self pity for a while. Feelings are feelings. They are sign posts to show us where we are in our journeys and they allow us to know what needs work. There is no "SPIRIT OF ANGER" sitting on you. You are simply ANGRY. Chances are old angers are mixed up in there too. It is our job to sort all of it out, discuss it, work on it, etc.
4. The blog author stated:
>When we are abused, we look for a "savior" -one who promises to guard and protect us once again. Where we can feel “safe” and “not ashamed.” When this new protector falls asleep on the job, we feel violated all over again –do we not?<
As an abuse survivor, I have to say this is a slippery slope. I can't say I look for a savior. My problem is wanting ultimate independence as opposed to interdependence. I can say that when something feels familiar, it feels like "home." It is comfortable and at first there is a feeling of belonging. I also am guilty of the "Savior" thing - unfortunately, it is in terms of Dues ex Machina being lowered from the skies to pluck me out of my situations.
Here is the thing: I play a role in this. I am not blaming "the victim." Plus - I am not a victim unless I accept that role. I know my weaknesses - for the most part. I know exactly what attracted me. I know exactly what triggered me. Hind sight is beautiful. And these experiences go into my mental rolodex and I hope to GOD to walk some stuff out so that I will not repeat this AGAIN.
Don't look for a savior. Learn to save yourself.
5) Bosky said: Sometimes going back to the familiar for a co-dependent is not the best choice. They may need some time to heal in a different setting.
Different playground, different playmates. You got it.
As for Derrik not wanting to answer questions to someone who is anonymous... ok -
This is Penny. You can always talk to me. Here's the thing, though -
Regardless of what you would say - there is always the question of whether I would believe it. There is also the issue that I just don't care either way. I got enough of my own (----)to worry about. I'm not going to worry about yours.
It isn't your business what I think of you. It isn't my business what you think of me. It's called healthy detachment. Folks on all sides need to embrace it.
HEY - I am NOT Speaking Truth in Love -
ReplyDeleteAlthough the above post looks as tho I am.
At least I don't think I am. Unless my meds stopped working - HAR.
Anyway - I'm just me. Penny. Not Truth in Love -
this is not my Blog.
Please dont' toilet paper my house.
This is pretty eye opening. The officer searches him and reaches into his right pocket three times. His response is jaw dropping.
ReplyDeletePLEASE leave this up. This may help those trying to leave to see the matter of fact in way he responds.
Go to: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061223/NEWS02/612230426/-1/NEWS
Click on: VIDEO
• View this edited portion of The Rev. Michael Pitts' traffic stop from a 20-minute long DVD supplied by the Ohio State Highway Patrol.
To Anon 12:41 am:
ReplyDeleteWe need for you to share with others: HOW did this video help you?
Thanks! Please try to use a "name" when posting comments friend. It just makes life easier for everyone who would like to refer back to you.
RE: ARREST VIDEO:
ReplyDeleteHow does this help? It helps to OPEN EYES! At the very lest it will show members who are still there to give checks, not cash!
This is not the way a man of God carries money, or talks about money. How does he answer the question, "What are you doing with all this money? His answer? "I spend it." That is an ongoing answer. It implies that he always has wads of cash and it is not unusual because "he's not a credit card kind of guy." Looks like all cash donations go straight into his pocket.
How does that help me? It knocks that man right off his pedestal and down to, well I don't want to judge him. God will do that.
Please Read:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.spiritualabuse.org/introduction.html
excerpt:
Abusive churches are often performance oriented, with an "us verses them" or elitist mentality. Questioning is often discouraged, forbidden, or branded as a sign of rebellion or lack of spirituality, though this may not be said directly. Those who do not follow the rules may be labeled, shunned, shamed, or removed from church positions or even disfellowshipped.
You may not be allowed to confront or question those in leadership as they are "God's anointed". Members are taught that only God is to handle situations in which leadership may have done wrong.
I want to make a comment here. I may as well seeing as how I was a Cornerstone member many years. I left a few years ago. I will never forget the last time I was there. I had on a yellow dress. It was a Sunday morning. Pastor Pitts was in rare form and was being very "in your face" Every one was laughing at what he was saying and clapping.I felt sad. I felt like to sit and keep listening to the message of " if you don't like it there is the door" I was not being true to who I was. I stood up...and walked out yellow dress BLARING my departure. I couldn't sneak out...LOL.
ReplyDeleteSad day. My husband stayed in that service...but I know he knew I would not be coming back in there.
We had been loyal workers over the years but when we went with questions to Robert we were put down and told " you are only sheep and sheep don't have the right to ask... they follow." He even went so far as to say He was our spiritual head not Michael. To which my husband strongly disagreed.
We are only sheep..
So not long after we quit going...we lost friends. Not long after that, our marriage ended. I was told by some members that was because we were out from under "headship".
I don't think that had anything to do with it. I saw marriages under "headship" ending...so that logic doesn't fly with me. Marriage ended.
Anyhow, I am not going to pretend that I know a whole lot, because I don't. But I do think I know when something is "just not right". I think I know when our friends the Martinez's were not sent off with blessing and lied about that that is wrong.
I am Amy Estes. Formerly Amy Sumler. I will not hide my name here. Why bother? So I say with all honesty and love, that I have met so many good people because of my time at Cornerstone and for that I will be always thankful. I take what I have learned and am moving forward. Making mistakes, making decisions, making progress, and making God look at me and nod his head saying " you're doing fine Amy " keep walking.
My response to watching the video this time was 180 degrees from the first time. The first viewing, my opinion was "they are just picking on "pastor", so what if he had a few drinks, the money, he's "pastor". During the time of this stop, my focus was God,His presence,His Spirit, His Word and doing that which is pleasing in His sight, so I tended not to pay much attention to much else.
ReplyDeleteThe second viewing however, I was sadden watching because I had to once again admit my judgment of his character was wrong, not from the video alone, but rather All of the personal interactions with this man and "connecting the dots" and from testimony of others.
My personal experience include the message from 10/10/10 @ 10am this message was directed at those of us (ME)who had written questions of concern. Asked questions because of your concern and were withdrawing from church because of the lack of adherence to the word of God. The following quotes.
1."The person you’re trying to distract is no longer available I’ve already shifted" (but MP, you asked me how I was doing and I told you the truth)
2."If you’re leaning in you go in if you’re leaning out you miss it" (i was pulling back if any of you remember, I played for praise & worship, but I would not return as MP preached)
3."I think that our pastors should not meet and try to fix anything for anybody in this next month that weren’t in the meetings, cause we’re wasting our time. God can do something for you in a moment that which you just want to keep talking to people about". (Not Sorry for being honest with you)
(This next one is one of the flags "B CarAL" was referring to that god said he was removing)
4."If you can’t hear God you’re not listening to me and if you won’t let God fix it since you won’t hear me, the only thing you have the potential to do is to disturb me, and I will not be disturbed because I’ve already shifted".
5."The same people that always gotta talk to me or you guys are the same people that say we got to her God for ourselves, we don’t need no man"
And my favorite
6."It ain’t about you and it never was"
7."If you can’t talk to me about what God is doing leave me alone, if you can’t talk to me about the power of God, do not disturb me, if you can’t talk to me about what God is doing in our generation I ain’t got time for it, because I’ve already shifted" (IF you have the DVD of this service you will see him come over past me running as though "the power" was all on him, this was the ultimate display of flesh)
This one was aimed for my heart, but it only hit my guitar.(whew!)
8."There are other people they’re not trying to hear from God, they’re trying to write a hit"
(anyone who knows me, know that I right music and have produced several Songs and 5 CDs for the church)
So as I watched, ALL of this playing back in my head and I thanked God for healing the pain from words which were meant to destroy.
Everyone of the incidents with mp, if re-reviewed would yield greater incite to his personal dysfunction, because we now have the truth of our experiences to paint a picture which speculation could never paint.
ReplyDeleteto those of you who remain in the house, here are something to check for:
1.Does your heart race at the though of asking a sincere truthful question to MP or RP?
2.Are you answering the questions even though you haven't asked them to that person yet?
3.Are you in the middle of praise & worship and praise & worship is not on your mind?
4.Find you self lost in thought(church issues)not paying attention during the message?
5.Do you cringe each time money is mentioned?
6.Have you pulled back on tithing and offering
7.Do you wonder why the focus is ALWAYS out of the country(schools, hospitals,wells and A-21), when the same issues are here at home?
8.Have you ever thought about visiting ministry which has fallen and asked why the association in the first place?
9.When you see those of us on the street who no longer attend do you get nervous?
Let me be one of many to tell you, if you think I am venting on this blog, you could not further from the truth. The Truth is, the issue and my concern is for you, I am telling you if you've experienced any of these thoughts or had any of these or similar question. Your time there won't get better, because you'll NEVER get answered and the pain will grow worse. Even the lepers said "why sit we here until we die?"
I'm also testifying of how God, Healed the pain, repaired my connection with him, Defined what was not clear, restored the zeal, truly the heavens are open over my life because the constricting spirits have been removed.
God is...,why not let him do what he said he'd do.
if you stay because of your position is your position God?
if you stay because of your kids is your kids God?
if you stay because of the music is the music God?
if you stay because you fear losing something... IS HE GOD?
Wow ALL that from A Video!!!!! Thanks ANON!
@Amy you go Gurl!!!
ReplyDeleteTo Amy:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing openly with us friend! Anyone who knew you (at all) while at Cornerstone, knew how infectious your cheerful personality was.
You have taken what "could have" shipwrecked your faith...and chose to allow God to put the pieces back together again -His way. Our TRUE IDENTITY is in Jesus Christ –He is THE beloved Cornerstone.
Again, thank you for Speaking the Truth in Love! Your “yellow dress” is still making a statement.
To Leroy “The Guitar Player”:
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to care. Isn’t it amazing the GRACE to be yourself, and love others that just begins to overflow --AFTER leaving?
You are correct, some may "characterize" as a means to deflect --but I say to those individuals...TRUTH always outlives a lie. Truth takes most by “surprise”. No long-term, dedicated member sits around looking for a reason to leave. Nor do they leave a church they attended for 14 yrs. or more of their LIFE, simply because they didn’t “get their way” and/or were “offended”. I suppose the 5 PASTORS and now several other STAFF MEMBERS that are no longer there –they were all offended and “off” too, right??
Again (as we can clearly read in the above quotes from Michael Pitts) –this is NOT the attributes of a True Shepherd. More of a “Part-time cop in a small town” –Barney Fife type. You can tell A LOT about a person, by simply watching their LOVE WALK with others. Again, judge the FRUIT….
Thank you for taking the time to post those spoken words in a place where others can read them and think objectively for themselves.
This is all apart of an OPEN DIALOGUE –SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER FIND AT CORNERSTONE CHURCH. (As so eloquently shown by our friend Leroy.)
I wasn't there for the first scandal, but I didn't believe the allegations because I didn't think anybody could be that stupid.
ReplyDeleteI just saw the arrest video. Maybe somebody could be that stupid. Or maybe he was just bringing those huge wads of cash to the poor.
If MP had spoken out about EL instead of leaving everyone in the dark about HOE, or if he hadn't put RP and DT in time out for two weeks with no explanation, then I wouldn't have gone to the internet looking for answers.
A man reaps what he sows. MP might have read that somewhere. But since his sermons are usually based on two or three words, that might be TMI.
@Amy - You know I love you! I remember that yellow dress. Too bad you didn't have your squeeky clown shoes on too. THAT would have been FUNNY. I always wanted to make my exit by swan diving into the congregation off of the balcony. Alas, some dreams never come to pass.
ReplyDelete@Leroy - "If you can’t hear God you’re not listening to me and if you won’t let God fix it since you won’t hear me, the only thing you have the potential to do is to disturb me, and I will not be disturbed because I’ve already shifted."
In my recovery - there is no "fixing." There is "process." And even in the most spiritual sense - God doesn't "fix" because I am responsible for actually DOING SOMETHING to turn myself around. He is there -- ALWAYS.
Listening to man's voice, unless it is filled with experience, strength and hope, isn't worth hearing. I haven't shifted - I am growing. Maybe I will shift one day. Maybe I am shifting and that's why I have hot flashes. I'm not sure I even know what it means. One Day at a Time is a better bumper sticker for me.
Robert, when talking to me about my pathetic tithing (he gets the human resources' cuddly teddy bear award), told me the tithe was between me and God. The 2nd time he talked to me he was unamused and quite terse about the whole situation. Between me and God. I am still confused.
I am one of the spiritually off staff. Wait - I am one of the spiritually off X staff. But I knew that I was spiritually off going into the whole Christian scene. That's why I need Jesus. DUH! *snort*
Do not disturb. I'm working on myself.
I love reading this blog, all the comments, this is what church is supposed to be about, open, honest, real. Thanks, you all give me hope :)
ReplyDeleteShift DOES happen. But they spelled it wrong! It hits the fans!
ReplyDeleteI almost went to see what he would have to say. Are all these men corrupt? Where is a man of God with sound doctrine? My soul hurts right now.
ReplyDeleteLooks the Duncan Billians had the SAME message again this visit. Unfortunately, a lot of it was unscriptural. Where is the discernment??
ReplyDelete--Just "BIND THE DEVIL", and God will keep "Bishop" and Robert from having ISSUES. Really??
• WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THIS??
(We ARE to bear one another’s burdens and pray for ALL our bros./sis. in Christ. However, each individual has to FOR THEMSELVES –become disciplined; bringing their own flesh into subjection.)
For those who still read their Word:
•1Co 9:27 “But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”
(Hmm…I could have given Michael and Bobby that Word, without charging $40k to appear in Toledo to do so.)
--He recommended the members merely "cover-up" the issues of the "house". That's what God did for Adam and Eve, right?!!
•NOT----Adam and Eve were the ones who sought to cover themselves up with fig leaves. (Having the appearance of “fruit”.)
•God ultimately provided a covering of SKIN for them --BECAUSE He would ultimately send Christ in skin, to provide an atonement for the sin of mankind. This IS why Christ came to die on the cross in the first place. So, God was NOT implying that "sin be covered up", but rather a COVER-ING [JESUS] Himself be provided as the propitiation for our sins. (Sunday School 101)
•I’d rather be covered in righteousness, than to think someone else can “simply cover” me in my sin. This is deception at its finest.
--Duncan Billians also said he believes the current exposing of “ministers” within the Body, is NOT God exposing them. That it is just an “attack” of the devil. Really?? When will folks get tired of hearing this ridiculous excuse???? (Yawn)
•Well, what about the scripture “GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN ME, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD”?!! and are we not “MORE THAN CONQUERERS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our Lord”??
•The best of us are put through trials (of course), but we come out BETTER on the other side. Hello somebody?
I suppose God just winks at wolves in platforms and when they are finally exposed to the point of NOT being able to hide it from the public….God must've ran out of steam and couldn’t stop the devil from his attacks against the “man of Gawd”.
Folks –aren’t you so glad to be FREEEEEEEEEE?!!
"I’m telling you, I’m telling you, church” –No, I AM TELLING YOU….
ReplyDeleteJeremiah 6:14-19--
“They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially,
Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’
But there is no peace.
“Were they ashamed because of the abomination they have done?
They were not even ashamed at all;
They did not even know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time that I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the LORD.
--Thus says the LORD,
“STAND BY THE WAYS AND SEE AND ASK FOR THE ANCIENT PATHS,
WHERE THE GOOD WAY IS, AND WALK IN IT;
And you WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.--
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
“And I set WATCHMEN over you, saying,
‘Listen to the sound of the trumpet!’
But they said, ‘We will not listen.’
“Therefore hear, O nations,
And know, O congregation, what is among them.
“Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people,
The fruit of their plans,
Because they have not listened to My words,
And as for My law, they have rejected it also.
HOLY SHIFT!!!!! I knew why I left (many reasons, all discussed on here) but the video of "Prophet" CarnAL makes me soooo angry!!! I cannot wrap my brain around all the deceit that's taken place in that house of God...and I'm sure many other churches. God must be crying. For those who lost their way, for his sheep who went to a sacred place..a place they should be able to TRUST!! Many of us have had many hurts and deceit in our pasts. How pathetic - predators, lying spirits, false teachings, false doctrines, false prophets, gross sin, so many secrets and cover-ups...in the church. A "Bishop" who, when you see who he really is, is lacking in love. Look at his fb posts. What kind of Pastor or Bishop who walks in the love of GOD says any of those things? He slips up and it just comes out sometimes.
ReplyDeleteFriends at CS - please ask God to reveal truth to you. Then when He tells you to go...RUN! Listen to HIS voice and no one else's.
I'm so thankful for this site because it gives me HOPE that I will get over this. Every time I think I'm over it, there it is again. Forgiveness is so important but it's been a process. I need to read some of these books, thanks for the recommendations.
To "Sick to my stomach":
ReplyDeleteYep, me too after I listen to scripture being twisted for the sake of sheering the sheep. Placing "seeds of a person's current age" into the offering plate; after placing it first in their Bible along side the correlating chapter number in Psalms. (if your age 52, then place $52 in the 52nd Book of Psalms). Witchcraft --it is what it is.
Don't be discouraged friend, a great falling away WILL [and has already begun] as foretold in scripture --but the Church will yet see its finest hour!! How the light will shine in the darkest of places!
The term 'falling away', or as it is called in some texts, 'apostasy' means; to depart from revealed truth, to lead away, seduce, mislead; to defect, to blind the eyes of the people by manipulating the truth; to turn one from the truth by lying signs and wonders.
--BE ENCOURAGED friend, TRUE God-fearing ministers are out there! Remember when Elijah thought he was the “last prophet God had.” :)
GREAT post, Speaking Truth, on Jeremiah 6:14-19.
ReplyDeleteIf I could ask questions to the "Arch Bishop" they would be:
ReplyDeleteDo you read this blog or are you informed by MP of what he'd like you to address?
Are you calling the reproach of sin (iniquity) an "attack" of the enemy?
Could the "attack" (your words) which the church is going through, be caused by lifestyle of iniquity which opened the door of reproach?
Are you aware that ALL visiting ministry has said so much about covering and forgiveness of leaders and leadership has not confessed ANYTHING?
The covering which took place in the garden with Adam; Before he was covered he was Questioned, held Accountable, Penalized and then restored. is ALL of that no longer necessary?
Do you think the church of today will ever do things God's way?
Will the Gospel ever be free AGAIN?
If I had access, these are just some of the questions I would ask, oh well, time will tell.
Tic.Toc.Tic.Toc
>>Duncan Billians also said he believes the current exposing of “ministers” within the Body, is NOT God exposing them. That it is just an “attack” of the devil.<<
ReplyDeleteActually, in terms of REALITY - it's called "CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS." Therapy 101. Unless he was insinuating that it is merely the gossip of man and none of it is true. The devil is spreading rumors. That's funny! He must be hanging out in that front office.
I took my lovely daughter to see Duncan Williams at one of the HoE downs. He was having us all yell "OPEN MY HEAVEN!" to get our due blessings. My daughter thought he said, "OPEN MY OVEN!"
At the top of her voice she was shouting, "OPEN MY OVEN!!!" I laughed so hard I cried. I explained what was going on and she said, "I was wondering why I wanted God to open my oven!"
BEST HEAVEN ON EARTH EVER.
When did they do this money thing with the age and the page? If I had seen that I would have RUN to the exit! THAT IS WITCHCRAFT! I am beyond sick! Get me a bucket!
ReplyDeleteWhat makes the transgressors think that they are exempt from being exposed for their sins. Jesus was stripped of his robe and had to suffer and die and have his sinless body set in the eyes of the public to see. Even Adam and Eve had enough about them that they tried to cover their nakedness. Who do they think they are? Not one of them would be willing to give their life for the sheep. They probably would sell their own soul to the devil for $. There is a lot more than just the money. There are hurt people and lost souls involved as we all can see and this blog is reaching out to. From the head to the foot,accountability falls.We can't keep silent and keep petting their demons. NO, the devil did not make them do it. They chose their own paths and there isn't any place that they can hide or get a plea bargain or even buy themselves off. M.P. had a great sermon that I heard a few years ago. It was about not petting your demons. I would like to thank him for that sermon(however we were not suppose to approach our "pastor"). He was placing himself on a "higher level" Even the woman with the issue of blood touched his garment and He healed her.Those demons that M.P.was talking about have been petted and submitted to so much,that they have grown larger and larger and evey time they are bringing in an even larger one to destroy what God had planned for such a great work.The shepherd has allowed this by not caring for the sheep.Sheep are very important. If there were no sheep there would be no purpose for a shepherd. There is a place for all in God's kingdom. You are very important. You have been wonderfully created for such a time as this.Be not dismayed, be strong and don't fear because GOD is still on the throne,and he has the final word,not the abuser. Give no place to the devil.When all else fails, continue standing with the devil under your feet.
ReplyDeleteWhat helped me most after leaving a little more than two years ago was "by happenstance" running into many CS members and finding out that they, too, were "former" CS members. We'd briefly share our stories in the aisles of Walmarts; Meijers; at other churches that I was visiting, etc.-- this was the initial way that I believe the Lord brought clarity and comfort to me about my decision to leave. The Lord showed me that I wasn't alone (and I wasn't "off" and imagining stuff). On a lighter note -- HoE Downs; Holy Shift; Shift Happens; Duncan Billions; Open My Ovens ~ Thank you for bringing a smile to my face -- A merry heart is like medicine. I'm not insinuating that what's happening at CS is funny -- it's tragic -- especially for those who are still there. I pray that they, too, will find a reason to smile once they embrace the truth and leave.
ReplyDeleteTo AB:
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing friend! You are right. That is exactly why the blog was created --seeing how beneficial those seemingly "divine chance encounters" were increasingly becoming. Everyone has questions for one another –open dialogue provides those answers.
Sharing and identifying with others (who experienced similar situations) is a VITAL part of processing things in a healthy way. I always encourage people NOT to bottle up their feelings –talk, talk, talk it out!
And how right you are! A healthy dose of humor, keeps a well-balanced perspective indeed! And thank God for it!
Thanks again for sharing what helped you!! I'm glad to hear you’ve enjoyed reading the blog --God Bless!
A word of encouragement, too all the redeemed of the Lord. Jesus promised to build His church. He still has superintendence over all that belong to Him.
ReplyDeleteIn Revelation ,in the first of three visions that John had, we find letters to seven churches. The first was Ephesus. In the exhortation from Jesus, He commended their work,labor,patience and their unwillingness to tolerate evil. The greatest compliment was that they tried men who claimed Apostleship and found them to be liars.
pt.2 In ch.2:3 For the Lords name sake they had labored and had not fainted. Then Jesus speaks directly too the fact they had left their first love. He commanded repentance and a return to their first works. Since Jesus is not a first works, they had not departed from Him.
ReplyDeleteIn they face of fierce persecution they lost their capacity to love their fellow man. John 13:35 says disciples are known for their love one to another. My long point is that, their is no evil in trying the spirit of a ministry, just don't grow weary in well doing and faint.
The church at Ephesus did not faint in their unrelenting battle with false Apostles. They just forgot to do it in Love.
pt.3 I remember something Duncan Williams said at heaven on earth when the hurricane hit New Orleans. He said he was in St. Thomas or somewhere,and stepped onto a balcony and commanded the storm to turn and miss the Island he was on. My question has always been, if God granted you the Grace to divert a storm. Then why wouldn't you send it back out to sea, and save the lives of countless innocent people, instead of selfishly using that Grace for self preservation?
ReplyDeleteJesse Duplantis made similar claims concerning his power to cause the storm to miss his church.
WOW so your church building and personal ministry was more important than the people in the city you pastor.
I love everyone, but I certainly doubt by the junk some folks are selling.
Have a great day it's yours too enjoy.
Put Christ first and it will work out.
All things belong to me?
ReplyDeleteThe future belongs to me?
Eschatology?
God wants my input on what should happen?
Because Christ belongs to me?
This guy is completely bonkers!
Can I get a witness?
I normally enjoy MC but have always thought he was too "windy". Last night I had a hard time following him and even MP looked bored (but then again he did during Jakes too, who was great).
ReplyDeleteChironna bills himself as a “theologian, a trained and certified personal coach, a mentor, a spiritual director, a physician of the soul.”
ReplyDeleteWhat is he doing at a midnight prayer service?
I have no words to describe the message he was giving. I am dumbfounded, which is how MP looked after Chironna spoke, or rather rambled. Choir members looked stunned and confused. Even RP looked like he wanted to dive off the platform!
Nothing is making any sense at Cornerstone. The Stone is falling further and further away. Is everybody in the building out to lunch?
To WHAT????:
ReplyDeleteWhen you build something by the FLESH, you then have to continue maintaining it by the FLESH. When something is continually built by the SPIRIT, it is therefore upheld and sustained by the SPIRIT. Which are you seeing?
I'm afraid the shepherd at 1520 Reynolds Rd., has left his post. When the shepherd is not guarding the sheep nor caring for them --then the gate is wide open for the wolves to come in. Which also leaves a big “welcome mat” out for other ministers with their OWN agendas. And self-serving/greedy “ministers” (looking only to build their name) LOVE to flock to churches who allow the doors to remain “wide open”.
There are many "men of God" out there who are willing to sell their soul for the right price. In exchange they receive their moment of fame. And appear to have a Word from God --but in reality they are doing nothing more than presenting "damage control" messages to the sheep of the house. Again, who is guarding the sheep? Perhaps a wolf himself. Selah
Something to Consider:
When a ship begins to tragically sink –the Captain will either do 1 of 2 things:
1) He will be HONEST with himself and others. Admitting the wrong course he’s been sailing and his personal responsibility for THOSE decisions. Seeking to save as many as possible.
–OR-
2) In desperation and “self-preservation”, he will refuse to face the music and either ABANDON SHIP altogether or FURTHER IGNORE the warning signs and continue his course without concern as to the mass causalities that will follow.
I realize this is a shock to some --but this is exactly what the Word says happens when a Pastor begins to run his ministry, like a BUSINESS -(HIS WAY). The Glory of the Lord departs from that house -Ichabod.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, this is exactly what has happened to Cornerstone over the years. ROBERT PITTS IS NOT A PASTOR –period. He should have left to pursue his personal “business ventures” a long time ago. Sure, contributing advice is fine..seeing as he has a talent for that. However, structuring himself as a Pastor –there is no fruit of this. And our beloved Michael has forgotten his post as a true shepherd. Allowing the "fox" to guard the hen house. Sad story by true. See below….
Israel, as a nation, knew the glory of God's presence among them. The children of Israel prospered and became strong as they followed the Lord. However, Israel turned from God by making wrong choices. Eventually, they came to the place where the presence of God was no longer among them. The glory of God had departed.
In a desperate attempt to win a battle with the Philistine army, Israel devised a plan. The leaders actually believed that if they took the Ark of the Covenant with them to battle that God was obligated to lead them to victory.
Such was not the case. God DID NOT fight for Israel. Israel was DEFEATED and the Philistines triumphed and even took the ark.
When a messenger returned from the battlefield with the sad news that the army was defeated, the ark captured, and the two sons of Eli were dead, Eli fell backward off his chair, broke his neck and died.
Eli’s daughter-in-law, the wife of one of the sons killed in battle was pregnant. When she heard the news that her husband, brother-in-law and father-in-law were dead she went into labor. She gave birth to a son, but she died during the delivery. The Bible states that the woman who was acting as the midwife named the son—Ichabod.
“Ichabod” means the glory has departed. The Glory of God is not a “goosebump” felt while in Praise and Worship.
With a sincere and honest heart I say, “Read the WRITING ON THE WALL” friends.
What most definitely helped me when I first left was finding others who had left & feeling validated in what I was feeling & thinking after I first left & even in the process of leaving, as it was a slow & gradual process.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first left, I was definitely shell shocked & in disbelief of what I had been sitting under for nearly 2 decades of my life. I turned to my sister & her husband who were both pastors for guidance. After talking to her, & she & her husband had visited CStone many times through the years, I thought to myself, "I was in a cult". I just sat in utter disbelief that there was a name for much of the doctrine CStone headship adheres to (Dominion Theology/Kingdom Now Doctrine).
My sister & her husband too sensed a very different spirit in that house about 5 years ago & they never set foot in that place again. They merely continued to pray for me that my eyes would be opened.
My sister helped me to identify the false teachings Michael had been teaching for so long. I really needed wise counsel to help me undo the many false doctrines I had adhered to for years.
I also needed to talk to others who could relate to & identify my hurt, confusion, & utter disbelief of all that I had come to trust & believe in under Michael's "ministry".
What also helped was to pray & seek God on my own, in quietness & confidence which became my strength. I simply had to be still & know that He was God. I had to bask in His presence alone & let him wrap His arms of love & healing around my hurting heart & disbelieving mind. I had to read the Word for myself & I had to allow myself to open up to another pastor for guidance in seeking direction out of my hurt, pain & guilt for leaving. I soon learned that I felt guilty because there was guilt in the house @ CStone & that guilt gets put onto the members. It has to in order for Michael to keep control. That was certainly an aha moment.
So, this blog and other credible ones became a godsend in my healing & deliverance from the controlling & manipulating system called a church that I sat under for 18 plus years.
Keep on keeping on Speaking the Truth in Love. God is using this blog to bring healing & truth. & to allow a place for dialogue & validation to all that we experienced.
And to Leroy & Amy, God bless you truly for your honesty & openness. Perhaps one day soon I can be as open. I know you Amy & you would know me as I served in Synergy for years & before that in the School of the Bible. I always wondered what happened to you. I missed your bubbly contagious spirit. And Leroy, I never knew you personally, but you are one heck of a guitar player & one heck of a godly man for following God's leading in spite of all that it may have cost you.
And to Penny, God love you for your sense of humor which is much needed. You have a unique take on things in light of the personality & gifts God has given you. Keep speaking the truth in your unique style.
Perhaps one day, we can have a reunion of sorts. Until then love & hugs to all for your support & encouragement & prayers, but most of all for your truth & honesty. God's peace be yours for choosing the path of truth & following His leading in your lives.
To Confused No More:
ReplyDeleteOnce again…Thank you for sharing WHAT HELPED YOU after leaving Cornerstone. Your continual words of encouragement have been VERY beneficial for those reading the blog. You have such a gift to write friend!
We know that everyone’s journey forward may be processed differently and at different paces. Most of which depends upon “what” Cornerstone meant to them personally and how long they attended. However, the EMOTIONS felt during those individual journeys --are quite similar between everyone.
I am quite thankful for you and ALL THE OTHERS who have been reaching out to our commentors -in love. You have continued to help others, while still yet sorting through things yourself. And I have found that, helping others is just as much a blessing…as receiving the help yourself.
God Bless!!