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Monday, January 10, 2011

Finding the Heart... in Letting Go

"A Testimony of Faith" 
Article Submitted by Angela

I looked outside at the drizzling rain and it was as dreary as I felt. I never thought this would happen. I was confused; I was hurt, and most of all I was in shock. The day before, my husband and I had made a decision, not one that was based on a feeling or a hunch; we made a decision based only on our obedience to God. We were not offended or angry. I can honestly say, that at the time, everything on the inside of me was screaming, “No!!!” However, I knew that I had pledged my heart and my life to Christ; therefore, whatever was required of me -I was willing to do. Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you that we left Cornerstone Church and "just kept marching", because that would be a lie. It took many months to finally detox and heal from all of the unscriptural teaching, heavy shepherding and unhealthy programming. After four years, I feel healthier and happier than ever before.

You see for me, the decision to leave was simply made, but it wasn’t necessarily easy….it had a very heavy price. I had labored in ministry at Cornerstone Church for almost ten years. I was fully committed in six ministries throughout the years, some of them I was serving in simultaneously. I also worked full time for the Cherry St. Mission for two years, and volunteered there for several more.  Over those 10 years, I had countless opportunities to preach and teach God's word, for CC in the prison, drug and alcohol rehabilitation centers, at nursing homes and other churches.  Most of the people that I ministered to were of the Alcoholic/Homeless population --which became increasingly difficult to work with that particular population of people, considering the nature of scrutiny the whole church had been under for many years at that point. I can honestly say that I suffered tremendously at times because of the church I attended.  In spite of all that however, I was committed to following the plan that God had laid out for me, so I continued to keep my eyes forward….patiently allowing God to mold me into the person He had called me to be.  I knew that I had been called by God and that He had given me the heart of a Shepherd and that one day, I would have my own sheep to gently lead and guide.

With all that being said, you can imagine how I felt the moment our eyes were opened and we knew that God was leading us to leave -the very place we had devoted our hearts toward ministry for many years.  That day, I think I experienced what Abraham must have felt like when God told him to sacrifice his son, Isaac. I felt like my heart was torn apart. With everything in me, I lived and breathed ministry. Some people have friends that they hang out with, they have hobbies to occupy their time, and they spend their time with their families. These were all pleasures that I had almost totally denied myself of for ten years. In retrospect, I realize how unhealthy that was, but we were taught to “sow” into something bigger than yourself. Do this for God, and He will do that for you.  I was reminded of the countless opportunities that I had missed with other believers, times that I could have connected on an emotional level and been nourished by relationships. However, at that time, the only place my eyes were focused was on the “vision of the house.”
As I surrendered my will to God that day, and placed "my Isaac on the altar"…..knowing that in my case, I knew there would be no ram in the thicket. Here I stood with my raised dagger waiting to plunge it into the heart of my promise, the heart that beat so closely to mine, that it felt connected. To "sacrifice Isaac" meant putting to death the aspirations that God had given me the very first day I came to know Him. I had nourished this dream, I had cultivated it, and I had protected it. I held life or death in my hands at that moment in time. I went that day to the altar, which is a place of exchange. I gave Him everything, expecting nothing……that was my act of worship, to let my dream die, knowing that if God gave it to me, surely He could resurrect it if and when he saw fit. Scripture tells us that we must die to ourselves in order to fully follow Him. If He didn’t resurrect this promise, then it was never mine to begin with.
So, with a heavy heart... I walked away. I chose to follow God instead of my dream, my promise. I began to walk towards Christ and allow my life to be Christ centered and not gift or calling driven. In the last four years, I have grown by leaps and bounds as a leader and as a Christian. I have become more assured every day, that by sacrificing something so important, I let go and really gave God control.
Oddly enough though, I haven’t had to scratch and claw my way up the food chain so to speak. Opportunities to minister have come out of the woodwork. Any church that I attended, my leadership and ministry skills and experience were acknowledged immediately. I realized that I did not need someone to “release” me into ministry. I could assert myself to others, and they would not assume that I was “promoting” myself. Now, I am now helping to pastor a small church, and I love it. Every moment of hurt and confusion were worth the freedom I have! My RELATIONSHIP with my Father is not based on where I am "going", or what "doors" He is opening. It is based completely on my love for Him, the keeper of my soul. 
I look back at that time and remember all the pain and anxiety I felt. However, the priceless lesson I learned and taught my children was that I am the leader of my home. I set the tone and the atmosphere. I chose to stand in my place, championing the high standard of holiness. How could I expect my kids to follow Godly leadership if I was not following Godly leadership? I taught them that everybody should be accountable, and yes, our leadership should also be accountable to us. I was surprised beyond belief how my children’s personal faith flourished in another children’s ministry. I believe they did well with the transition because we chose to explain the truth of why we were leaving. I am also very thankful for the simplicity of the curriculum at Cedar Creek’s children’s program. It was just what my kids needed! Since that time, my son who was 8 year old at the time, accepted Christ and asked to be baptized. I have never been prouder.

It is my sincere desire that anyone who reads this will know that the road to recovery is a lot scarier than what it really is. It is painful at times, but true freedom always has a price. I paid that price, and because of that, I am sitting right in the palm of His will. God’s word tells us countless times, “be not afraid” and “fear not, for I am with you.” I hope and pray that your faith would grow some feet and take you on your own journey. At the end of the day, it’s not about being committed to following a pastor/bishop or a “house.” It’s about following Christ. He that the son sets free is free indeed!!"

75 comments:

  1. Telling It Like It isFebruary 2, 2011 at 11:08 AM

    Thank you for your honesty and hearfelt sharing.
    You simply & eloquently stated the truth in finding your heart in letting go.

    I am in the process of finding my heart through letting go. Not easy, but with God's help and keeping in mind that I am to follow Christ, not man, it all becomes easier.

    I loved your closing comment: "...it's not about being committed to following a pastor/bishop or a "house". It's about following Christ."

    True indeed as He is always to be our example and if any man's life does not exemplify or line up with God's Word, His nature & His character, he is not worthy of being called your pastor/bishop end of story. And once you realize that & Jesus sets you free from the bondage to a man's heavy handed shepherding, you will be free indeed.

    I pray that the eyes of everyone's understanding who are seeking direction on what to do will be opened to God's truth & leading, not man's. May you read with clarity the words of those who have truly been set free from the chains of MP & CStone's heavy handed leadership. May you find peace in letting go & break free from the chains that bind you to a man. May Jesus be the one and only true example that you follow for as Paul said,"Follow me as I follow Christ."

    When a pastor or bishop or church ceases to follow Christ, it is time to cease following them. Christ & Christ alone must be preached, not feel good messages about destinies & greatness, levels & anointings.

    Thank you again Angie for making it plain & keeping the truth simple & unadulterated.

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  2. Thanks for sharing Angela!

    I also have a testimony of faith, but I believe it came at a much higher price than it needed to. I was introduced to Christ by a dear friend at the age of 11. She invited me to church with her family, who were going through a rough time during the early years at Cornerstone. They sought counsel from the leadership and met with Pastor Robert. My friend said that Pastor Robert noticed me coming to church with them and inquired about me. I asked what he said about me. She reluctantly shared that he said I had emotional issues. He was right. I was raised in an abusive home and had to fight to earn the love of those that should automatically love you. Thank God the mother of the family I went to church with, despite her troubles, still took the time to minister the love of God to me and encouraged me to seek God. Pastor Robert never reached out to me as a child to offer encouragement or counseling. He may have taught some biblical principles from the pulpit, but was lacking in love and humility. I say that because even when he preached at times he came across arrogantly. The only time he approached me after serving at Cornerstone for 17 yrs was to tell me, "Looking good sis!"

    I fell in love with God at the age of 11 and have continued to seek Him over the years. I desired to serve in God's house and minister to people and did in a number of ministries as well. But for some reason never felt accepted or totally valued by those in leadership. I was extremely insecure. Though my heart was into everything I was doing and I believe God was touching people through my life, I never felt accepted in God's house (Cornerstone), not completely anyways.

    I left the church almost four years ago because Pastor Pitts was degrading Pastor Mack from the pulpit and other members that decided to leave. The verse that came to my mind while sitting there was, "Follow me as I follow Christ...” I talked to a leader in the house, prayed for a month and attended services and realized Pastor Pitts was using the word of God to try to manipulate people into not questioning his negative actions. Prior to this happening I simply said hi to one of the members who I knew very well before service and his response in an irritated tone was, "I'm doing ministry stuff right now!" I was totally taken back! I also had a man who I considered a friend come up to me and tell me how pretty I was and gave me a hug and kissed me on the mouth. He had a girlfriend and it was totally inappropriate and decided to talk to him about it. His response was, "You're lucky you’re my sister in Christ or I'd destroy you right now!" He didn’t think I should question him. I walked away in tears. I also experienced almost complete disregard for my feelings by another current member that I thought was my friend. They basically said, in a not-so-nice way that they had a lot going on in their life and I needed to deal with it. I shared all this to say that the lack of love and care demonstrated by some of the ministry leaders has become acceptable behavior for more than just a few members. It's sad and it definitely hurt my feelings. I know how to function with hurt feelings, but I don't think God brought me out of bondage to put me with a bunch of arrogant people that aren't being influenced by the love of God like they should. I know this is not everyone, but there's been a pattern.

    So, my testimony of faith is that I have continued to put my trust in Christ for my life and am developing a wonderful relationship with Him. I've also taken time to for myself and found hobbies I love. I've traveled, started paying off debt instead of feeling compelled to sow every last dime, and have made great friendships with Christian men and women where we sharpen one another in love. I'm also serving in a church and it feels loving and free in there without all the striving and hype to "break through" to get it!

    Praise God!

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  3. To Happy Now:

    Thank you for sharing YOUR Testimony of Faith on the HEART of the Matter!

    I am reminded of I Cor. 13--
    "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES...Love never fails."

    *Sometimes when Truth is initially delivered, it’s wrapped in a package of obscurity. (Jesus born in a Manger) But to those who behold its beauty, they will see the value despite the cost. For when you look into the eyes of Truth --your Position is changed, because your Perspective has been changed.

    And once Revelation hits you…it is impossible for you to be the same again. Even if you lie to yourself, your Heart knows the truth.

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  4. Angela - a very heartfelt and since message! I had great respect for your at the Stone and continue to respect your sincereity! Know that not all of us there agree with the treatment you unfortunately receieved! To God be the Glory for your breakthru! It took a lot of courage to step thru...I will inbox you on FB as I'm struggling to find the same courage ...how ...when you feel called to serve God (and you know your own heart)....how do you pick up the pieces and leave??? I do trust God, but I feel called to not abandon it all just yet...but I totally disagree with what is happening...it is an internal struggle...everyone on this blog is so sincere and I apprecaite the love that pours out!

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  5. Struggling,
    Thank you for your kind words :) I am so sorry that you are feeling this internal struggle. I feel very sad that you, according to your own words, feel you have to choose between serving God and being “called” not to "abandon it all". I am reminded of the verse in Joshua 24:15 “But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” I think it is important to remember, that it is always our CHOICE to serve God. We can set up gods in our own lives that may take shape in many forms....jobs, money, churches, relationships, or ANYTHING that comes before being devoted to God (which means following the teachings of Christ.) I will be first to admit that my promise, for a bit, was a god....it was in the forefront of my mind, more so than the Creator of that promise. But when I went to the scriptures for revelation instead of what "God was saying to Pastor/Bishop", I realized that I was not following Christ, I was following something else.

    The second thing that hit me like a ton of bricks was this....why did I have such a strong desire to minister? Was it because I genuinely loved people, or that I was trying to get to the next level? THIS IS WHERE I HAD TO DRAW THE LINE…...I knew that God had called me because of my heart and capacity to love people with complete abandon. (I have been told that my heart is big enough to do the backstroke in it :]) When I saw that I was starting to mimic the criteria of CC; for whom I gave my time and energy to, I realized how off base I was getting. We were taught to not "cast your pearls before swine." But yet, didn't Jesus reach out to us when WE were the swine. I never saw the shepherd hunting down the lost sheep at CC. Again, that is what Jesus taught.

    So struggling, I know it is a difficult position you are in. I hope and pray that you weigh your motives. God truly weighs those motives...If they are godly, great. If they are not godly, great....repent and turn the ship in the direction you are supposed to be going. It really is THAT simple. We make things way too difficult at times, it is commonly referred to as "the paralysis of analysis." Christ's teachings are easy to understand, it is the application of those teachings that most-times are difficult for us. Why? At the bottom of it all, we want whatever it is that WE want...just like a four year old. I, for one, am certainly guilty, so I am definitely NOT POINTING FINGERS!! It is simple, just not easy or comfortable. However long the process takes, is completely up to you. The good news is that your future is in your hands....you know what the bad news is? YOUR FUTURE IS IN YOUR HANDS. I love you and will be praying for you!! Be blessed and know that God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek HIM.

    Angela

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  6. @STRUGGLING
    Try not to "beat yourself up" over feeling torn. One thing that I KNOW - is that I had to be ready before I left. And that included emotionally.

    We can leave physically and still be attached. We can be present physically and already be gone. I believe God wants us to be ready. That is a process in and of itself. It has to do with looking closely at everything, putting a support system in place (or acknowledging the one you have) --

    But like Angela said, one has to be careful. It is easy to "get stuck" and stay in a holding patter just because it's easy.

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  7. All I can say is AMEN Penny. You said it just like it is, plain & simple about the struggle to leave.

    And yes, many who have left physically are still attached & stuck emotionally. And many who yet remain are already gone.

    It is a process & does require a support system for sure. You need to have, like AA & Alanon, & other programs, those to turn to who have walked a mile in your shoes.

    When you have those things in place it is much easier to let go. Otherwise, you will get stuck & keep holding on "business as usual", except for the fact that once your eyes have been opened, it isn't really business as usual. In the back of your mind is the nagging thought of what do I do now that I know? Do I stay or do I go? Can I help fix this or do I get out now knowing that another gospel is being preached? Knowing that my "headship" is not addressing anything?

    Tough questions which require leaning unto God & not your own understanding & when you do He alone will direct your paths, but you must take the step to follow His leading & trust in Him to work it all out for your good.

    God bless all as we journey forward in Christ alone.

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  8. Having trouble letting go. I still wake up every Sunday morning missing Cornerstone. I almost want to cry. Then I tune in online and hear MP start to preach. Today he starts off talking about spiritual gifts. Then goes off track. He isn't really going to talk about spiritual gifts. That's why I am looking for another church that will use my spiritual gifts.

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  9. @Anon 12:32PM - I just prayed for you. Indeed it is hard to unplug, but it is like anything else in life that is unhealthy. Starting a diet, beginning an exercise routine, quitting coffee, etc are all hard to do because we miss the feeling we were supplied by the unhealthy things. CStone is the same way. A huge step in moving on is to admit that "church" cannot be defined as CStone defined it. You will not find another church like CStone. There is no replacement. That is a good thing. You need a healthy church. A good place to grow. BUT, you must realize that the things you loved about CStone are NOT going to be present at your new church.

    When my family followed the Holy Spirit to leave I realized that I had to let God define what was healthy. I had to let him show me what healthy church was. In other words, I could not "paint" my visits of new churches with the experience of CStone. The church I am now a part of is INFINITELY more healthy than CStone. Because of that, it does not resemble CStone. You have to be willing to let God "reinvent" church for you.

    The things that were emphasized and trumpeted at CStone are out of balance, so I do not expect them where God has me now. The manipulation of people via the worship service is NOT going to happen at healthy churches. Be glad! It takes time to adjust.

    Know this, you HAVE to plug in. Leave CStone alone. If God moved you out, he moved you into somewhere else. That emptiness and longing is normal, but requires the vacancy to be filled in order to heal. If you are in Toledo, I recommend Cedar Creek or one of the churches listed on this blog. Join a small group. Let God speak to you via the radical difference found in the church. Be encouraged! The 1000s of us who have been lead away from CStone, have felt what you are feeling, and we can all testify that not only do those feelings fade, but we are so very glad to be free now!

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  10. Side note: The network churches (i.e. denomination) are polluted with the CStone doctrine. While they may not be abusive (some are), please check the doctrine you are sitting under. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to show you in his word IN CONTEXT if what you are hearing is true. There are plenty of good people in the network churches, and as I've said on this blog before, no one starts off with wrong intentions. That is why the biblical example of leaven is used. However, the network churches carry the common thread of CStone and the infection thereof.

    If you are reading this blog and are thinking that it does not apply to your network church, please reconsider. When the exodus of reputable staffers began at CStone, it also began in the network churches. Was it coordinated? Absolutely. By the Holy Spirit. Look around you. See who is missing. DO ask the Holy Spirit why.

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  11. Anonymous,

    Every human who has any heart struggles with letting go of the familiar. The question is are we to find our security in the familiar or in Jesus.

    I had to remind myself of this continually when I decided to leave a few years ago. Separating and healing is a process.

    I too listened to a portion of his message. It basically was an aim to shore up co-dependency. Words like protocol, depending on and supporting another's vision, and partnership.

    The problem is most of this message was based from scriptures out of context and leadership models derived from a time when God had not yet taken up residence IN every believer so they could hear God for THEMSELVES.

    The God with THEM is the GOD IN US today through the shed blood of Jesus and his fulfillment of the Old Covenant.

    God does and can speak to you without a priestly mediator. Saul was never God's plan. David was never God's plan. Kings where never God's plan. Wanting a king was man's plan and God let them have it and everything that came with it for a SEASON.

    Then he sent JESUS the KING of KINGS to abide in the heart of all of us. We are ALL PRIESTS and KINGS according to the Bible.

    I wonder if Michael will support your vision and what is in your heart regarding what you feel the Lord has called you to? We all know the answer to that one. It's Pitts way or no way.

    God will not be mocked forever....the protocol is we shall all know the Lord and have His Spirit from the least to the greatest. He will write it on our hearts...we are all on the same playing field. Jesus is the HEAD of every man.

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  12. To Anon. 12:32 PM,

    I'm not so sure he was talking about spiritual gifts or at least not in the 1st service.

    At any rate, he was definitely off track and far from using the Word of God to highlight his "revelatory" message. He even uses words that can't be found in the Bible.

    Ah, but then again, it's just "the letter". We can't really make that the focus of our preaching - it's too confining & might actually cause individuals to sit up & take note.

    I am sorry to hear that you feel your gifts haven't been used. However, MP & the gang don't really take note of the spiritual gifts in the Bible - they focus on natural giftings that they can use to make their kingdom look really great.

    Cause after all - everybody is great & it's all great & the Stone is the only "spiritual" place in town. All the rest of us are just religious chumps who take too much heed to the letter which apparently is now what he refers to as the Word of God, you know the Bible.

    I hope you find a place that will use whatever spiritual gift God has placed within you to further the work of the gospel.

    We will keep you in prayer as you learn to let go & find a church where you feel you can be used by God.

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  13. To Love Villain,

    Thank you so much for your openess. I think you exhibit a very healthy attitude about how to let go of CStone. It is a struggle & though I have been gone for quite sometime, I think I still do too much looking back.

    As you say, we must leave it alone & get truly plugged in to a new church. There can't be any comparing because as you say there won't be any elements of CStone that we loved at a new church & thank God for that.

    CStone was/is unhealthy and out of balance. I guess unrealistic/unbiblical would be a good way to put it. And yes, most new worship I have experienced does not manipulate you the way CStone's does & again, thank God.

    Finally, as you say there won't be a replacement for CStone. That is a hard thing to accept when searching for a new place to worship & fit in. Initially, you can't help but compare everything to what was at CStone. For many of us, it's all we knew for a very long time. In my case, almost 2 decades.

    So, I must continue to allow God to show me what a truly healthy church looks like & feels like. And yes, I am truly glad that I am free from the false doctrine & other unhealthy aspects of CStone. I am still however, in process, and learning to fully let go.

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  14. @PREACH IT!
    >>When you have those things in place it is much easier to let go. Otherwise, you will get stuck & keep holding on "business as usual", except for the fact that once your eyes have been opened, it isn't really business as usual.<<

    Well heck, I can STILL stay in a holding pattern simply by sitting on the fence about things. Even when my eyes are open. The trick there is to acknowledge the fence sitting for what it is - and gird my loins to hop off to one side or the other. The problem with drawn out fence-sitting, however - is that one gets splinters in their @$$.

    A replacement for Cornerstone? That comment really stood out up there^. When someone dies - or we get a divorce - I don't think we can say we will find a "replacement." That does not mean we won't love again. Also, in some cases, that's a GOOD thing.

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  15. RE: 2day's sermon: translation
    Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don't want you to be ignorant. Don't get all caught up in the spirit and receive a word about whether you should eat cornflakes or a banana for breakfast. Never mind if that is your personal struggle, just set that aside, because we need a sermon about Saul and Samuel, which in case you may also be ignorant of, I'll explain it to y'all. Are you with me? Am I helping somebody? Walk with me and I'll talk for 45 more minutes and tie it all together at the end, because like these old testament men I'm gonna wait for y'all. Because a real leader has to stand still until the people understand. But since y'all are ignorant of spiritual things I don't want to actually talk about spiritual gifts because God blesses partnerships. Our bodyguards, I mean ushers, will assist in the fleecing while you wave your offering and sing. Now love somebody on your way out while I sneak through this back door behind the choir and beat the traffic out of here.

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  16. I am by no means a MP fan, but unlike many of you here, I never invested in any of the dogma that was spouted at CC over the years that I attended. As I have indicated in other posts I quickly learned to take what I could use and leave the rest behind, all the while enjoying the floor show.

    At first when this Blog came on line it was interesting, to see the masses becoming aware, and rebel against MP and the issues at CC. Knowing that many who were now seeing problems had blindly stood up for MP and the church not to long ago, and who even chastised those who failed to follow the word of MP.

    But now I see that many of you are actually stuck in your anger at MP and at CC. Now I fully understand that MP preached words that are not congruent with the bible, or at the very least teaches his own brand Christianity. But we all chose to follow (at whatever level we followed) and we have to take responsibility for our own actions. MP preached and you followed without thinking, without caring if what he said was true or not. Many of you are now having problems because you are being forced to think, and your real issue with other churches is that they don't as directly tell you what to think. you allowed yourself to blindly follow someone instead of following the truth of the word, (I bring this to your attention not to be mean, but to make you think so you won't repeat the same error).
    If you really want to be free of MP and CC, you have to let it go. Some of you have left years ago and are still wallowing in grief as if you had broken up with your first love, get over it. You will be bound by the demons of CC and MP as long as you keep holding on to your feeling about them. In fact in some ways I think that they hold more power over some of you since you left than they ever did when you attended CC.

    You want to heal, then move on, concentrate on making yourself a better christian and a better person, its not all about MP or CC, most of it is about US and what we failed to do, not what MP did to us, MP only has control of us if we allow it so take some personal responsibility and accept your part. Instead of waiting for someone to tell you their interpretation of the bible, learn it yourself. If you want to be a good christian, do what the bible and Jesus tell you to do, and not what someone who claims a special relationship with God says to do or believe. If you want to stay bound, then by all means hang on to your hurts from years ago, or continue to listen to MP's messages and argue of how he has fallen (which really is just between him and God, just as each of our individual failings are between us and God), Keep waiting for the house to fall instead of building your own foundation. I'll say it again MP and CC only have power over you if you allow them to. Now I know people are going to say, but I have friendships, and relationships at CC that will cease if I leave, and I say if your leaving causes them to end then they were most likely never were real to begin with, but if they were real they will be brought back to you.

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  17. @ Mimi - you forgot one thing.

    The letter of the law kills but the spirit gives life. So if you are going to use scripture to prove something .... without the spirit...
    Ooops ... forgot the man from the Gideons was here. Well, I didn't mean ya'll to think that I was saying that the Bible isn't important in fact I've used the Gideon bible in my hotel room to preach when I left mine at home ... and they preach real good by the way .... so if you can spare $20.00 bring it up front and help the Gideons.

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  18. To Sam I Am: Part 1

    QUOTING YOU:
    “I quickly learned to take what I could use and leave the rest behind, all the while enjoying the floor show.”

    ●So you were “spiritual” enough to recognize the damage that was being done at Cornerstone, but yet you remained for the sake of… personal entertainment??

    “I never invested in any of the dogma that was spouted at CC over the years that I attended.”
    ●Right, so you have just disqualified yourself from the debate! How then could you be someone who is able to truly understand what folks are going through? (This is WHY all of your comments focus on “reprimanding” those who left -including former Pastors). Because either A) You haven’t left B) As you stated above, you were just there for entertainment and that was more important to you than the quality of the Word being taught in the “house”.

    “At first when this Blog came on line it was interesting, to see the masses becoming aware, and rebel against MP and the issues at CC.”
    ●Again, Sam I Am….. you seem to always gravitate toward playing both sides of the fence. Today you attempt to paint the picture that the blog has provided a place where folks can congregate to “rebel” against Michael and Cornerstone. Really? For someone who has SUPPOSEDLY been following and supporting the blog since the beginning, you would know that LIFE after Cornerstone has provided a place of support and healing for those in transition –which is btw a process. (Sounds like you still lean toward some of the “Us vs. Them” mentality… justsayin’ ;)

    “If you really want to be free of MP and CC, you have to let it go. Some of you have left years ago and are still wallowing in grief as if you had broken up with your first love, get over it.”
    ●Friend, you are making quite a few assumptions here. Isn’t part of “letting go” –talking things out? Going through the Stages of Grief -which would include shock & denial, pain & guilt, anger, reconstruction of truth, acceptance??
    ●IF you have been reading all the comments… it is clear that the people who are reaching out for support are ones who have RECENTLY LEFT. And those that have been gone for a few years, are the ones providing insightful comments to bring support in return. THIS is a far cry from “wallowing in grief”. Personally, I have been gone for several years…would you say that I am “wallowing in grief” because I have a heart for those who are going through what I once went through?? It’s called compassion for your bros. and sis. in Christ. It’s called relating.
    ● Simply telling someone to “get over it” –IS easy isn’t it? You have no idea the personal e-mails that come to us…. You obviously have NO IDEA the type nor level of ABUSE that many have suffered (that has NOT been posted on the blog) or you would not be so quick to make such rash and critical judgments about them.

    --Do you not TAKE NOTE of the same individuals who comment about their progress?? “Thank you, I have been able to find a new church.” “Thank you, I have been able to bring closure to my situation.” “Thank you Darrin, Leroy, Angela, Amy, Penny, Andrea and Rueben (and all the others), your words were very insightful and uplifting!”

    “But now I see that many of you are actually stuck in your anger at MP and at CC.”
    ●Stuck huh?? Where are all these comments of people “stuck in their anger”?? Another FAILED attempt at trying to paint a picture of those who have left as "a bunch of offended, hurt, angry people." (yawn) Cannot people share their feelings without being considered “stuck”? It’s called PROCESSING THINGS Sam I Am… most professional counselors highly recommend it.

    “take responsibility for our own actions”
    ●RIGHT, we’ve been saying that ALL along, where have you been??

    “MP only has control of us if we allow it so take some personal responsibility and accept your part”
    ●Did you not read the Article “The Heart of the Matter”… there are (2) sides to every coin..ring a bell?

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  19. Part 2 Quoting and Answering "Sam I Am":

    “..continue to listen to MP's messages and argue of how he has fallen (which really is just between him and God)”
    ●Wow..where to begin? Guess we hit a nerve when we corrected the false teaching from yesterday morning. Were we just suppose to ignore those who were confused by the false doctrine??

    ●Between Him and God???? Are not his unscriptural leadership methods and doctrine causing damage to those who sit under him??? What about the drinking?? How many accidents and lives need to be affected in order to finally address the problem?!

    ●Leaders within the Church are to walk in a manner WORTHY OF THEIR CALLING. Paul said, “Follow me as I follow Christ.” Your argument is mute friend. Michael’s FINAL JUDGMENT is between Him and God. (We have done nothing but express love AND prayer toward him personally.) However, this does NOT negate our responsability to JUDGE HIS FRUIT… which btw is a mandate from scripture for ALL believers.

    “Keep waiting for the house to fall instead of building your own foundation.”
    ●Where are you getting that from? Where are these people who are just “sitting around and waiting for Cornerstone to fall” BEFORE they start building a new foundation –hasn’t our FOCUS been all about BUILDING IT ON CHRIST AND NOT CORNERSTONE? (Sounds more of Pitt’s Damage-Control Lingo if you ask me.) Always trying to be the ONES TO DETERMINE what the picture says... “See, folks that leave don’t have a life because they still talk about us.”

    ●THIS IS EXACTLY what A CULT does to SILENCE PEOPLE THAT LEAVE and MANIPULATE THOSE THAT REMAIN --FEAR & CONTROL. No one wants to be categorized as “such”, so they remain silent.

    ●So your saying -if people comment their thoughts and feelings with scriptures, some how they haven’t began the process of restoring their foundation?? Your statement contradicts itself friend. It takes years to sort through all the unscriptural teachings and to repair the foundation of one’s belief system --not to mention the trust factor that was COMPLETELY shattered to boot. This takes time. Where is your compassion?? Some of the folks who are reaching out for help spent 20 years of their life at Cornerstone.

    Sam I Am: You are either a “plant” commentor sent to discredit and “label” those who have left…. OR you simply think that contributing your “drill sergeant” recommendations will simply “cure all” in one dose. Either way, if you continue to “box and label” the folks that reach out for help here… your comments will not be welcomed. Why? Because if you truly had intentions of posting comments to help people, you wouldn’t work so hard to put most of the blame on them... while the BLARING arrogance, false teaching, misappropriation of power and sin at Cornerstone is left marginalized and "swept under the rug".

    Remember, it’s speaking truth in LOVE for a reason. Because everyone is at a different place (including those who are struggling with leaving). We do not want to be quick to “classify” those who have the courage to express their thoughts and concerns. Remember, everyone was affected differently and at DIFFERENT levels.

    Maybe some did invest more than they should, but at the end of the day… they WILL learn from the situation and RECOVER ALL! For some really believed what Michael said and where he said they were headed...

    Friend keep in mind: RECOVERING FROM A CULT IS DIFFERENT FROM LEAVING AN OFFENSIVE 5TH GRADE TEACHER'S CLASSROOM.

    For everyone else: Isn’t it like a breath of “fresh air” when you finally get to take off that mask of perfection...and keep it real. That's when people are able to get FREE FOR REAL! Keep moving forward and don't let the opinions of others sway you from what God is saying to you at this time.

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  20. @ Speaking the Truth in Love -- Amen and Thank you!

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  21. Speaking the Truth I echo AB regarding your response to Sam I Am. Nice breakdown.

    I think it is healthy and something that can really help people when you watch his messages and then try to find it in the Bible in CONTEXT because 99% of the time there is no Bible foundation for what he teaches and what better way to show people this than commentary and review of the messages right here.

    This is what the Bereans did to keep people in check who were straying from the truth.

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  22. @Sam I Am
    You said: But now I see that many of you are actually stuck in your anger at MP and at CC.

    Even if this is TRUE - what does it have to do with... you?

    Recovery 101 = Stay out of my head.

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  23. @SAM I AM (again)

    You said:
    >>If you really want to be free of MP and CC, you have to let it go.<<

    You are trying to tell me how to walk my recovery. You can't. Where is your share with Wisdom help and hope for those of us who ARE stuck in letting go? If you have a sure fired answer I am telling you NOW - write a book. You will make MILLIONS.

    How did you "GET OVER IT." I HAVE been gone for years, but this is the first for me to speak openly. Yes, there is some anger - some misdirected - some blaming - yes... but that is also part of my learning process. I learn to direct in a healthy manner - which puts be yet another step closer to letting it all go.

    I don't believe one not "gets over" - even with Jesus. He tells us we all have our crosses to bear. Well... at least give me credit in that the walk to Golgatha is one hella walk! But I WILL get there. THAT I can promise you.

    I am with you - unless we work it out we are doomed to repeat. So I'll keep on workin it out. Get out of my recovery and worry about your own.

    TWYN&LTR

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  24. To AB, Eyeswideopen & Speaking The Truth in Love,

    AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

    Nice breakdown for sure! Some people just don't get it I guess. When you have given your heart & soul to a man & his ministry & believed what he preached through the years was doctrinally sound & then suddenly things take a drastic change i.e. people begin leaving, deception is a common thing, & sin in the house goes unchecked, then yes, your world does get rocked & it takes time to work it all out.

    And no, you don't just get over it because if you don't take the time to process it & find out what happened for you to get to that place in the first place, then you are either lying to yourself or you are bound to repeat it all over again.

    How right you are Speaking the Truth in Love - it is psychologically necessary to have a place to safely process your thoughts & feelings when leaving an abusive & very cult like church. It is also very healthy.

    And as AB said, how great it is that we can have a place to break down the false doctrine from the services. It is not to be ignored as apparently Sam I Am ignored it for the floor show. What kind of a ridiculous comment is that?

    The moment we began to sense something was off in the spirit & figured out that the "decency & in order protocol" mantra at the Stone was really just a cover for heavy-handed shepherding, we started to make a way out for ourselves. We didn't consider it humorous & just hang around for the show.

    No, we painstakingly prayed & sought God's leading & eventually did the right thing - we left & stopped supporting the lie.

    This isn't something to be mocked here. It is serious life stuff regarding our relationship with Jesus & His Word. And to be told to just stop rebelling against MP & CC so it doesn't control you is also absurd. We are not rebelling. We are doing our duty as christians according to the Word of God. We are correcting false doctrine & speaking truth. This isn't mere sport for us. We are helping people in some of their darkest, most painful time in their lives.

    This really is a ministry. It is meant to help restore proper doctrine & in some cases people's faith & hope that they can actually be a part of a church again.It is also meant to bring healing & to help others learn to forgive so they can move on.

    So to Sam I Am, I am so sorry that you can so flippantly & arrogantly make your comments. You apparently have no understanding of psychological things nor do you have any compassion, just a drill sargent mentality. Either that or you are one heck of a shallow christian or some kind of a plant as Speaking the Truth in Love said. You always seem contrary & poised for arguing when you post. I don't get it.

    Well, the blog author has been gracious to you & has made things very plain for those who are truly seeking help & hope & truth.

    I have no idea what you are looking to do, but I think this is not the blog for whatever it is.

    So, get on board with the focus here or abandon ship my friend.

    As always, just sayin'...

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  25. Well, this may be a bit off topic, but not really.

    I just went to the new link Faith & Works & read article XVIII - When Its All About You. All I can say is WOW. It nicely sums up the whole CStone experience in a very sound & enlightening way. It is a feast that may take some time to digest, but one that is highly nutritious.

    I recommend it as a good article to start with - WOW! A must read!!

    And to Penny - thank you again for your unique & on point comments. And yes, Sam I Am needs to get out of our recovery & worry about his own.

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  26. Saints, there is no need to be concerned over a "nay-sayer" who would post on this site. As in life, there will always be those who do not understand the purpose, or function, of a thing. If your heart is right and your motives are pure, do not get sidetracked by a negative statement. In fact, we might learn from criticism, even if it is said with a wrong spirit. That is one of the ways that God teaches us... He uses constructive criticism. Iron really does sharpen iron if we allow it to do so (Proverbs 27:17) It is also one of the things that we accuse Michael and Robert of not doing... accepting constructive criticism. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend..." (Proverbs 27:6)

    Yes... some of the things he said are silly, and unproductive... examples: "enjoyed the floor show," "get over it," "let it go," etc... But there may be some helpful information in other things this detractor said... examples: "MP and CC only have power over you if you allow them to." This is not bad information Saints, no matter where we are in the recovery process. Also, Sam I am said: "Now I know people are going to say, but I have friendships, and relationships at CC that will cease if I leave, and I say if your leaving causes them to end then they were most likely never were real to begin with..." That, too, is excellent insight.
    In closing, I would like to say... please do not take offense at detractors... because if we truly love the Lord and His precious Word, none of these things will offend us... "Great peace have they which love thy law, and nothing shall offend them." (Psalm 119:165)

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  27. I am really bothered by what was said by "Sam I am." The fact that we just need to get over it...it’s the same thing that MP used to say from the platform when anyone was hurt or broken. Many of us that "just need to get over it" are people that have, prior to CC, been much abused. I have been terribly physically abused by my father, by my husband, and sexually abused by my brother for most of my childhood, and was GANG RAPED by three men when I was 18. I guess I just need to get over it, huh??? Wow, I sure as hell wish it were that simple SAM. Then, just when I thought that I was in a safe place and someone could teach ME how to recover, I realize that they are manipulating, controlling, and abusing me too, just to get what they want.

    So, yes, we are not all as TOGETHER as you were when you came there, we weren't as full of wisdom. How blessed you are that you knew they were taking us for a ride and still stood back to watch the show. How mature and loving of you. Thank you so much for your sincere words and direction, as penny stated, thanks for teaching us the process of HOW to let it go. You don't think I haven't tried??? Like I WANTED to be hurt that bad again???? I will ask you to PLEASE keep your opinions about us hurting people to yourself. We are tired of hearing how we are stuck, hurt, offended we are. You know what, MP is right, I am offended.....I am offended by your thoughtless comments. They show no compassion. However, I choose not to remain in that offence, but it is really hard NOT to remain there when you can never bring that offence to the person involved....Like scripture tells us to. So this is our platform to vent and heal.... Thanks to the brilliant author of this blog. This blog has been a God-send to many, many people.

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  28. Don't worry about those who are there for the floor show. They are there to see and be seen. They live in glass houses.

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  29. Peter said that he had to continually remind people of the SIMPLICITY that is found in Christ.

    Jesus said that if you took on HIS YOKE that it would be "easy".

    I think most of the time we look for something or some "deeper revelation" beyond the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins and that is where the doctrine of man begins to germinate and take root for false doctrines.

    I know when I left I thought I understood faith versus works, justification, grace, and all the foundational stuff which is why I originally came to Jesus. (I continually failed). I found out I didn't really grasp it until I left and read a book called Grace Walk.

    Unfortunately, Michael starts to bewitch you with another Jesus of fame fortune and how you can have it all "spiritual hopium messages" after the conversion.

    He reverts to OT leadership models of him being the King and you needing his covering protection and starts to slowly build his co-dependency kingdom.

    On the flip side we have "itching ears" to hear fabrications of the Truth that appease our flesh and American Dream stronghold and we support these messages and false prophets.

    Michael and Robert are not responsible for the success of the Cornerstone business. We are the ones that keep the lights on and we are the ones that need to stop the enabling of the abusers to hear what is appeasing to the flesh.

    Stop feeding the beast folks. Find a community of believer's that focus on Jesus and not a mans gifting or "anointing". Look for Real LOVE.

    Enter HIS REST by FAITH and cease from your laboring and striving saints....

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  30. ABOUT GETTING OVER IT

    It really is an interesting beast, this "getting over it."

    While in beginning recovery (which included recognizing and accepting childhood physical, emotional and sexual abuse) - I heard that a lot.
    Not from my support system and not from my therapists - but from the people who were wildly uncomfortable with raw emotion.

    Yeah - I know I need to get over. I will. In fact - I'm already there... I just gotta walk it out.

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  31. Givin' the Stone a Pass . . . . .February 8, 2011 at 10:45 PM

    I, like most of you, was somewhat horrified at the brash criticisms leveled by "Sam I Am" at the hurting people on this blog. The blog moderator was articulate and justified, IMO, in taking the points apart, peice by peice. However, I also see merit to "Aware's" remarks echoing that "MP and CC only have power over you if you allow them to." regardless of what may have motivated "Sam I Am" overall. As "Speaking the Truth" said, grief is a process, so is transitioning from CC. Everyone may not be ready for such advise, as the pain maybe too fresh, but I think some may be rebuilding the peices after leaving and this singular piece of advise may be well advised. Selah.

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  32. To GTSAP:

    Yes, thank you for supporting Aware's comment. Many are in different places in the process of moving forward and I believe we should extend grace accordingly.

    To Penny:

    You nailed it on the head friend -"You just gotta walk it out!" Raw emotion is what's real; everything else sets out to either medicate or sugar-coat what's really going on.

    At the end of the day, wherever you go -there you are.

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  33. To Speaking the truth in love,

    Thank you for your insightful words. I'm thankful that I found Jesus! And no matter how many times I mess up or others around me, I have Him in my life. He loves me and thought enough about me to bring me to Him. He also delivered me from a life of destruction and even though it's been a long time coming, I finally believe that it's okay to accept this love! That it was meant for me! (Of course everyone else too) :)

    Let's simplify things when it comes to Christianity. Let's focus on Jesus. After being sent a note that someone wrote on holiness, I began focusing on Jesus instead of my problems. I prayed about them, but with my mind set on Him, it made me aware of how much He IS the answer. He's also the ONE I can confide in.

    I've grown a lot from my experience at Cornerstone and hope that things can be normal between those that left and those that still go to church there. There's no reason for the tension, when there can be understanding. I understand how this blog could come off being offensive to some that still attend. After all, we are discussing the church they currently go to. However, many of us left because we were led by the spirit of God to leave and have reasons. I have to walk out my salvation with fear and trembling... Very few people from Cornerstone actually asked why I left. I was taken off the mailing list the next week, like I didn't even exist. I just moved forward. My relationship with God means more to me than ever before and thankfully as I stated before have made some new Christian friends too.

    Penny, thank you for being you! I love the transparency! I used to think I had and would pray away a victimization mentality, when really I was just suppressing some real hurt and pain that need to be dealt with in a godly way. I got really good at looking like I had it all together at church, when I was so desperate for Jesus! Give, serve! That's all I would do! But what about sitting at His feet? Janet Wend in one of her classes, Experiencing God, spoke of a Baptist woman who spent time with God and when you would leave her presence, you'd felt like you just hung out with Him. She hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, but she had been filled to overflowing with the love of God, from the sounds of it. Yet we have Christians that are making and agreeing with statements that encourage people to give up with grudges, because nobody's thinking about you. And keep hating, we're just laughing. What happened to reconciliation? Why all the defensive walls? Not everyone wants to make peace, but where is the love? Aren't we supposed to love our enemies?? I don't get it. I tried to talk with someone about it and they didn't want to. I was coming from a place of love.

    Well, I'm thankful for this blog site. Thanks again for all the great, encouraging comments! :)

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  34. Thank you Givin' the Stone a Pass and Speaking...

    Please know that I do not agree with the tone, or tenor, of Sam's post... I do not believe that the drill sergeant mentality is very helpful, or productive, in this setting; but I have also learned, over the years, that I must stay open to the voice of God, even when it is emanating from a, less than diplomatic, source.

    Some of the greatest life lessons that I have ever learned have come when God sent someone into my world to challenge my comfort zone. "How rude!" I would think to myself... In my younger days, during those moments of annoyance, I would almost always declare: "Get thee behind me Satan!" Imagine my surprise when it turned out NOT to be Satan at all... but God, Himself, dashing me with cold water, and challenging me to grow, and learn, and take new steps of faith in His direction.

    I am certainly not saying that every moment of discomfort is a "God Moment," but what I am sharing is that we must not immediately jump to the conclusion that those moments of discomfort are always evil.

    Be blessed on this wonderful journey Saints... You are being prayed for every step of the way.

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  35. To Anon 9:06AM: your post touched me in a way I feel I need to PRAY for you and share with you what helped me...I too was sexually abused by my brother, physically abused by my step-dad, and emotionally abused by my biological father... it took me a long time to heal...I did go through some classes and have an amazing husband who has been patient with me and helped me trust men again, but this is what helped me the most...Quite a few years ago Bishop Duncan Williams came to CC and he called out those who were raped, abused, and victims of incest/generational curses to come to the altar...he told them to close their eyes and go back to that moment of attack and PLEAD THE BLOOD OF JESUS over that moment/through the generational DNA and allow HIS BLOOD TO WASH THE MEMORY CLEAN. YOU ARE A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST...WHAT IS OLD IS MADE NEW! I am not a victime of my circumstance! What the devil meant for my evil, God used for my good! I know through it all...God was with me and HE GUARDED my HEART TO NOT ALLOW THE BITTERNESS of the situation to take root...ALLOW THE LOVING GRACE OF GOD TO FLOW THROUGH your life and HEAL ALL YOUR HURT, ERASE YOUR MEMORIES, AND GIVE YOU PEACE! There is no way to 'get over it' but there is a way to not let it get over on you! GOD IS YOUR SOURCE, YOUR STRENGTH, YOUR REFUGE, YOUR STRONGTOWER...LEAN ON HIM AND HIM ALONE. I AM A CHILD OF GOD AN HEIR TO HIS THRONE AND THE DEVIL CANNOT HAVE ME...HE CANNOT ROB ME OF MY PEACE, MY JOY, MY SANITY...GOD IS MY FATHER, IN HIM WILL I TRUST...HIS DNA RUNS THROUGH ME!
    Please know I will be praying for you! No matter what anyone says from the pulpit, FB, or otherwise...whether in CS, leaving CS, or left CS...you are my brother or sister and I will lift you up before God!
    Peace, love, hugs to you all!

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  36. Part 1
    I wasn't going to write again after ticking off so many before, but I did want to add a couple things, I'm not going to address everything that was written in regards to my post, but I did want to say a couple things. (I also must give credit to the moderator for not deleting the first post).

    First of all I am not a plant for MP or CC, I have no need to defend them as people, or even people of faith. And I disagree with MP on many many things (translate to most things), but in all honesty I have to admit, although I didn't buy into his dogma, it does not mean that I didn't learn some things in the process, actually my disagreeing with him strengthened my own understanding of God/ and Jesus, as well as my relationship with them. And I think so many people get angry with the failings of leadership at CC, and our own personal failure to recognize it and address it, that we forget the positive stuff we learned and experienced. That is not in any way saying people should over look the negative and stay or return for the good, once you realize it is time to go you need to go and much like Lot not look back, but you were there for a reason, just as you are where you are now for a reason. Someone commented on my chastising the ministers who have left, but neglected to indicated that I also expressed much respect and love for them (at least the ones I had contact), I chastised them for fading away, and not taking responsibility for support of the whole MP dogma (at least until they left) Much like everyone wants MP to announce that he was wrong in his teachings and to show a concrete change. Because just like my feelings for CC I understand that not everything I experienced was 100% good or bad, but bits of both, I see strengths and short comings in the ministers that left (for that matter I am aware of my own strengths and short comings).

    Penny- two things first I would never equate child abuse and sexual abuse with what is happening at CC as adults. Children are inherently vulnerable, and often powerless which is one of the reasons that therapy is so hard (you have to overcome not just the abuse, but the feelings of powerlessness), and I would never tell a victim of child abuse or sexual abuse to just let it go, because they have a long hard road to go, but one of the first steps I would work on with child/ sexual abuse is trying to overcome their perceived helplessness, and start to reclaim their own control and power over their lives.

    But here you have adults who willing give up their own power to MP and to CC, and MP's dogma, and as long as people have MP to shift their blame to they don't have to take responsibility for accepting MP and his Dogma (which is what deep down really ticks people off who start to see behind the curtain, is how did I let myself fall for all this, and letting it all go includes forgiving yourself for falling for MP's dogma. However their failure to look at themselves and to look at only MP is where they get stuck). The sooner people look at what it was that attracted them to MP and his teachings and why that was important to them , as well as what changed, the sooner they can take responsibility for their decisions (most people get angry at being conned by a con man and may hate the con man, but they are also usually ashamed by their own ability to be conned), But when people can start to take responsibility for their decisions, they start to take back the power they gave up and start to get control over their lives. In this same vane people keep indicating that if “only Michael would change back to what he was when he started, if only he would repent, which again shows that the Power lies with MP not within ourselves, MP needs to take responsibility for his actions when and if he is ever ready, we can't impose that upon him its not within our power, but we can decide to take back the power we gave MP, and do what we need to do from here on out.

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  37. Part 2

    The second thing Penny, I don't want to control your recovery, I don't want the responsibility, I am just giving my two cents you and everyone here is free to ignore it, I won't take it personal. I have seen similar things happen in other places and after seeing the same arguments the same statements the same helplessness over and over, and seeing stuck behavior I decided to try (albeit harshly) to provide another option. But much like I did with MP teachings take what you can use and leave the rest behind.
    The last thing I want to comment on was someone commented on my comment regarding this blog was interesting at first to see people becoming aware and rebelling against MP. Which is 100% ACCURATE, however I do see a lot of positive stuff going on as well, and although the focus might be on healing for some (which is good), much of the underlying dialog is meant to bring MP down hence the continual focus on MP and CC and what is going on there (especially in the comments), and although moving on is a bit more pronounced in the actual articles, even most of that is directed at getting people to see the failings at CC and to start the process of leaving. So I was just being honest in what I saw, and I was interested in that and how the two thoughts of healing and unseating MP would play out. I do see that there is some catharsis to having both thoughts, it clearly helps people who are thinking of leaving or who are having doubts about having left, but does not point them in a direction to go from where they are, it just rehashes why they are where they are. This blog has a great foundation and information to get people to see the failings at CC, and hopefully it can help people find their way.

    Finally I do often play both sides of the fence, because its not all black and white and there are many ways to see things, and if you don't understand both sides how can you act. I could come on under two different names, but I choose to comment both sides as I see them under one name. Never trust anyone who says that they have all the answers, because chances are they don't even know what the questions are .

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  38. To Sam I Am:

    Thank you for taking the time to further expound on your comment. This is a sensitive topic and we ALL must remember to choose our words carefully, considering the nature of the situation. We should all strive to speak the truth in love, regardless of our individual assumptions and opinions of others. Let us remember to pray specifically for those precious few who still struggle with fully recovering their IDENTITY (that was “seemingly wrapped up” in the Stone). Certainly this should never be -for if God has led you, it would never be to a permanent shipwreck. I agree...

    I can also appreciate the fact that we may not see "eye to eye" on every aspect of Cornerstone, and certainly no one should even position themselves to say they are the “final authority" on the entire matter. I see it more as God using all of us to help eachother.

    With that being said, I think we've made it CLEAR that the motive behind addressing the False Teaching --IS NOT because we think it will "bring down" Cornerstone. (For God removed Saul, David took out Goliath.)

    However, if people DO NOT take the time to correct the False Teaching and get untangled from the Unscriptural Leadership Methods ===> PEOPLE WILL TAKE IT WITH THEM AND REPEAT IT ELSEWHERE. Furthering the damage that's already been done! You must take time to process everything. So again, people are not primarily speaking out because they think their "words" will shut down the Stone. (That "us vs. them" mentality simply DOES NOT exist outside the walls of 1520 Reynolds Rd.)

    At the end of the day, what shuts down any movement are the CHOICES of THOSE who are leading it. And it is seen in the FRUIT that is birthed out of a Heart that has chosen to ignore the Nature and Character they are reflecting to the people.

    When all is said and done, people think what they want to think. They will believe what they want to believe. However, God knows the motives of the Heart --and that my friend can never be hidden from His sight.

    Rest assured, many lessons are to be learned. I completely AGREE with you there! And yes (as we have indicated several times): If we do not take the time to look into "why" the system of Cornerstone was attractive to us, then we will NOT be able to fully learn and heal from the situation! But again, there are (2) sides to every coin. And it's hard to fully understand the "show" you have signed up for, when the magician hides his tricks behind the scenes. Things presented to the people, were simply not as they appeared.

    Sam I Am, perhaps you were not as wounded by the hands of Michael and Robert as others. And for that, I am happy to hear. But remember, there are many who have been hurt beyond what is appropriate to post on an internet blog. Let us choose our words wisely and extend Grace, as God deals with each and everyone one involved.

    I am reminded of the movie "Dark Knight”, sometimes you have to being willing to suffer for the sake of what’s best for the people. Perhaps some will not “get” everything that has gone on behind the scenes, but KNOW GOD IS doing what's BEST for His sheep… and sometimes the Truth IS hard to swallow, but it ALWAYS brings sweet relief.

    Again, thanks for taking the time to clarify and God Bless your journey forward.

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  39. Do you see what is happening here??? Differing opinions, thoughts, and perceptions are communicating with one another in an agreeable manner. It is the epitome of Christian demeanor and deportment...

    Were some upset? Of course, but they were allowed to share their concerns... openly and honestly. In sharing, the one who said those things had to take inventory of what was written and how it was written. They, in turn, responded in a more compassionate manner. Peace was brought to bare by the God who lives within His people. Unity was not broken by disagreement... in fact, unity became a byproduct of open discussion, clarification, and compassion.

    This is something that was not allowed under the old regime at Cornerstone. No one had the right to disagree, even if God, Himself were ordering that individual's steps.

    So... once again, I thank God for this blog. It is a positive step in the right direction, and it is modeling, for all to see, how disagreement can be handled agreeably.

    Be blessed Saints... and walk it out.

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  40. When I first arrived at the Stone, I felt this was where God would have me to be. Until now all was well in my spirit. For the last few weeks things just don't bode well in my spirit... I feel like I did in my spirit when it was time for me to leave my former church. At that time he directed me to the Stone. Now it's time to go. I feel it, but He hasn't said where.

    Pray that I get clear direction...

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  41. @Sam I Am

    First - I wasn't ticked. And I appreciate the observations. However, when the word YOU is used innumerable times in terms of recovery, that is not necessarily a good thing for those of us in recovery. I am more interested in how YOU cope, your experiences - your methods - so that I may learn from you and possibly try some of the methods you used to work things out.

    "Penny- two things first I would never equate child abuse and sexual abuse with what is happening at CC as adults. Children are inherently vulnerable, and often powerless which is one of the reasons that therapy is so hard (you have to overcome not just the abuse, but the feelings of powerlessness), and I would never tell a victim of child abuse or sexual abuse to just let it go,"

    If you read what I said in TERMS of recovery - I am NOT comparing my "situation" with my childhood abuse. The idea is that I was fashioned as a victim. And here I am again feeling/acting like a victim. Total responsibility for myself here. My issues are my issues.
    Granted - there are things about folks/the machine/etc that I do feel need to be addressed...

    But it's the idea that as a survivor - I tend to cycle and repeat abuses. The only difference now is that I AM an adult and I HAVE to take responsibility for my part in it. It's all related. Which is why "getting over" isn't so easy. But believe me - I WANT TO.

    This wont be the last time I am sitting around wondering what the frick happened because I should have known better - not ignored the flags - but if I take my lessons to HEART... I will be able to react differently. I'm walking stuff out. Again - my recovery.

    Have you read up on recovery?

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  42. @SAM

    PS. "Finally I do often play both sides of the fence, because its not all black and white and there are many ways to see things, and if you don't understand both sides how can you act. I could come on under two different names, but I choose to comment both sides as I see them under one name. Never trust anyone who says that they have all the answers, because chances are they don't even know what the questions are ."

    And this is why I <3 you.

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  43. Penny had too much coffee this amFebruary 11, 2011 at 8:04 AM

    @Anon - The Survivor

    As survivors... it is a difficult walk. As survivors who are aware of out issues/// what a ride. I always say "Fasten your seat belt, it's a dark ride." But well worth it. The mantra of my recovery group is "Recovery isn't for Wimps"

    As a survivor myself (my past reads VERY similar to yours) - it is important for me to be able to separate the issues as well as relate the issues. God knows I have daddy issues. I have even MORE mommy issues - which is probably what kept me from a lifelong career on a pole (Although I would have more money for tithing! HAR!)

    So I look at the situation and my feelings - and start sifting the tares from the wheat: what is an OLD issue that is being repeated/are my reactions to it in accordance with it. I know that my stronger emotional responses tend to be related to my family of origin and other "stuff."
    Then - it is a matter of relating current issues - etc - dealing with them... etc -

    This is a process - and it is a lifelong process. And no - we don't "Get Over" like we crawl over a fence. It is more like a walk on a razor's edge. I always need a reality check. And I don't believe there IS such a thing as "getting over" - I call it "accepting" and "Moving on"... but my issues pop up here and there and everywhere.

    Having said that - know that those of us who were from such families tend to land in abuse situations... a LOT. The key is recovery - going from victim to survivor - then from survivor to thriver. I just made that word up!

    We are broken... we are. I believe that. But I also know that we are strongest at our broken places. I also know, and no offense to anyone else, those of us who have walked out these life issue/or are walking them out/or are just recognizing them - are more powerful and courageous than any pulpit, man, power or principality.

    This is what reconciliation to God is all about. Clearing out the "stuff" to learn to love and trust Him again. I believe recovery is a call back to Eden - the walk right with God in full vulnerability.

    What you shared is raw - it's vulnerable - and it is powerful. Now... what to do with it? :)

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  44. Thought this might be helpful. http://pureprovender.blogspot.com/2009/07/are-you-covering-for-spiritually.html

    Signs you may be covering for a pastor who abuses the flock spiritually:

    1.You've noticed a pattern of people leaving the fellowship, but you hesitate to ask your pastor about it and don't like to delve into the reasons behind the exits.
    2.You've seen your pastor act in retribution for slights or criticism by removing people from ministries, publicly or privately shaming them or refusing to listen to them.
    3.You excuse your pastor's wrong behavior: He's young (or he's old), he doesn't understand the people who are unhappy, he has a little trouble relating to people, he'll grow out of it, I'm probably not seeing the whole picture, God will show him his weaknesses and he'll handle things better soon, no pastor is perfect in every way, he's such a good preacher that we can overlook the other parts of his calling.
    4.You find yourself blaming victims. You justify harsh behavior by your pastor by focusing on the sins or weaknesses of those who are shamed or shunned or criticized or punished.
    5.You feel that to protect the name of Christ in your community you need to keep secret the alarming behavior by your pastor or leaders in the church.
    6.You feel it's your duty to think the best of your pastor, no matter what charges are brought against him (but you don't extend the same courtesy to those who feel they've been abused or harmed).
    7.You feel it's okay for your pastor to build up your church by criticising other churches with "inferior" doctrines or practices, but it's not okay for anyone to question decisions by church leaders if it looks like criticism.
    8.You enjoy being flattered by your pastor and seek to please him often. You spend a lot of time in church flattering and seeking approval from your pastor.
    9.You are frequently in fear of being criticized by your pastor or having your ministry in the church taken away.
    10.You've seen your pastor flatter those he can use and then later turn on them or ignore them.
    11.You would feel uncomfortable asking to see financial records of the church, and you are willing to just assume that they are being used in a godly manner.
    12.You feel constant pressure to help more in church or to give more, or both.
    13.Going to church often seems like a burden, but you don't want anyone to know you feel that way.
    14.You have criticized other churches or individuals with your pastor.
    15.You like the feeling of being in the "inner circle," and you sometimes feel you have the pastor's confidence in a way no one else does.
    16.You often feel a little bit superior to Christians who don't witness as much as you, or who don't practice their faith as well as you, or who don't emphasize certain doctrines as much as you do.
    17.You feel that no one quite understands the scriptures, delivers sermons or reaches out to the weak and poor like your pastor does.
    18.You spend much time defending your pastor, either in your own mind or to others
    19.You don't like to admit it, but you often spend more time thinking about your pastor or leaders than you do about God (whether positively, negatively or both).
    20.You are exhausted.

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  45. Part 1
    Penny you mention that if I had a sure fire cure I should write a book and that I would make millions. Well I don't have a sure fire cure, but I am writing a book called "Religion Stole My God: But I'm Getting God Back" which I am almost certain won't earn me a million dollars if I ever finish it (I'm at an em-pass right now), but it does give me something to think about.

    You asked how did I get over it, well as I indicated I wasn't really too enmeshed by MP or CC, except for feeling that they were scammers in the end, In the beginning and for quite some time I operated under the thought that even flawed messengers can have valid messages, plus (as I have said) I liked the floor show the energy of the crowd, and the music, I even enjoyed MP's energy even when I thought he was wrong, (I bring this up mostly because it is not only important to understand why you are leaving a situation it is important to realize why you had stayed). However in saying that, I have been enmeshed in other things that were not healthy, and were very hurtful and had to learn to let them go, and here is what I worked on.
    Now I'm not looking at sexual or child abuse here (Penny you had mentioned being abused as a child and in recovery, as did someone else so I just wanted to be clear that I understood there was a difference, both in my last post and in this one). I also understand that later “abuse” like spiritual abuse, or relationship issues are complicated by emotions and issues related to earlier abuses and that separating them out is very difficult.

    What I am looking at are issues similar to what has been discussed as occurring at cornerstone, where people are scammed, mislead, unjustly retaliated against, and spiritually abused. First people hate to admit that they were taken in or that they were scammed or that they couldn't see what was going on, so it is frequently hard to actually acknowledge that there was a problem. And the good news here is that most people reading this blog have already determined that at the very least other people think there is a problem, and many know it for sure.

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  46. part 2

    So the first thing is acknowledging that you were taken in, that someone you trusted used your trust against you. You have to accept that you were sold a bill of goods, that were not what they were promised, and that that you willingly bought in, because you believed what you were being told. Most people split their emotions at this time, first they are angry at those they see as betraying them (perfectly normal and we have seen a fair bit of anger on this blog), second they feel depressed and or confused (again this is normal because a major part of how you identified yourself has changed, your place in the world is different once you acknowledge the problem and wish to change your situation than it was the minute before you realized a change was needed), and again we have seen a lot of this on this blog, feelings of sadness and loss. Unfortunately people also feel like they were an idiot, or that they should have known better, they should have seen the problem sooner, (which is normal and we have seen here, but is actually the first way of thinking that needs changed). Unless you have a mental disorder which makes you self destructive, people have an innate drive to survive, which usually means that most people given several options will try to choose the best option for themselves (or their family) based on the information that they have at hand. In other words in most circumstances people want to act in what they perceive as being in their own best interest, (sounds selfish I know but it happens at a subconscious level, and circumstances can over ride it like rushing into a building to save a child).

    I hear you asking but what does acting in my own best interest have to do with any of this. Well it means that you planted yourself at Cornerstone because all the information you gathered while looking at it and deciding if it was the place for you, told you that planting yourself there in whatever capacity it was, was in your own best interest. Be it you felt a strong connection to God, you liked the messages, you liked the people, you trusted the people, whatever it was that pulled you there and kept you there.

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  47. part 3
    So at the time you made your decisions, you made them based on what you experienced, and the information that was available to you at the time, and what you believed to be in your best interest. If you knew then what you know now you might have made different choices, but you didn't and you can't act on information, experiences and understandings that you didn't have. Take people who invested with Bernie Madoff, they invested because the information available to them showed it was a great opportunity , appeared legit, and Bernie was a likeable guy. I'm sure had they been told that investing with Bernie could gain them a lot of money, but that it was a ponzi scheme and that they could lose all their money, they might have invested elsewhere. There is no I should have known or I should have seen, you only know what you know when you know it. So you were not stupid for staying as long as you did, or investing as much as you did, or for being taken in, you did what you believed was in your own best interest.

    Now the second part of exploring having acted in your own best interest is that you have to look at what it was that made you want to plant yourself at CC and made you want to stay, (I suggest you make a list) since I assume that you actually planted your self, volunteered, tithed, because you felt and believed that you were getting something in return (don't focus on that you didn't get what you thought you were getting but on what you thought you were getting. i.e. don't focus on the fact you tithed expecting blessings that never materialized, but rather that you tithed because you believed you would be blessed and how did that make you feel, was the blessing the feeling of giving and believing you were blessed). People usually don't want to do this because they are usually so caught up in their anger/ sadness they don't want to remember that there were positives in the relationship (you really see this a lot in divorces, people focus on say an affair (which having an affair is wrong) but forget about all the positive things in the relationship or how and why the relationship even began, as if now that it is over only the bad stuff can be remembered). Understanding the positives is important because it helps you understand what you wanted and needed out of the relationship, which will help you looking for ways to replace those wants and needs. It also helps you let go of some of your anger, because you are not focusing on only the negative, but you are looking at what you got from the relationship. It also helps explain why you may have resisted seeing that there were problems even when others tried to tell you. We as humans hate to leave our comfort zone and we will try very hard to stay where specific wants and needs are being met, we tend to only change when a maximum amount of discomfort is reached (which varies by person and circumstances), which really means we change when the discomfort we feel is greater than the satisfaction we feel from what ever needs and wants are being met.

    Ok that is a start I'll write more if people think its worth reading.

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  48. Penny read you 8:04 post very well said. Getting over something and accepting it and or moving on can all mean the same thing. You can never get over something or let something go or truely move on unless you accept things. We are all just collections of our experiences, and relationships, and those past hurts and disappointments. And the hardest thing for us to accept is that those past hurts and dissapointments in the past, exisit and can't be changed, we have to accept that they happened so that we can ackowledge that they may be influencing how we behave now. Once we realize that they are affecting us or could be, we can start determining in real time (or closer to real time) who and what is driving our decsions, is it the abused or hurt child from from long ago, or the saner more mature adult that you sometimes let surface, is the decsion maker the person in you trying to please your mother or get back at your father. A good friend of mine put it this way, my decisions and life are like a bus which is filled with all these seperate voices that make up all the different hurts and pains, and the strong aspects and weak aspects of my personality, and each of them want to be the driver, so as I'm faced with decisions I always have to try and think about who is driving my bus, before I can really decide if the decsion I am making or the action I am taking is really in my over all best interest, or something from my past that is looking to satisfy something that is no longer relevant and may actually be hurtful.

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  49. To Eye See:

    I didn't want you to think your comment was missed friend. We are praying for you indeed!

    Isn't it amazing how God knows EXACLTY HOW to show us His will --in a way that cannot be mistaken in our individual lives?!

    I remember when it was time for me to leave as well. The Holy Spirit not only confirmed it to me by His Word, but I remember sensing that I was a “stranger” in my own church. Like a visitor in a land that was no longer my home. I too remember sensing that things had come "full-circle" for me as well. In fact, when I looked at Michael on the platform it was like I could feel that the "cord" (that once connected me to him) had already been cut. I was JUST realizing it. Truly God was opening my eyes, but I would have to rely on my FAITH to walk it out. This is my advice to you as well.

    Isaiah 30:21—
    Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it."

    “Eye See”, God WILL show you each step AS it comes your way –but you must be bold enough to take the first one. I wish I could offer easier answers or even “sum up” everything up into a nice little package. But, what I can do is be honest… Leaving Cornerstone is not going to be easy. It will be sad. On one hand, you will be excited to discover what new things God has in store for you… but on the other hand it means “letting go” and moving on from this beloved chapter of your life. At the end of the day, things will be make sense...for there IS much purpose to your time at Cornerstone.

    It’s like watching one of those mesmerizing movies that keep you captivated with an expectant “happy ending”, but then seemingly out of place the credits roll and you realize it’s over. “What?!” Followed by shock and disbelief. Then you begin going over the details of the movie in your head…and finally come to the conclusion “THIS is NOT how I thought it would end!” But you know what? God knew. And just as the Spirit of the Lord led you to the doors of Cornerstone Church, He will too continue to guide and lead your steps onward. You see --sometimes we turn things that are meant as a “vehicle”, into a destination”.

    Awhile back I was reminded of a prophecy given several years ago by Tudor Bismark. He was speaking about the members of Cornerstone Church. He said – “The people of this house are like a mighty river. And this river is SO powerful, that it will rise and bust out through the walls of this house and flow into the nations of the earth!”

    Sometimes prophecy is given and WE apply OUR interpretation at the time. However, the intelligence of the Spirit is above what we can comprehend at certain seasons in our life. Why? Because our individual “time” has not yet come. Friend, I believe that the mighty river of God’s people has and is being fulfilled right before your eyes.

    Be encouraged and FEAR NOT friend. Flow out and FULLFILL the PURPOSE God has spoken over your life! For the Holy Spirit has released you to do it.

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  50. @SAM I AM - CHAPTER I

    >>"I am writing a book called 'Religion Stole My God: But I'm Getting God Back'" <<– I am ALREADY intrigued! My God – ain’t THAT the truth!

    >>“as I indicated I wasn't really too enmeshed” <<– Gee - brag why doncha? ;-) there is the word of the day “enmeshed.”
    Oh man. You know, I always thought I was keeping a “healthy” detachment. OBVIOUSLY I was mistaken. This is what I get when I expect life validation from outside sources. I don’t even know how I crawled up that tree again. Other than... IT FELT GOOD. I guess I had a superstitious idea that because it was CC – and my first church – that THIS time, I would receive that. Oh, boy – was I ever disappointed.

    <<“Unfortunately people also feel like they were an idiot” << – Hey, if I walk like a duck… You know what too, it isn’t so much that I feel like an idiot now than it is that I am so p’d for having to GO BACK TO START.

    >>“In other words in most circumstances people want to act in what they perceive as being in their own best interest, (sounds selfish I know but it happens at a subconscious level, and circumstances can over ride it like rushing into a building to save a child).”<<
    Actually – this doesn’t sound selfish… it sounds healthy. One has to take care of the self to BE healthy. I don’t think most people follow through with this. I believe most people do what is comfortable. I mean, yes, we have a drive to survive – but there is also fear of change.

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  51. @SAM I AM - CHAPTER II

    >>“and the information that was available to you at the time, and what you believed to be in your best interest. If you knew then what you know now you might have made different choices,”<<

    No I wouldn’t have. I’d make the same choices. I love the BAND. I love the congregations’ participation. I love the singing the dancing the crazies the not so crazies - I love the preaching. I would plant myself in a seat again. It would be based on how it all made me FEEL.

    I am an X groupie who is… er… WAS so in love with “the band” (insert any exceptional band’s name in there) it is ridiculous. I also am well aware that it is trance inducing and combined with physical activity can leave a person quite vulnerable and hopped up on endorphins. I believe some of the praying and speaking in tongues accomplishes the same effect.

    I’m not sure if you (Sam) give credence to Oliver Saks, but he did all kinds of empirical studies about music’s affect on the human mind, conscious, psychology and psyche. To note: Standard Blues is purposely written to the beat of the human heart. It is believed this is why people love listening to Blues during tough times. Not only are the messages generally about surviving and feeling – the beat keeps the listeners heart steady. The music literally beats your heart for you. Moving on…

    Then, I invested in the GOD AS BANK MACHINE. I have a wondrous reputation as a cynic and skeptic. I truly trust no one – however, if there WAS even an iota of a chance that if I threw money into the tithe and offering that my life would somehow be manageable (not painless, mind you – I do know better – but manageable) I was going to at least TRY it. Looking back, how ridiculous! Hahahahhahhaha! When I didn’t have money, I did my work freelance for the church for free == or I would put extra time in == or I would get down and dirty with my recovery group or homeless folk. I still believe in doing all those things. I did before I got to CC – but for whatever convoluted reason, I was HOPING that CC would bring some kind of magic to get my $%&^ together. To this day, I have no idea WHY I thought that was even possible… except… well… we’ve all been there. But really - my focus was based on this bizarre fear that if I didn't tithe and serve, I'd be screwed.

    >>“We as humans hate to leave our comfort zone” << HAH! See commentary above.

    >>“we change when the discomfort we feel is greater than the satisfaction we feel from what ever needs and wants are being met.”<<
    There ya go.

    >>we have to accept that they happened so that we can acknowledge that they may be influencing how we behave now.<<

    I would like to add that part of that acceptance is allowing yourself to feel all the pain that goes with those past happenstances. (And isn’t THIS why I am an addict?) I loved CC because it medicated me.

    I love epiphanies.

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  52. To Staying Free,

    Awesome information. Thank you. I think if we are all honest with ourselves, we can all say that most of those characteristics applied to those of us who attended CStone.

    We indeed were covering for an abusive pastor & it is amazing that nearly every one of those characteristics applied to what we did to keep ourselves a part of the problem there.

    As an educator who works with children, I am ever amazed at the type of behavior we tolerate & excuse in adults that we so readily punish our children for & children don't have fully developed brains when it comes to reason & making rational decisions. So what does that say about the adults in our society??

    When reading the characteristics of covering for an abusive pastor, #12 particularly hit me. I always felt a pressure to do more, give more. I felt as if I was in a competition of some sort to gain the pastors's recognition. It seemed to me like everyone was trying so hard to outdo someone else & say look at my gift, my talent, my knowledge, my giving etc.

    And, as we did those things, it becmae less about Jesus and more about Michael and CStone - they became our god. We replaced pleasing God with pleasing the CStone ministry staff. We replaced our faith, which without having, we can never please God, with our works. If I tithe more, serve more, attend more services, classes, global school of ministry etc., then I will receive all God has for me. I'll get my blessings and favor will come to me. All that did was become exhausting because the more you did & the more you gave never really produced the things you hoped it would.

    It's like Penny said, CStone became our drug of sorts. It kept us coming back for more like an addiction even though there were things we questioned in our minds & felt in our spirits that something was amiss. We didn't really want to believe that those we put on a pedestal could actually be less than what they showed us week after week.

    But, suddenly, one day we realize out of our discomfort as Sam I Am said, that we can no longer ignore what should otherwise be screaming at us to look at. The Holy Spirit in us turns that light up ever so brightly & suddenly things become very clear to us & then we have a choice to make.

    So, it really helps to see those 20 characteristics of covering for an abusive pastor spelled out. Perhaps it will help someone who can't quite put their finger on what it is they sense is wrong or better yet, they can't verbalize it for fear of being looked at as having an "off" spirit.

    I am so very grateful for this blog and what it has evolved into - an open, honest forum where truth can be spoken. And we may not always agree with one another on all points & our journeys out may be a bit different, but at least we can love & accept one another just because we are brothers & sisters in Christ & that is what Jesus expects us to do. That is the example He set for us.

    To those on their journey of recovery from the Stone may you as Penny said, begin accepting so you can move on in Him.

    And to those still trying to break free from the Stone, I pray that God give you the strength you need to heed His voice and stop covering for Michael and the machine known as CStone.

    Be blessed each & everyone.

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  53. To Staying Free...

    Thank you... what a wonderfully insightful list. I believe that it is clear, concise, and right on point. Might as well have a couple of names at the top as a title.

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  54. @ Confused No More & Aware ....

    You're Welcome!
    I found this list from a blog yesterday and it "pinged" me on almost every single point! The last one was the proverbial "Straw that Broke the Camel's Back" which is:
    "You Are Exhausted"

    I just could no longer ignore that the "Emperor Had No Clothes".

    At first I thought ... WOW if ONLY I had known this a number of years ago, it would have saved me from so much grief and turmoil.
    But, I suppose I wasn't ready to accept what Holy Spirit had been revealing to me over the years.
    Dysfunction can become so "NORMAL" when you continue to suppress that "STILL SMALL VOICE" of Holy Spirit warning you, and it is especially easy when you truly do love people and hope that things will change.
    You believe that each New Year will be "IT" ... the year everything changes. Only, to end that year looking to another.

    Until people are ready to receive TRUTH (even when it goes against what has been "ingrained" within their belief system) and until they are willing to risk their reputation to follow Jesus regardless of what others are doing they will continue to make excuses for what any wise person would reject.

    I am so THANKFUL that Jesus awakened me from the spiritual coma I had slipped into.

    I may have been "Asleep" ... but my heart was still awake.
    Thank you, Jesus! I love you Pappa God!!!!!

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  55. Penny,

    You are correct. The drug served in these sorts of "Churches" is called Hopium. Hope does have a chemical reaction in the brain just like other drugs. When we "feel" hope for a better tomorrow our brain releases chemicals based upon those feelings just like if we are anxious our brain responds on a chemical level.

    The only problem is the hopes preached are false hopes and promises that never come to fruition in your life.

    Most of us sooner or later realize this and that is where some of the disillusion starts to take root and make us question what we are taught.

    One of the things I did after a few years at the Stone was go back and listen to the last 5 years of New Years messages and HOE messages that had prophecies or promises attached.

    I realized that none of these things ever came to pass. It was all lies and false promises to get people to give money.

    I encourage people to listen to past messages and ask yourself did the fruit ever show up? Open your Bible and ask, is this in context?

    Please don't lie to yourself to justify a co-dependent system. Be set free in Jesus Name!

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  56. @ Staying Free -- your comment to Confused No More and Aware -- was EXACTLY what I encountered and EXACTLY how I felt in coming to terms with my decision to leave. Have you been reading my mail?!? LOL

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  57. Part 1
    Penny you said, “there is the word of the day “enmeshed.”
    Oh man. You know, I always thought I was keeping a “healthy” detachment. OBVIOUSLY I was mistaken. This is what I get when I expect life validation from outside sources. I don’t even know how I crawled up that tree again. Other than... IT FELT GOOD. I guess I had a superstitious idea that because it was CC – and my first church – that THIS time, I would receive that. Oh, boy – was I ever disappointed.”

    Detachment has a fine line, to little, and you lose yourself in others, too much and you isolate yourself to the point of lonesomeness. There is a balance between where you can fulfill your needs and wants , and validation seeking, but it is hard to achieve, and requires great self awareness, and the acceptance that sometimes things are painful. Most imoportantly you can never lose yourself in your wants and needs tghey can never control the decision making process, achieving them is a side affect of deciding what is best for you overall, which sometimes nmeans foregoing a want or need, because the situation itself is not good or healthy for you.

    You replied to my statement <<“Unfortunately people also feel like they were an idiot” << – Hey, if I walk like a duck… You know what too, it isn’t so much that I feel like an idiot now than it is that I am so p’d for having to GO BACK TO START.
    First I don't think you an idiot, the few times I met you, you seemed to have a good heart, and here in this blog you seem to be fairly self aware, which is a great thing. But you never go back to the start. It may seem that you do and you may slide back a bit, but each time you try to understand how and why you ended up where you did you learn to spot future problems a bit sooner, and learn to break free a little faster. You may never avoid all similar problems again, but you do become better equiped to deal with them. That is unless your just oblivious to who you are and how you became the person you are.

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  58. part 2
    Penny You said “No I wouldn’t have. I’d make the same choices. I love the BAND. I love the congregations’ participation. I love the singing the dancing the crazies the not so crazies - I love the preaching. I would plant myself in a seat again. It would be based on how it all made me FEEL.

    I am an X groupie who is… er… WAS so in love with “the band” (insert any exceptional band’s name in there) it is ridiculous. I also am well aware that it is trance inducing and combined with physical activity can leave a person quite vulnerable and hopped up on endorphins. I believe some of the praying and speaking in tongues accomplishes the same effect. “

    I actually love this its very honest, and very self aware. So lets look at this you planted yourself in a place that made you feel good, a place that offered a lot of things that met various needs and wants, The music, the people the preaching. All sounds good. However from other posts you then give too much of yourself, Time , money (which I'll address in a minute), which didn't make you feel good. Now from personal experience I know you can enjoy the music the people the preaching and even be involved in some groups without giving too much of your self, Oh they may try to get you to do more but so do lots of people in well meaning groups volunteers are are easy to over burden even unintentionally, and employers are notorious for pushing limits. It sounds like if you had learned to set boundaries (and overcome you unwillingness to say no, you might still be planted there, especially if you had not also worked there and been mistreated in that regard).
    It has been shown actually that Prayer and (meditation) have an effect on the brain, less sure about speaking in tounges (can't recall any sturies) but there have been a number of really good studies using Buddhist monks meditating and showing the effects on the brain.

    You said “I’m not sure if you (Sam) give credence to Oliver Saks, but he did all kinds of empirical studies about music’s affect on the human mind,”
    I'm actually a big Oliver Saks fan and receive his electronic newsletter. I am familiar with his studies on music, and as well as neurology in other areas. And there is no doubt that music has a profound effect on the brain and on mood. I have always said that one of the great things that CC had was their band. If you could get people through the door if nothing else the Band would bring many of them back (regardless of who was preaching) combined with the Dynamics of MP, and you have even more coming back, even when they know a lot of the history.

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  59. part 3

    Penny you said “Then, I invested in the GOD AS BANK MACHINE. I have a wondrous reputation as a cynic and skeptic. I truly trust no one – however, if there WAS even an iota of a chance that if I threw money into the tithe and offering that my life would somehow be manageable (not painless, mind you – I do know better – but manageable) I was going to at least TRY it. Looking back, how ridiculous! Hahahahhahhaha! When I didn’t have money, I did my work freelance for the church for free == or I would put extra time in == or I would get down and dirty with my recovery group or homeless folk. I still believe in doing all those things. I did before I got to CC – but for whatever convoluted reason, I was HOPING that CC would bring some kind of magic to get my $%&^ together. To this day, I have no idea WHY I thought that was even possible… except… well… we’ve all been there. But really - my focus was based on this bizarre fear that if I didn't tithe and serve, I'd be screwed.”
    Ahhh money the great driver. This is what gets most people not only in churches but in any scam. And is frequently a reason many “believers” don't go to church they don't want to give up or be hounded about money or giving. But most scams are based on getting people to give up money. The problem here is that you have the bible (even though the NT doesn't say you most tithe, it does say you should give with a happy heart and to your ability, and some even translate that you should give up everything like Jesus suggests), so people who go to church are inclined to believe that they should give at least some money. It is then just an easy push to God blesses those who give, and the more you give the more you are blessed. For a scam to work Con men will often portray them selves as being wealthier than they are, because who would take money advice from someone who appears to have less of it than you. CC was able to sell the idea of blessings because they came across as being blessed. But if one thinks about it if giving money actually produced tangible blessings (especially the multi fold return promised) the first week someone might tithe but when they received their blessing they would give even more, pretty soon riots would break out with people trying to give the church money....I never saw this. There will never be a shortage of people out to free you from your money, but I believe that being a good christian, as well as being a good person, requires that you help others when you are able, (and you should support the church you attend), so the only thing you can do is try to never give to anyone or anything more than your heart, and circumstances will allow.

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  60. Part 4
    Penny you said “I would like to add that part of that acceptance is allowing yourself to feel all the pain that goes with those past happenstances. (And isn’t THIS why I am an addict?) I loved CC because it medicated me. “
    I think feeling the pain is ok as long as you don't let it rule you. And that the experiencing the pain is by your choice and not that the circumstance or person(s) made you feel a certain way. It is one thing to say that MP made me mad (which puts the power in MP's actions not yours. And another thing to acknowledge that you have allowed your self to become angry , because you disagree with the way MP behaved. Its subtle I know but the second option puts the power in your hands.

    I like your comparing CC to a drug because it medicated you. Many times circumstances are a drug to us, filling wants and needs especially. We all have wants and needs, many tied to unresolved hurts that we badly want addressed and will often seek any way to get them met, even if it is not in our own best interest overall (Although the natural instinct is to act in our own best interest, these unresolved hurts will fixate on fulfilling these wants and needs to the extent that it will convince us that this is in our best interest when really it is just meeting the needs of some unresolved hurt). I think the bus analogy I gave is particularly pertinent here and for your circumstances. You seem to know what a lot of your unresolved issues might be, and what wants and needs that they want to fulfill, you just have to be aware that they are often driving your bus, and making decisions for you.
    Lastly I don't know what kind of an addict you are, but I will say that if you are not now, you appear to be headed to being addicted to recovery. Many here on this blog are experiencing the level of loss, and grief over leaving CC because being a member of CC is how they identified themselves in large, (meaning that that in some ways they could not separate themselves from CC, the great enmeshed word). Frequently people who go through recovery have a similar problem in that being broken and in recovery become a major identifier, to the extent that they fear being healthy or recovered because they don't know what that looks like or means. Now I know the 12 steppers will say once an alcoholic always an alcoholic, but I think although the potential to be an alcoholic is always there the potential to be healthy is always there as well and is the one I would rather identify my self a s being. (For those who 12 step programs work, I am happy for you).

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  61. AB said...
    @ Staying Free -- your comment to Confused No More and Aware -- was EXACTLY what I encountered and EXACTLY how I felt in coming to terms with my decision to leave. Have you been reading my mail?!? LOL


    @ AB ... Confirmation is a wonderful thing!! Thank you for your words confirming mine. :-)

    So many of us (not just from Cornerstone) have been on this journey.
    Getting Free is one thing ... however, I've learned that STAYING FREE is another.

    God Bless you AB and all of us as continue to be led by Holy Spirit and simply "Follow Jesus"

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  62. to eyeswideopen-and anyone else this applies to;

    You talk of prohecies over the years that never came true as proof that MP is a false prophet-

    Could it be the prohecies have not come true YET? remember people, God does not do a thing on Your time frame...How long did it take for Sarah to become pregnant? How old was she? How many years was it before the promised child Isaac was born?

    Maybe you all gave up alittle to early on believing they could and would come true, sounds more lke a faith issue (or lack thereof) with you than a false prophecy.. selah-

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  63. Voice of Reason,

    This is a typical response regarding pie in the sky prophecies that have not come to pass yet. It is also the way people manipulate people to keep giving until they are really disillusioned and wish they would have left ten years earlier.

    It puts people into condemnation and makes them think that it's all their fault if prophecies don't manifest in their life when in reality it was a false prophecy to manipulate people to give. God never spoke it. It's a fabrication of man to ensnare people and spiritually pick pocket them.

    It is a Manipulation and guilt tactic to make people co-dependent to hang around for another service and another offering.

    All of these prophecies center around things that are carnal. Dig more, keep pressing, your almost there, greatness, it's right around the corner, hang on, let go, and most importantly KEEP GIVING TO US.

    Why is it necessary for every "word from the Lord" to have an offering attached to it? This is not Biblical AT ALL.

    Can you have faith alone without buying the prophecy and still receive it?

    Where is sowing money seeds for a word to come to pass in the NT?

    Nobody gave up early. They got tired of everything and every word needing a money seed attached to it to come to pass and then found out it was never scriptural.

    Again, any time you want to translate one of Mike's messages to text, I will be more than happy to show you all the error and false teaching....

    Also, where is money seed sowing in the NT to get a blessing, breakthrough, or new Mercedes?

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  64. Isnt it the choice of the person hearing the word to give or not to give? If you sit in a service anywhere, and it comes time to give and you feel condemned for not giving, that is your issue. No one should ever feel condemned for not giving.I am not that easily manipulated. No preacher can convince me, manipulate or con me into attaching a seed to a prophecy or anything. I have a brain.

    I received a prophecy about 12 years ago. It did come to pass exactly as he said it would, 5 years later. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything carnal..but the reality is people live in a world where there are things they need, doors to be opened, favor in certain areas and God is in control of and cares about all of our needs and fortunatley for all the super spiritual people who dont need a place to live or a reliable vehicle or a job to feed their kids or healing, you wont ever have to go to God with those needs...but for those of us who rely on Him for everything we need and every breath we take and we cry out to Him in trust and adoration and He sends a prophet to let us know He heard us and He is doing thus and so...let us hear the prophets..they are scriptural.

    If you want to hate michael pitts then hate him, but he didnt make anyone give a dime and if he has that much control over your finances then you need help, it isnt his fault. If he is misusing Gods kids and stealing money from them then he will have to face God for that.

    I kind of feel sorry for all of you..You seem to be just so shut down and closed off to things you once believed in and particpated in...You have made this blog author your pastor and now he has all the answers..I mean wow..who is this person, does he/she have a church, are they runnin something? C'mon folks, it is an anonomous blogger who left this church years ago by thier own admission but is STILL watching online every week and critiqing the services..It may be time to move on..
    And dont worry, I wont be writing here agin, you can delete or not, dont care.. You can analize and scrutinize my motives and make sure eveyrone knows I am the one who is off but I am not watching services on line at a church I left years ago....I just couldnt resist..

    I hope you all find what you are looking for and get the healing you need.

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  65. To: Voice of Reason -Part 1

    Thank you for your comment. Perhaps you are new to the blog. We have written a very detailed article on the very subject --“The Fruit of False Prophets”. It is located to right side of the page. I simply ask that you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to show you HIS truth.

    Friend, the words I am about to say may offend you. But I speak these things in love. Not based on MY opinion. And certainly not some “fact finding mission” to defend all my righteous-reasons for leaving Cornerstone. For everyone has “reasons”. What I want to hear is –What does the Word of God say, so that the same mistakes we have witnessed are not repeated again. Agree??

    Men do not “remove” other men from leadership by speaking out against them or even removing their $upport. Men in leadership FIRST REMOVE THEMSELVES by not adhering to the Word of God.

    With that being said, the Bible is very clear. Scripture clearly outlines the Biblical Qualifications and Characteristics of a Bishop/Pastor/Elder that must CONTINUE to remain upheld, in order for those particular individuals to remain in those roles within the church. Agree??

    In regards to Prophets—
    A Prophet is one who has a message from God to His church. By every right, Prophets are not only "foretelling", but they are "forthtelling" --as they speak the Word of the Lord in order to edify, exhort, and comfort the people.

    We probably both agree on this:
    At times, a TRUE “word” or prophecy does NOT come to pass. Most often this is because the INDIVIDUAL has failed to cooperate with the WILL OF GOD that is necessary to bringing that particular prophecy TO pass. If you do not take the necessary steps nor fight the good fight of FAITH… most likely the prophecy WILL fall by the way side --Agree??

    (First the bad news)
    There have been many “Words” that have come across the platform over the last 20+ years at Cornerstone. Some have been specifically over the future of the people AND Michael Pitts. SOME WERE FROM GOD. Absolutely. They “were” from God… However, if you do not hearken to the WILL of God, how can the WORD of God come to pass? (For the Word and the Will are one in the same.)

    (Good News for YOU)
    The Words that God has spoken over YOUR individual life can STIL come to pass! Perhaps they will not come to pass in the “way” you thought they would. Often times when we initially receive a “word”, we have a tendency to immediately paint a picture of the “vehicle” in which it will come forth in. But it is AS we cooperate with the Will of God, that the Word of God unfolds and things begin to manifest. selah

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  66. @ Voice of Reason:
    "Maybe you all gave up alittle to early on believing they could and would come true, sounds more like a faith issue (or lack thereof) with you than a false prophecy.. selah- "

    I believe in Christ Jesus. I don't need prophecies to "give" me anything - prove anything - in fact, I'm quite skeptical of the whole "So sayeth the Lord" thing. If God is going to tell someone something about me, I'll wait until He tells ME ... THEN I will come into agreement. And He WILL tell me -- I have the Living Light within me.

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  67. Part 2--
    False Prophet?? “Faith” issue for those that left??

    Friend, I understand where you are coming from. It would be easier for most to just stick their heads back in the sand and keep assuring themselves that “everything is ok” –but it’s not. And your heart will usually know this first...

    This is NOT a lack of FAITH “issue” for those that left –actually it’s the opposite. To say that someone “gave up” on the words spoken over Cornerstone and simply lost faith and left…. IS simply a case of “reasoning” for the sake of protecting your hopeful investment in ever persistant "promise" of "it's on the way". Unless you walk away yourself --you will never know how much FAITH it took in doing so.

    Friend, the TRUE Prophetic Words spoken over Michael Pitts will NOT come to pass if he does not cooperate with the Word/Will of the Holy Spirit. End of story. And there is nothing YOU or ME or ANYONE else can do about THAT. That is HIS choice. You can pray for an individual's heart to change, but holding onto the LIABILITY of something (that does NOT belong to YOU) is another thing.

    Placing guilt on members to “Hold up the Arms of Moses” is nothing more than damage control teachings out of context with OT scripture. Now ALL believers are to stand up and hold up the “Word of God/His Vision”.

    Again---what I am about to say will most likely offend you. I expect this, but know that I speak my words very carefully and have not spoken hastily.

    •What is a False Prophet? A FALSE PROPHET IS one who comes in the Name of God, but with their own personal agenda.

    ••A False Prophet can carry a Bible and be accompanied by supernatural gifts, yet they mislead by DRAWING PEOPLE TO THEMSELVES instead of pointing them to follow the Voice of the Holy Spirit for themselves. (i.e. a pastor setting himself up as a "higher voice", not to mention the plethora of “damage control” messages spoken as the "Word of the Lord" for the night -for example)

    •••A “prophet” can speak a word (and it could come to pass) but he is to be REJECTED if he leads you into IDOLATRY (placing himself as your spiritual covering), COVETOUSNESS (constant prophecies and pressure for gain), OR REBELLION (which would be to lead you to follow his false teachings). *Please take a moment to think about that if you don’t consider any thing else I’ve shared….

    What FRUIT are you seeing at Cornerstone? It’s SO MUCH more than holding down the fort to "wait" for someone’s “words” to come to pass. For the list of "timely words" (false and true) that have been spoken over the platform of Cornerstone are a mile long.

    Michael uses his platform to speak the "Word" of God --but some of what he is SAYING, God has not SAID. What would be the motivation??

    The scriptures in II Pet. 2 explain:
    “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will SECRETLY INTRODUCE DESTRUCTIVE HERESIES, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. IN THEIR GREED these teachers WILL EXPLOIT YOU with fabricated stories." --You decide.

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  68. And lastly Voice of Reason:

    To sum it up, Michael and Robert are masters of the art of VICTIMIZING themselves and VILLAINIZING everyone else “out there”. Why? Because they are NOT ABLE to demonstrate true FRUIT, much less the "words" spoken over the years. You can try to manufacture fruit, but artificial will always remain a 2nd rate effort at best. This is EXACTLY why the Police, the City of Toledo, and all former members and Pastors are blamed. Because THEY REFUSE to take ownership of their OWN actions.

    If Michael and Robert truly are following the Will of God… could they not take this city FOR God?? Nothing could stop them, but themselves. Agree??

    Friend, we love you but we are not in the business of “convincing” anyone to leave Cornerstone. You have to search this out for yourself, as you are quite an intelligent person I’m sure. Search the scriptures, pray for discernment. And at the end of the day, what you find may very well break your heart…. but it WILL FREE you to GO on and fulfill God’s Word over your life! This is why this blog was created, to help people sort through the process that awaits every single one of us.

    Your future is waiting only on YOU…

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  69. Voice of Reason:

    In regards to your 2nd comment.

    You may disagree or even "brush off" those that left. But stating that they no longer believe in giving or the office of a Prophet -this is simply not the case. Please read through the comments and articles...

    I cannot speak for everyone (of course) and perhaps there are some who question things they were taught --not just from Cornerstone, but even before they attended there. Asking questions and revisiting scripture to solidify the truth you have been taught, could do nothing BUT help one strengthen themselves in the Word..

    As far as your comment that some "hate Michael" --really?? Friend, this is simply not the case…

    Lastly, you attempt to "discredit" my ability to help others by stating that I am not Pastoring or "running anything". How would you know this?

    But let’s “say” you are correct in your assumption: Wouldn’t it only work to FURTHER prove the point? –That someone (even without a title or “important position”) was able to face the “two giants” of Spiritual Abuse at Cornerstone….. all without anyone being able to present a single, valid scriptural argument to refute it.

    When all is said and done, God will lead each individual family down the path He has for them. We trust that God is able to finish what He started. And that will have to be the "common ground" between us for now friend.

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  70. To Voice of Reason,

    Part 1
    I am sorry that you feel like those of us who left didn’t have the faith to stay, that if we would have stayed that we would have seen these “prophecies” unfold. Let me address one misconception first. I think it odd that you say that we didn’t see the” words spoken over us fulfilled.” Well I can tell you in all sincerity that I never had a “word” spoken over me in ten years. I saw MP, RP, DT and almost everybody else on staff “get a word” every time we had a conference. I find it odd that God would continually send a “prophets” to only the staff. Yes, Prophecy is given to the believers to comfort, exhort, confirm, and ….. However, let us examine the difference between words of wisdom and words of knowledge and true prophecy. Words of knowledge and wisdom differ in that they are used on a personal level to minister to someone individually. I personally operate in all three gifts, as they run together most times. I have been told by more than several people how accurate and razor-sharp these abilities are. With that being said…..True prophecy given from a public platform should give direction, correction, and edification to the whole church body, not just lifts up the leadership. CORRECTION YOU SAY?!!!! YES, THERE IS ALWAYS COMFORT IN CORRECTION. Look at Jeremiah and Isaiah. Do I still believe in prophecy? Absolutely!!! But can you remember the last time a word of prophecy came from within the congregation? In the NT, we are taught that there should only be 2-3 prophecies at a time.
    1 Cor 14:26-29 26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
    In the NT churches, there weren’t Prophets that were brought in. Prophecy came from within the church body. In the last five years at CC that I was there, there was NEVER a word of prophecy that came from within the body.

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  71. Voice of Reason,

    Part 2
    Why do you think MP always brought “Prophets” from outside sources? Control. He, by nature of paying them large sums of money, could in essence control what and who was prophesied to. Remember Mary Ann Brown, she gave a prophecy to MP that there would be a “second stripping,” right after the exposure incident. Which did occur….the DUIs. Never saw her again, did you? And guess what??? She was RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!! Let’s talk about Nina Marie Leslie….the last real prophecy. Go back and listen to it. It was a warning about Holiness. ….choosing to be HOLY. Right after that was when the second DUI occurred. Just because someone can (by their gift) can tell you something true about a situation, does not mean that they are really prophesying. What do you think that psychics are? I can look at someone and by the gift that God has given me, tell them things that nobody knows about, however I could, hypothetically tell them that they are going to get rich by starting a business. Wouldn’t that person then believe that I gave them a real word, based on the fact that the first part of what I told them was true? This is exactly what “Prophets” like Brian Carn do. They use their gift to either glorify themselves, or use them for financial gain.
    As far as me not having enough faith to stay at CC….the words that GOD SPOKE over my life HAVE come to pass. I didn’t need any prophet to tell me that I have the heart of a shepherd. He told me the day I got saved. What didn’t I stay for? Do you really believe that MP was going to set me up in a church to shepherd? How much has that happened lately? I couldn’t even get any agreement from the staff about what I felt God was putting in my heart. All I got was “Why do you think God wants you to be a pastor?” I GUESS I WAS HAVING DELUSIONS OF GRANDER, HUH? Well, I am a pastor now, so I guess I WAS right. Is it comforting to have someone confirm those things in our heart, of course? But I think that anyone has the ability to prophesy. Prophecy is speaking what God has already spoken. It isn’t deep. Do some have greater gifts, of course they do, and God uses them differently.

    Let me also address the fact that I did not leave to “start my own thing” because I thought I wasn’t being utilized at CC. Are you kidding? I was living my dream!! Preaching regularly, teaching a class, motoring people……. I really thought by leaving, that I was ruining my chance to pastor others. If you read my article, I fully explained that whole submission process. This is the poison that unhealthy leadership spews; we are all mad, off or disgruntled. Obviously I was none of those. However, at the end of the day, you will choose to believe what you want to believe about me or anyone else that left. You want to believe the lies about us. Why you ask? Because it is easier that facing the machine, or standing up to “the man.” You my friend are living in the Matrix. I chose to step out of the Matrix. I have not an ounce of hatred for MP, RP, or anyone that is still there. I am full of sorrow for you all, that you have access to the same freedom that I do, but you won’t remove the blinders. NOT CAN’T, BUT WON’T…….I will continue to pray for you because Jesus still opens blind eyes. Oh yeah, BTW, I DO STILL BELIEVE IN MIRACLES.

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  72. ROCK ON PENNY THE PROPHET!!!

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  73. so sayeth the Lord... "werd."

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  74. voice of reason sounds like mp

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  75. To Anonymous 12:00 PM,

    I don't know why you make such a comment as Voice Of Reason sounds like MP. People make comments like that & have no basis for it, other than perhaps an argument or just to be ridiculous or get some dialogue going.

    MP is not commenting on this blog. He may perhaps be reading it or have others reading it, but he will not lower himself to comment on it.

    Furthermore, Voice of Reason sounds nothing like Michael, rather more like one of his indoctrinated minions defending him. V.O.R has to once again make those of us who left sound like we are the "off" ones & that this blog author needs to get a life so to speak or get over the Stone already.

    And no, MP did not make any of us give of our hard earned money, but he did do a whole lot of manipulating with the Word of God to get us to give. He also was good at throwing around guilt & making statements such as "we need 100% participation in giving".

    Nonetheless, we all left for good reason & that was the doctrinal unsoundness of MP & RP & all of their cronies. And even now, after the blog author & all of the commentors have spoken out in truth, MP is now trying to bring the Bible back to his preaching. However, it is a bit too late & he is still twisting Scripture to fit his belief system & doctrine.

    And at the end of the day, he is still a false teacher regardless of all of his other human failings & flaws. Twisting scripture for gain is hardly excusable and can't be written off as just being human. It is deceptive and goes back to control & manipulation & the wrong spirit that has entered that house.

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