Article Submitted by:
BlueMarlin48
The Characteristics of a Pastor
Isaiah 40:11: “He shall FEED his flock like a shepherd: he shall GATHER the lambs with his arm, and CARRY them in his bosom, and shall gently LEAD those that are with young.”
This scripture is a messianic prophecy given to identify the Messiah when He appears, along with many other Old Testament prophecies given to Israel
Jesus Christ himself was the ultimate example and model for a New Testament Pastor.
#1. “He shall FEED his flock like a shepherd.”
A pastor must first of all be called to preach the gospel. The call to preach is a prerequisite to the five fold ministry listed in Ephesians 4:11. The apostle Paul in I Timothy 2:7 and II Timothy 1:11 stated that he was first a preacher, secondly an apostle, and thirdly a teacher. There needs to be a time preparation and maturity to make full proof of their ministry. How can a minister feed the flock of God if he has not first prepared himself in Word and prayer? The office of a pastor is so closely related to that of a teacher, that in some ancient manuscripts the words “pastor” and “teacher” are given as one word. A pastor should also seek the Lord in prayer as to receive from the Holy Spirit a fresh message on a regular basis and avoid the favorite hobby horse message that favors his own personal agenda. The message of a pastor would differ from that of an itinerant ministry, such as an evangelist or prophet.
#2. “…he shall GATHER the lambs with his arm,”
#2. “…he shall GATHER the lambs with his arm,”
In John’s gospel chapter 10 there is a beautiful analogy of the shepherd and sheep relationship. In verse fourteen Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.” God has a people for every pastor, for every pastor is unique in his own ministry. Most sheep will not know this until they are introduced to the pastor’s ministry. I Corinthians 12:18 “But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body as it has pleased him.” There will be a witness of the Spirit that will bring a pastor and his sheep together in the Body of Christ...
A confidence of love and trust to shepherd and sheep, that allows mutual respect to knit a bond of unity for the greater task of establishing the Kingdom of God on the earth.
This is why it can be traumatic for church members to leave the flock when that trust has been betrayed. However, we must never take out our hurt feelings in an unchristian way. That is why it is good to seek the counsel of others who have experience in these matters and display a positive message. Only our Lord Jesus can restore our emotional trauma; for he alone is the Chief Shepherd and our commitment should be to Him and not to man.
#3. “…and CARRY them in his bosom,”
In order for the shepherd to carry them he must be close enough TO them. The obvious evidence in a church setting is the pastor makes himself available to his members on a regular basis. I enjoy seeing a pastor and his wife at the front of the church to greet the people as they leave. Even in the setting of a large church, the pastor should be in a conspicuous place so that any church member has access to him. The sheep should never be made to feel "out of place" if they need to speak to their shepherd. It seems to be
fashionable for successful pastors who have gained credibility in ministry to accept invitations to speak, which will take them away from their church for extended periods of time. If they want an itinerant ministry they should resign their pastorate and go out into the field. To carry in your bosom, means that you love your flock more than your personnel success. The shepherd will guard his flock against the wiles of the enemy; and will spend time in prayer watching for even the very appearance of evil. It cannot be over stated the importance for the pastor to watch and pray; because the enemy is continually looking for a place to cause the demise of God’s plan. A pastor needs to be protective of his flock even if it means removing family members and staff if they are doing real harm to the Body of Christ. A real shepherd will not allow any ungodliness to continue, remember that a little leaven leaveneth up the whole lump.
#4. “…he shall GENTLY lead those that are with young.”
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In order for the shepherd to carry them he must be close enough TO them. The obvious evidence in a church setting is the pastor makes himself available to his members on a regular basis. I enjoy seeing a pastor and his wife at the front of the church to greet the people as they leave. Even in the setting of a large church, the pastor should be in a conspicuous place so that any church member has access to him. The sheep should never be made to feel "out of place" if they need to speak to their shepherd. It seems to be
fashionable for successful pastors who have gained credibility in ministry to accept invitations to speak, which will take them away from their church for extended periods of time. If they want an itinerant ministry they should resign their pastorate and go out into the field. To carry in your bosom, means that you love your flock more than your personnel success. The shepherd will guard his flock against the wiles of the enemy; and will spend time in prayer watching for even the very appearance of evil. It cannot be over stated the importance for the pastor to watch and pray; because the enemy is continually looking for a place to cause the demise of God’s plan. A pastor needs to be protective of his flock even if it means removing family members and staff if they are doing real harm to the Body of Christ. A real shepherd will not allow any ungodliness to continue, remember that a little leaven leaveneth up the whole lump.
Ezekiel 34: 1-6 is the Biblical standard of the DUTY of a shepherd. There the prophet chastises the shepherds who eat from the flock but have not fed the flock. Who are clothed from the flock but have not strengthened the diseased, have not healed that which was sick, or bound up that which was broken, and have not brought again that which was driven away. It’s sad to say that many of our pastors today are more concerned with a fat pay check than making any sacrifices for the benefit of the people. This is not to say all pastors are unworthy of their calling; there are more pastors that have a true servant’s heart than do not.
When there is a big turn over of quality members in a church, being replaced by new people, it is a sure sign that the church is built on the personality of the pastor and not on a deeper relationship with Christ. If you are gone from a church for an extended period of time and come back to visit, and you can hardly recognize the people -it should tell you that something is very wrong. Remember that a true pastor has the ability to carry the lambs in his bosom. We understand that people change or move away; however when there is a large turn over of the very foundation of key people it’s time start asking questions.
#4. “…he shall GENTLY lead those that are with young.”
To shepherd a flock has to be one of the most challenging callings because you are dealing with both human nature and man’s spiritual side as well. Unlike a coach who can set players down, or a boss who can remove employees without question, a pastor must remember that members are volunteers. A pastor cannot possibly know the divine destiny of people, without first relying upon the guidance of the Holy Spirit who alone knows the heart. When the Prophet Samuel went to the house of Jesse to anoint one of his sons as King of Israel, he would have chosen the oldest or strongest. But only God knew that David was a man after God’s own heart.
You will know if your labours were appreciated, you will be given every courtesy if you chose to leave. A member should never be degraded for leaving a position or for leaving the church. When a shepherd gently leads, it is with unselfish sacrificial love.
This is why Jesus said, “No greater love hath a man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.”
Lastly, a Pastor needs to be LONGSUFFERING in order to keep the unity in the bonds of peace. Only the love of God for his flock, the supernatural leadership of the Spirit, and the preaching of the Word can truly make a Pastor after God’s own heart.
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BlueMarlin48 is a Minister of 40 yrs. Thank you for taking the time to provide us with a portion of your teaching on the Characteristics of a Pastor. Those who have been touched by your ministry are eternally grateful for your dedication and integrity.
wow that was really good, I'm still looking for a pastor who behaves the way it is described in this post.
ReplyDeletePart 1
ReplyDeleteThank you BlueMarlin48 for a well stated article on the characteristics of a true pastor.
Unfortunately after 18+ years of faithful tithing & serving under the so-called pastor, now "bishop" of CStone, none of the above courtesies was extended upon leaving. There was no grace extended, no thank for years of faithful, voluntary service given. That was expected period as our duty as chrisitians.
Degrading you for stepping down or leaving became part of the standard fare under the despotic headship at CStone.
I am sorry that the man I once considered my pastor who once had a heart for his sheep (I think, not sure anymore)can no longer be found. He is no longer recognizable as the pastor I once loved to serve under.
Michael Pitts unfortunately became side-tracked through the years with rubbing elbows with "spiritual men" of questionable character as well. The spirits that were on them eventually were sown into Michael. He came to be of a different heart & spirit & spent long periods of time away from his sheep & had no inkling of the condition of "his flock". After all, he made it clear to us through the years, "That it ain't about you.You ain't here to get your needs met every week."
And of course, the itinerant "preachers" Like Duncan Billians who come to preach, let the flock also know that we should be praying for our pastor so as to keep him from being attacked by the devil.It becomes the abusive guilt style of preaching where the sheep are made to feel guilty for not praying for their pastor 7 this is why he is under such "attack".
What about the sheep under attack for standing up for him all of these years & facing all manner of nasty & hurtful comments for defending Michael's behavior all these years??? Where were his prayers & concern for us? Oh that's right, we are not supposed to be weary in well-doing & praying for our pastor. Well, is it really well doing when one has to continually defend the ungodly, unpastoral behavior of one's "pastor"?
Part 2
ReplyDeleteWhy is it the devil is given to have so much more power than God himself?? If God is greater, why is so much attributed to the attacks of the devil? God is great & wonderful when it comes to sowing & being blessed, but not when it comes to protecting from the attacks of the enemy??
That's because there are natural consequences related to sin that the devil has nothing to do with. It's the principle of reaping what you sow, good or bad. That's it people. It's simple.
But sending in a powerhouse like Duncan Billians
to preach about the devil sounds so spiritual & can explain all these evil comments from the devil trying to destroy Michael. Yea. right. This is truth & sometimes the devil just don't like the truth. Truth exposes the devil and his tactics.
Sometimes & I venture most of the time, it is our flesh & thought life, not the devil. Yes, Satan can plant thoughts, but someone the caliber of Michael can certainly use the Word to combat the enemy just as we are commanded to. But then again, all that is preached to us doesn't apply to them, the untouchables. It's put on us & we are expected to live up to all that the Word says we are to do & be, but not Michael & Robert who is by no means a pastor as his title would imply. Neither is Janet Wend for that matter. Business pastor?? Administrative pastor??? Where is that listed chapter & verse in the Bible?? Lots of questions, no answers ever given.
Michael simplye became unavailable to us & it just became acceptable because he had messages to justify it & visiting ministry came in to prophesy & preach that Michael was being used as an apostle to establish churches & would need to be away more & we should honor that & be mature enough to allow him to do that.
That's all well & good, but he should have appointed someone else to step in as the pastor of "his sheep" if that is where his focus was going to be. And the rest of his "pastoral" staff could hardly be considered pastors either. David Banks was the closest thing to having a pastor's heart.
Over time, the real focus of Michael was no longer his flock. He had "greater" things to do & in the process he lost his love for his sheep. He became self-absorbed with "God's vision" aka his vision. And through the years his name was high & lifted up, more than the name of Jesus. It was all about him & he was in essence sacrificing his sheep rather than sacrificing for "his sheep". His sheep were expected to serve scrificially for him, not vice versa.
There wasn't any gentle leading or sacrificial love, just harshness, guilt & manipulation tactics to keep "his sheep" in place.
And in the process, my spirit no longer felt connected to Michael as "my pastor" & certainly not my "covering". I could no longer sit under the prideful spirit that seduced Michael to become what he has become - cold & distanced, uncaring for those in need of a true pastor.
So, I now look to my true Shepherd, Jesus Christ to restore my trust, to heal the hurts of leaving a church & people I once felt connected to in so many ways.
In reading the post above, I feel like I need to set something straight. I only say this because the person above is obviously still learning to undo their thinking after leaving the Stone.
ReplyDeleteSheep should not be thought of as serving under a shepherd, they are to serve alongside their shepherd. But considering the domineering preaching taught at CStone, the headship wants you to feel & believe that you are supposed to serve under them to keep the sheep in their submissive positions.
It takes a long time to undo some 20 years of doctrine & unscriptural protocols. Don't mean anything by it personally, Not My Pastor Anymore. I just had to make it straight for the sheep.
As the article says above, a true pastor feeds, gathers, leads, & carries the sheep. A shepherd does not lord over the sheep or drive them as if they are a herd of cattle.
No offense Not My Pastor Anymore, as you had some very good things to say. I agree that MP became unavailable to the sheep of his pasture & that he truly is not recognizable as the pastor he once was.
I can only hope & pray that those remaining who may be struggling with leaving look at the handwriting on the wall & follow the leading of the Holy Spirit within them.
Too many good people have left & not one pastor cared to listen & make things right. Robert most definitley should not be operating in the office of a pastor. He needs to get his life together & sit down instead of acting like all is well with his soul. Lead by example Robert. If you want to run businesses, do it outside of the church & pay taxes like the rest of us. Stop running your for profit ventures as if they are nonprofit for the church. I never saw Jesus as a shrewd businessman. He hated the temple being used as a den of thieves.
Perhaps MP & RP should read this pastor 101 article & rethink their "calling" in life. Pastors do not fleece their sheep or leave them wandering wounded in the pasture. I guess that is why so many of us left & went on to reacquaint ourselves with the true Shepherd & some have even gone on to trust others who exhibit the characteristics of a true pastor.
For those still seeking a pastor, fear not for God is with you & will lead you to the shepherd you should connect yourself to. Read these very simple qualities of a pastor & seek those out, not someone who makes all kinds of promises if you sow your seed, & draws attention to himself & puts on a show to keep you coming back.
Clearly MP has been reading this blog as he is deperately trying to counteract all that he has read here & his guest ministries have clearly been told what to address to quell the controversy surrounding the truth on this blog, & I suppose in his mind he is now trying to act like a pastor as if he really cares about you & loves you. Don't be fooled. At the first sign of a sinking ship, he will be gone.
It's all a matter of time. As Leroy said, Tic toc, tic toc. Even Robert's right hand man who worked in the maintenace dept. has now left & he was as close to Robert as a brother. Wonder what secrets he took with him & what he foresaw that sent him leaving after some 25 years. Makes you wonder....
LOOKING said:
ReplyDeleteI'm still looking for a pastor who behaves the way it is described in this post.
Is there one that truly exists? Personally, I do not believe there is one. I believe that perhaps the best ideal, of course, is Christ. A pastor, maybe (?) is a person who, although falling short like the rest of us schmucks, understands their responsibilities AND understands themselves and their issues. One of the most poignant things for me is the act of communion. At the last supper - Jesus tells us to remember him WHENEVER we eat and drink. The Bible tells us that passover was a time of self reflection.
This would be the fearless inventory I am responsible to do. Then, having done that - start the process of change and making amends. The shortcoming with this is: denial is a powerful thing. That coupled with being in a position of leadership -- well who wants to publicly be transparent? It's hard enough admitting to the immediate family I'm an *******.
I am pretty sure I will be happy with a Pastor who is human, who KNOWS he is human - and who doesn't use being human as an excuse.
Who knows. At my last fearless inventory I was none too happy with what I saw. Feh.
NOT MY PASTOR said:
ReplyDeleteYes, Satan can plant thoughts, but someone the caliber of Michael can certainly use the Word to combat the enemy just as we are commanded to.
I realise this comment was made in my 1st tongue: sarcasm, but I want to take it at face value for the sake of bloviating.
Yes and no. Someone the caliber of Michael? The way people portray him he is either a GOLDEN BOY or he is a **** HEAD.
Somewhere in there is a human being full of anguish and hurt. Somewhere. I mean, that is basically whom we all are.
I really hate the whole, "The devil is attacking" schpiel. It is some of the most ridiculous, fear feeding rhetoric I have EVER had the displeasure of hearing. Not only that, to see the EFFECTS it has on some people??
I know of an incident of someone having a panic attack who was convinced it was THE DEVIL ATTACKING. I have heard people talk about the headship being under attack, the church being under attack - it is all spiritual warfare. Ok.
What I see is a bunch of grown adults grasping around in the dark half scared out of their wits to NOT tear down those strongholds and towers. FEAR. I saw it. I smelled it. I tasted it. I experienced it. Fear, when not experienced in the healthy sense (WHICH IS A WARNING), does nothing but feed dysfunction.
I remember at the 2nd DUI there were a lot of people praying over the seats in the sanctuary. The discussions were about how the MAN was out to get Pastor. I kept thinking that it wasn't anything a sincere 12 step program couldn't help with...
I must confess - I was happy he got caught. I even told people I was happy that he got caught. I hope I wasn't the only one who was happy. Because I know that when people hit bottom and recognize it for what it is, it can truly be the moment that they first see the light. You think because we all have Jesus that we are magically immune? Guess again. It's superstitious thinking that gets me in trouble.
And trust me, my pit can get pretty deep. The devil didn't dig it, I did. The devil didn't push me in, I jumped in. God didn't lift me out of it either. He did light a candle that looked like a friggin beacon of life. It was up to me to crawl out. He was there and still is there - every step of the way.
I know it isn't up to me to talk about his recovery. But when he has lost his license and still gets tickets for driving under a suspended license... eh... a little compulsive for my taste. Of course, this comes from someone who gleefully drives without a seat belt while talking on the cell.
It's a lot of work. Who wants to do that much work? Especially when there are wells/pits to dig.
Penny,
ReplyDeleteYou shared some good thoughts. No, self reflection is never pretty & yes it is much easier just to go with the flow & attribute everything to the devil or someone is out to get you becasue they don't agree with you.
And yes, the sad reality is that pastors are human just as we are, prone to sin and moments of weakness, anger acted out in ungodly ways and so on. But as you said, I can live with that as long as my pastor admits his humaness & shows some humility, fesses up & asks forgiveness.
The problem comes when we like Adam & Eve try to cover our sin & shame rather than giving it to Jesus in a true spirit of humility. And yes, ultimately we must crawl out of the pit we dig at times in our lives. But thanks be unto to God that it is in those times we can grab the arms of a loving God to help pull us out. We are all given God given opportunities for a 2nd,3rd & 4th chance & God will send others into our lives, as well as situations to open our eyes. It is up to us to see the light & take advantage of every opportunity & every person God sends our way to help us out of our miry times in life.
Having said that, no there will never be a perfect pastor, but certainly one must look to the characteristics listed above & determine whether the man they choose to serve alongside is truly their pastor based on the scriptural charactersitics listed above. If not, then one has to make the decision based on God's leading whether to stay or go.
For me, that decsision became clear when I lost my connection to MP based on his lifestyle & continued poor choices & the wrong spirits he brought into CStone which affected everyone, both those who recognized it & those who didn't. Those who refuse to see Michael's seducing & Jezebelic spiritual influence are the ones we should pray for as well as for those of us still trying to make our way through our decision to leave.
Either way, we have all been influenced by what has been & is being sown spiritually at CStone. For those of us who have left, we are merely choosing to sort through the BS so to speak & get to the truth as it is presented in the proper light God's Word, not MP's twisted version of select verses of Scripture meant for his gain. And that is why he is not my pastor anymore. I no longer recognize his voice as the voice of my pastor.
>>The problem comes when we like Adam & Eve try to cover our sin & shame rather than giving it to Jesus in a true spirit of humility.<<
ReplyDeleteI remember MP having a service and doing an altar call for addicts. I went up there. I looked around - there were like... oh... maybe 15 people. I remember saying loudly, "O - SOMEONE is LYING!" Seriously, 15 people out of a then almost 3000?
Anyway - I remember looking down and MP praying over us, etc. He spoke to me then I heard him say, "Look at me - LOOK AT ME." I looked up and he made eye contact and said, "There is no shame here."
I keep that close to my heart and I often repeat, "There is no shame here," to my recovery friends. It's funny... I didn't identify that as the voice of my pastor -- I knew it was God speaking right to lil ol me. I am still amazed.
But I digress - although I am quite thankful for that wonderful memory. God is so good.
Anyway, I am finding it to be a razor's edge that people have SO MUCH to say about what "they" are doing "wrong" and what "they" need to do "right." Man, that sounds WAY too familiar for me.
@Setting it Straight: "Even Robert's right hand man who worked in the maintenace dept. has now left & he was as close to Robert as a brother. Wonder what secrets he took with him & what he foresaw that sent him leaving after some 25 years. Makes you wonder.... "
What would you do with the information if you had it? Seems to me the validation is screaming louder than ever: it doesn't matter what the details are - the results are right in front of us.
@Penny,
ReplyDeleteIf I had the info, I would og to him as a brother in the Lord & tell him that he needs to get his act together & repent & cry out to God for mercy. And if that didn't work, then the Bible is clear what we are to do - take it to another and try to deal with it. If that's a no go, well, you shake the dust from your feet & move on.
And yes, the results are smacking people in the face, but in light of a hireling and not a pastor at the Stone, none of those things is ever properly dealt with. They just bring in guest ministry to gloss things over & make it look like it's all an attack & the people need to pray harder.
Then Michael preaches messages to make it look like all is well there & again its them out there, the naysayers trying to stop us cause they ain't got the revelation.
And the beats goes on.....
Setting it Right:
ReplyDelete"If I had the info, I would og to him as a brother in the Lord & tell him that he needs to get his act together & repent & cry out to God for mercy."
Really? We could go to him about Amy. About the issue of tithing. His divorce. About some of the suspicious things with the TV and Radio station. We have an entire hat full of tricks.
Or better yet, go to the man as a brother in the Lord -- and ask him your questions yourself. Give him the dignity of being a human being. The worse that will happen is that he won't speak with you. EVER AGAIN (hahhha).
I am NOT being snide -- this is an important dynamic in recovery. Of course, I have to ask myself what good it will do me; will it push buttons, what are all the possible outcomes and is my support system in place in case I am triggered somehow.
You did say that if it 'doesn't work' "If that's a no go, well, you shake the dust from your feet & move on."
The best friend who was like a brother comes to mind - hm. Seems to me he was reading the same Bible you are. :)
I think what “Setting it Straight” is trying do is --highlight the scriptures that instruct us on how to deal with sin/error within the church.
ReplyDeleteMatt. 18: 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Of course we all know by now that Cornerstone’s leadership structure is not set up in a way that one could fully carry out the above scriptures. At best, the average “Joe Member” can bring his/her findings before one of the Pastors, but what is actually done WITH what has been presented is obviously ALSO part of the problem at hand. Most members are told, “Hang in there.”. “I’ll let Bishop know.” “We understand.” At the end of the day-- what is being brought to the light is never dealt with, but rather swept under the rug, or labeled with either “attack” or “hearsay”.
Members are then forced to either accept what they know is not right within the church or leave the church altogether. All the while, Banks, Smith, and Wendt continue keeping the charade going with their pacifying words to the members and their continual enablement of Michael and Robert. Is there a REAL
Pastor left in the house?? If there were, they would tell the sheep to LEAVE due to the CONTINUAL UNSCRIPTURAL LEADERSHIP METHODS. And they THEMSELVES would follow the sheep –right out the front door. Why exit out the back door in shame??
I say this because, many members have been told by Staff that they KNOW what’s going on and they DON’T agree with it. Well, if that is the case…why do you continue to hold the “position” of a Pastor, but do NOT fulfill the duties of a true Pastor –as CLEARLY stated above in the article by BlueMarlin48??
So yes, shake the dust off your feet and KEEP WALKING friends. It's not easy, but there IS a great journey ahead of you -of freedom and joy in serving the Lord with others!! God will direct your path --don't allow yourself to become bitter toward Godly leadership. **Remember, MUCH of what we were “taught” about leadership, came from an abusive leader himself.
A Godly Pastor will point you toward following Christ for YOURSELF. He will never usurp the role of the Lord, by drawing you to follow himself instead. He is NOT YOUR COVERING. A TRUE Pastor is one who cares for you and comes along side of you –gently leading you. His HEART will be FOR you...to help YOU fulfill the plans of God FOR YOUR LIFE. Not the other way around.
We have to learn to TRUST again. This will come in time…so be patient my friends and let not your heart be troubled.
To Speaking the Truth in Love,
ReplyDeleteOnce again thank you for this blog and the truth and insights it brings. This article on Characteristics of a Pastor is so very helpful to those of us re-learning what a true shepherd is to his sheep.
I am so glad to have someone with the true heart of a pastor contribute this article. Those of us who have sat in churches with abusive pastors for 10 or more years really need to re-learn these things & in time build trust in another man/woman as our pastor. It is not easy & takes time & a willingness to open your heart & life to a spiritual leader again.
I am sure that most of us who left CStone want to trust again and be a part of church life once again as we had been for so long at CStone. It is just too bad that a man who considers himself a pastor, oops now bishop, has no heart for the condition of the souls who have left his flock & neither do the other so called pastors. Woe to the shepherd who scatters the sheep.
I guess Michael was too busy with his travels & running with the big dogs to "pastor" his sheep. Then again as sheep we were always reminded that it ain't about us anyway. Oh yea, I forgot it was all about him (not HIM or His sheep).
I truly enjoyed the insights of BlueMarlin48. How refreshing to see a pastor with a heart toward God and His people. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteConcerning the characteristics of a Pastor, I have always found the Pauline priorities extremely helpful, as well. In Acts chapter 20, Paul was saying his final farewell to the elders at Ephesus. This was the last time he was going to see them… EVER! With that fact clearly in mind, we can assume that he set aside all the peripheral issues, and cut to the chase. He was never going to see them again, so he concentrated on the most urgent points of the biblical role of the elder/pastor. Among other things he mentioned the following:
Part I
(v.19) He served with HUMILITY… (It truly is not about the pastor/preacher… it is about Jesus Christ and Him crucified.)
(v.20) He preached what was HELPFUL TO THE FLOCK… (Let’s find a way to touch the heart of God’s people… they are our mission.)
(v.21) He preached REPENTANCE AND FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST…. (Jesus, Jesus, Jesus… there’s just something about that name!!!)
(v.22) He considered HIS OWN LIFE WORTH NOTHING IF HE COULD JUST FINISH THE RACE SET BEFORE HIM BY JESUS… (It is not about our vision, our mission, our wells… it is about the mission, vision, and wells that Jesus set before us.)
to be continued...
Pauline Priorities continued...
ReplyDeletePart II
(v. 27) He proclaimed THE ENTIRE COUNSEL OF GOD… (Preach the entire Bible… that which causes a shout… and that which may not bring a shout.)
(v.28) He charged them to KEEP WATCH OVER THE FLOCK… (Protect them, love them, watch for those who would harm them.)
(v29) He proclaimed that the flock was so important to Jesus because HE BOUGHT THEM WITH HIS OWN BLOOD… (Pastors… you better watch what you do with those precious sheep… they have been purchased with the blood of the Lamb!!!)
(v.30) He charged them to BEWARE OF SAVAGE WOLVES WHO DISTORT THE TRUTH AND HARM THE FLOCK… (Do not invite wolves in to devour, rape, and pillage the sheep. Bar them from the premises… give your life for them… drive the wolves out. For instance… if a man is pretending to call out the name of a sheep, but he was just looking at their check and taking note of their name… stop the service, and drive out the charlatan.)
(v.32) He committed them to GOD AND THE WORD OF HIS GRACE… (Grace, grace, and more grace to God’s people.)
(v.33) He charged them: DO NOT COVET SILVER OR GOLD… (Nuff said.)
(v.34) He gave them an example of WORKING A SECULAR JOB TO SUPPLY HIS OWN NEEDS AND SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF THE WEAK… (Wow… what a concept???)
(v.35) He declared that IT IS MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN RECEIVE… (Hmmm… some just receive and receive and receive.)
Hope this was helpful. Peace.
>>I say this because, many members have been told by Staff that they KNOW what’s going on and they DON’T agree with it. Well, if that is the case…why do you continue to hold the “position” of a Pastor, but do NOT fulfill the duties of a true Pastor –as CLEARLY stated above in the article by BlueMarlin48??<<
ReplyDeleteAt what point is it time to step back and say, "Ok. This is the way it is. I have two options:
1. Accept it
2. Leave
I believe we should always look at our own role in the machine. That doesn't mean that those who "accept" are in any way "wrong" or "bad." Again, each of us chugs along at our own pace, in our own time. Unless, of course, there is a threat of major harm -- then RUN.
My question is - I understand all the checklists for a pastor and bishop. No one is going to fulfill them all the time. How do I build healthy boundaries around this? I mean, I know to pencil in the bottom line behaviors that I won't tolerate. Then there are those behaviors that I am not sure HOW I would tolerate.
So if I have a pastor whom I see stumbling - he is approached, he asks forgiveness in reproach and is "repentative" (I just made that word up)
... all we can do is wait to see if his/her words match their actions. If not - it is either leave or go around the merry go round another time.
I am so burned out of hope that I am not sure I am going to find a spiritual home EVER - let alone a pastor. I'm tired. I'm frustrated. I allowed a LOT of things to transpire. I failed myself in a few ways. UGH.
I guess I am confused because I read the article and it sounds like "standards above us." Ok, I suppose that makes sense seeing how he is our sheperd and all. But where is the line between higher standards and unrealistic expectations?
To: “P”
ReplyDeletePart I
I think you ask a GREAT question about defining healthy boundaries in the future:
At what POINT does a person need to step back and say… “It’s time to leave”
First of all –leaving is a process for most. Things aren’t always “black and white” for those who have been indoctrinated members for many years. Especially at a church that is QUITE practiced in the "art of excusing” and “justifying” their actions to appease the people’s questions. (Not to mention --a leader that runs his church like a dictatorship; not allowing any “questions” in the first place.)
So, at the end of the day –NO ONE wants to believe that their beloved Pastor might NOT have their best interest at heart. NO ONE wants to leave a church they have invested so much of their lives into. Again, this truth is usually DISCOVERED over time and as the Holy Spirit reveals it. Don't forget, HE is a big part of the process in helping us to see what we don't currently see.
So, in moving forward and learning to draw Healthy Boundaries in the future. This is what I want to share for now:.
Let’s starts with the facts--
•We should be able to look to our Pastors for guidance and support. Absolutely! That does not mean placing them on a ridiculously high “pedestal”. (That only sets one up for disappointment.) However, Pastors themselves have a RESPONSIBILITY to set the pace –to create a healthy perspective of his particular role within the lives of the church and the people. They do so by remaining HUMBLE. They do so by NOT usurping the role of The Holy Spirit in an individual’s life.
*I have heard it said on more than one occasion @ CC that God is NOT going to reveal something to YOU personally, BEFORE God reveals it to “them” first.
(Hmmm..”Those that are LED by the Spirit of God –they are the Sons of God”.) God speaks directly to ME about His plans in MY life…men can confirm -but they are not a mediator.
•Pastors are people and are NOT perfect. So when they do “fall”, it is only natural for folks to be disappointed. And rightfully so. Just like you would, if a family member made poor choices. Again, a healthy perspective in regards to HOW much you admire/esteem your Pastor ---is KEY going into the situation.
To: “P”
ReplyDeletePart II
With that being said –When do things get to the point of being “bad enough”, that we should actually leave? “Is this an unrealistic expectation I have or is this a matter of an EXPECTED Standard?” Again, great question!
I would say we have “unrealistic expectations”, when we EXPECT to never be disappointed or hurt by someone else. However, the Bible is clear on the STANDARDS that are to be expected both from Leadership and Laity. Requirements for both Sheep and Shepherd in regards to NT church structure.
When those biblical standards are compromised (either way), we should expect both parties to be accountable. We should expect that both parties RESPOND to the situation, with the Fruit of the Spirit. “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”
Knowing that no one is perfect Penny, we must gauge our decisions by asking ourselves the following—
• What does the Word of God say in regards to what I am seeing? (Always compare the two with an objective, Spirit-led heart.)
• Am I simply allowing offense to guide my response? As mature Christians, we shouldn’t be easily offended. However in a Spiritually Abusive Church, sheep are almost ALWAYS dismissed as “offended” in order to explain the mass exodus. When someone fails us, it is initially going to be offensive (of course!) There is a difference between THAT and allowing petty things to keep us in offense. Big difference.
•When the Pastor(s) was presented with the Word –how did he/she respond?
•Did they take ownership for their mistakes? Like you said above –we must look at their actions, we must look at their FRUIT. FRUIT ALWAYS REVEALS THE TRUTH.
•Did they properly address the situation and seek to restore the damage?
If the answer is YES..then have I forgiven them in my heart?
If the answer is NO, then the Bible tells us to treat them as a non-believer or in some cases, to not even "sit at the table with them"...if they refuse to turn from their sin. Because ultmately, that is who they are by NOT following the Word of God. A Christian is only ONE if he abides by the tenets of the New Testament Rulings.
After reviewing the above…we have to take an assessment at what we’ve seen. What is the PATTERN within the leadership? How “bad” does it have to get –before I finally leave?? I think that’s the real question for most.
So, yes..Penny, you are healing. Because you are starting to ask those questions that MUST be answered and settled, so that you MAY move forward in a healthy way. (You are looking into YOURSELF –finding out what initially drew you into Cornerstone and what kept you there.) For some...it was the APPEAL to our PRIDE that drew us, and FEAR that kept us there.
I’m very excited for you friend!!
You are truly sorting through what you need to take with you (from your experience) and what you need to leave behind. Good stuff.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteI would like to begin by introducing myself. My name is Angela Sanchez and my husband is Victor. I was a part of Cornerstone church for a full ten years. To fully embrace the journey of how I found a new church home and pastor then later became a pastor, I must first describe how I came to be at Cornerstone and how I left.
I came to Cornerstone in January of 1997 addicted to alcohol and other chemical substances. I was a victim of domestic violence, abused as a child, and was sexually abused for many years of my life. In short, I was a broken person. While at CS, I quickly learned how to take dominion over my choices and walked into a whole other life. I began serving in ministry within the first year of attending and of course began tithing almost immediately. Within those ten years I was completely entrenched in ministry. I had many years of non-paid voluntary service in the following ministries. I was the Director for the Focus Drug/Alcohol Rehab. Ministry, was in the Prison ministry, Intercessory Prayer ministry, Altar Workers, Hospitality ministry, Marriage Accountability Partners Ministry, Hispanic Outreach council, as well as taught a Synergy class and had also been invited to speak at R’Life as a guest speaker.
When we made the decision to leave, we were criticized about the fact that we were angry about Michael’s second DUI. And you know what, for us……that was definitely the first step in our leaving. My husband and I have a huge family history of not only substance abuse, but co-dependency. So for us to look the other way when our leader received his second DUI would be ridiculous. We felt like God had not delivered us from the bondage of addiction and co-dependency to allow us to become ensnared again. You see, just two years before, my husband’s brother was killed in a car accident while driving under the influence, and if that isn’t bad enough….just three weeks after Michael was pulled over for his second DUI, our cousin, was killed while intoxicated. SO, FOR US……IT WAS ABOUT THE DRINKING!!! If that makes us less spiritual in anyone’s eyes, so be it.
Once we left, the journey of finding another house of worship was confusing, difficult, and heart-wrenching to say the least. I remember visiting another church for the first time and crying the whole time, missing “our family” that we had stepped away from. It was so difficult to get used to the style of other praise and worship, to feel like an outsider again, to have to start at the bottom of the food-chain, to try to trust another ministry.
All those things felt insurmountable, but the one thing I remember is that God kept speaking to my heart, “I am your Father….” I did nothing but cry for two months. I felt like I was dying on the inside. We had lost our whole existence. The one thing that I continued to do, even though my heart was breaking was I continued to read God’s word and pray that God would show me that we had made the right decision. With out any notice, one day, I woke up and somehow I felt like the brunt of the sadness in my heart was lessening. I felt like I was getting clarity about our decision. (I say it was our decision because the criterion for us leaving was not a voice telling us to go, it was God’s Word and His standard on what a godly leader’s life should reflect.) God is clear in His word about the standard of an overseer (pastor, bishop, apostle). Any revelation that man/woman receives, must line up with God’s word, and so should his/her behavior). We had been attending a church that we had intended on just hiding out in, not planning on staying. It became clear after a few months that the lives of the pastoral staff most certainly DID reflect godly living, and that they were servants to their sheep, and that their agenda was not prosperity, but people. They were accessible, relevant, and transparent in their teaching and lifestyles. Even though I saw all of this, it was critical for me to interact with the other leaders in the church and get a good look into their lives as well.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteIt was at this point when we decided to get involved in a small home group. It was the best decision that we ever made. Having a small group of people to do life with, to share and exchange viewpoints with, to celebrate and mourn together, and to genuinely just love one another was exactly what we needed to feel like our soulical needs were being met. I believe that it is necessary to both go to church and have a home-based group of believers for accountability and transparency purposes. Once we started feeling at home in that church though, I was still feeling like it was difficult to put my all in a church, for fear of being hurt again. I really did not know what to do, other than talk directly to one of the pastors. I had made a good connection with one of the pastors on staff and made an appointment to share my reservations with him.
I was completely honest about my experience of being hurt and my lack of trust at this point. He looked me straight in the eye and said words that I had never in my life heard before. He said, “Angie, it is not your job to trust me, it is my job to earn your trust. I don’t care if you ever give a dime to this ministry. As long as you are here, you are a sheep for me to care for, and I will do everything I can to earn your trust and to pastor you…..even if you never serve here, or give a dime.” I couldn’t believe it!!!! I felt like I had been pastored for the first time in my life!!! Like someone actually cared about me and my needs.
So, fast forward three years….I was directed by God a year ago to move out of state to be one of the pastors at a small church. It is our belief that ministry should have a team aspect to it. All of the pastors preach, not just when the lead pastor is out of town. All pastors counsel and mentor people. There is no gate-keeper, anyone has full access to any pastor. We believe that a pastor is to shepherd his/her sheep lovingly and gently. Christ was a servant, therefore as a pastor, I am to be a servant.
Paul said, “Follow me as I follow Christ.” I believe that my life needs to reflect every godly character possible, as to encourage others to be more like Christ, not ME. It is not “our” vision that we follow, it is God’s vision. The vision of our church is “to equip others to love, serve, and follow Christ together.” Isn’t that what Jesus taught us right before he ascended into heaven? “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt. 28:18-20
Great testimony Angela! I remember you and your testimony at church! Praise God for you and your family!
ReplyDelete@ Speaking the Truth: I can honestly say "PRIDE/APPEAL" is not why I stayed...it was because I have such a love for God and felt I was serving Him in His house. When I served in the Ministry it was NEVER about me or my status or even MP...I was called as God called me. I too came from an abusive childhood with alcoholics, incest, and physical beatings...I was drawn to CStone because I was raised in a denomination that made you feel less than and was forced to go while all the abuse was going on. I loved the atmosphere of acceptance, mercy, and gracye at CStone. I liked knowing God could use my Pastor (who was/is imperfect and flawed) because than I knew God could use me too. I learned to forgive my family for the hurt because my Father showed me the way to forgive. I have no room for bitterness or unforgiveness in my heart. So, I found it easy to forgive MP as his faults didn't really sin against anyone. I'm finding it harder than I thought to forgive RP and DT because their sins are against their wives (although we don't know the whole story) but still we are called to forgive once they seek forgiveness...to which the Church (capital C) was never allotted. I pray KP and MT have at least been given that much! Anyway ...in the end...my True Shepherd and True Pastor is Jesus! I follow Him and Him alone. I do not want to forsake the assembling of Saints, but right now...I'm holding onto Jesus and my faith!
I know that all the pastoral qualifications seem weighty and difficult to fulfill. My goodness… What a standard to attempt to live up to? How high did God, through His Word, set the bar? We have Paul’s admonition in Acts 20, I Timothy 3, and Titus. We also have Jesus, Himself, as the example of a “good shepherd” in John 10. Certainly, a reasonable person may question if anyone can live up to the standards, the expectations, being established. And yet… God did establish those expectations. He did, in fact, set the bar that high. Not because He expected perfection. No, He is a merciful God who knows our human frailties. So… perfection is not expected. But humility and maturity are certainly expected. There must be a willingness to live a lifestyle of humility, that is quick to repent of its shortcomings, and a willingness to live a lifestyle of maturity that is submitted to the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteThe problem, as I see it, is that those of us who were at Cornerstone were so “indoctrinated” that the pastor, the bishop, the leaders, are to be given so much grace for their human frailties, that no expectations were ever established. Nothing was expected!!! They could live just as recklessly as the unsaved person off the street, because they were suffering with the same human frailties. “No judgment, I am human! No judgment, I am not perfect!” was the common cry. And all would shout “Amen” Then Michael and Robert would invite guest speakers (at 40 thousand a night) to come in and confirm their message of “No judgment!” They would even say that anyone who questions the frailties of their leaders is being led by the devil, himself. There is only one problem… it is neither biblical nor spiritual. It is fleshly and carnal. Of course there is judgment… and we, in the Body of Christ, are given full permission to judge the fruit of a thing without being judgmental in the process.
I hear so much angst in the conversation of Cornerstonians that other church folks simply do not have. People in other churches look at a thing, and call it what it is… sin! Not only that… other churches remove pastors for such behavior without a second thought. Goodness… even secular business leaders usually have a “morals clause” in their contracts. Even a child knows that some things are not right. My little grandchildren understand that taking money from poor folks to live lavishly is wrong… they know sleeping with another man’s wife is wrong… they know intimidating and bullying are not right… they know that drinking and driving are not right… but the leaders at the Stone cry out… “No judgment, I am human!” And all declare… “Amen!”
To Hmmm:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your positive feedback to Angela.
So have you officially left Cornerstone?
Just to clarify friend. In regards to PRIDE/APPEAL --I wasn’t directing that toward reasons as to WHY people stay. I said that there was some sort of APPEAL as to “why” people are INITIALLY DRAWN to the church. I made no reference to staying due to one desiring a “title” or “position”. (This is EXACTLY what MP and RP have used as an explanation to why some of us left -because we didn’t get a title.) Really??
The point here is simply…to evaluate oneself and examine WHAT drew you in initially to a movement and WHY you stayed. All the reasons may not be bad, again..it’s all about being honest with yourself, as you sort through it.
As far as staying --of course we all wanted to stay because our HEART was to continue to serve within the church. But FEAR is the tactic that Cornerstone uses to keep members in. Telling folks that they are "leaving their covering", is a fear tactic. It is simply not scriptural. Cornerstone is set up like a dictatorship –not scriptural.
Remember, we too were members of Cornerstone. So, I don't think any of us assume that those who do stay do not have their heart in the right place. We certainly know better.
As far as Michael (one example) --he was not truthful in regards to his multiple DUI's –period, end of story. Although it may have not affected you "directly" (as you state) does NOT mean it didn't affect others. How many of the teens in the church live a sober life as a result? Not to mention the adults. Again, Paul writes -"Follow me, as I follow Christ." This is why it is especially IMPORTANT for Pastors to live a moral life...yes, a higher standard since you are in a position of leadership.
In addition, Michael continues to refuse to take responsibility of the other staff member’s (alleged) sin issues. Just a question friend: Is any of the above any less of a "sin" than the ones who (allegedly) commit adultery?
At the end of the day, they are no longer qualified to hold positions of leadership within the church. This is sad to hear, but it is what it is. How can Michael truly fulfill the qualifications of a Bishop...if he doesn't have a good reputation in the community? Not to mention the other qualifications (listed in I Timothy 3) that are no longer being met.
With all that being said, I am glad to hear that you are holding onto Jesus --He is the author and finisher of our Faith. And He will lead you forward..as you TRUST Him!
Angela-thanks for sharing your testimony, I'm looking for a church to attend, the one you described with the kind hearted pastor, is that here in the toledo area? I would like to check it out
ReplyDeleteSo would I.
ReplyDeleteTo Left-now looking for a new church home,
ReplyDeleteYes, the church I was speaking of is in Toledo. However, BEWARE....it is one of the most "dissed" churches from the platform, at least when I was there. It was commonly called "Sugar-creek" or "the church where they serve coffee." I was there for three full years and loved it. I was warned about the watered-down message, but alas, I survived and am so much better for the unadulterated gospel that was preached there. The wonderful loving pastor that I wrote about is none other than the one and only Mike Knisely, whom is the lead pastor at the Whitehouse campus. When we had that conversation, he was the pastor of biblical studies. Although, I have had a chance to meet and talk to every single pastor there and I can say whole-heartedly that they are all as compassionate and loving. Lee Powell met us the first Sunday we attended and he remembered both mine and my husband's first and last names the next week we saw him. Pretty fantastic for a church of 10,000 people, huh? Seriously, I was not expecting anything more than marginal when I went there, but found a treasure!!! Cedar Creek's mission is to reach those that are unchurched and/or spiritually restless and teach them to Love God, serve others, and tell the world about Christ. Can't get any better than that!!!! We still try to sneak a sunday night every once in awhile and go hang out with the creekers!!! Let me tell you one thing they are excited about (and it isn't a man's vision) it's JESUS!!!!! So stinkin' refreshing!!
Good luck to all of you who are brave enough to dare to break off the chain gang. I have never for one minute, no matter how difficult it was to leave, regretted my decision to hold my leaders accountable to the same standard I set for myself. My son who was 16 at the time just looked at us when we told him and said, "About dang time, I was wondering when we were gonna leave..." Outta the mouths of babes :)
Can the blog author possibly get a list of the churches that people who left now attend? It might give some of us still struggling to find a church a place to start.
ReplyDeleteAnd, it is good to see that there are pastors out there in churches that were always dissed by Michael, who truly have a heart for people & not money, power, & titles.
Cornerstone may have a great music dept. & great praise & worship, but that does not a church make. Do they really preach the Word uncompromised & dig deep into the Scriptures weekly? I think not.
One Scripture with self help preaching, motivational platitudes & ethereal revelations of levels & taking dominion does not make a church.
Having a place where you can connect intimately with others in a small group setting with accountability & having a pastor whose heart is for people w/out manipulation, who teaches them to LOVE God, not a higher level of anointing, is what makes a church.
I guess I never heard much about love at Cornerstone when it came to a relationship with God. MP was so intense about levels, levels, & more levels. Work to get to that place you never knew when you arrived at it. Have a spirit of excellence, push to get a place in ministry because then you knew you had arrived in a place of acceptance from MP. But love, I'm not sure that ever existed there in the true sense of the word as Jesus taught. You know the whole love is patient, love is kind...you know the scripture. I can't say that I ever really felt that from MP or RP or JW or JS. It was all well, very business like, not people like.
So, if we could get a list of churches with loving, caring pastors, it would be a wonderful thing and a Godsend in a very dry & weary place.
To Wondering:
ReplyDeleteMany people have e-mailed me and requested a list of churches to visit. I have also received quite a bit of feedback from others who have already found a new place of worship.
I will work on creating a new page tab with local church listings..just for YOU friend. Thanks for the suggestion... =)
See guys, this IS what it's all about. HELPING EACHOTHER....
thanks so much Angela, I've been wanting to visit there, I think I will try it...
ReplyDeleteGreat comments by one and all...very inlightening....very helpful. As of right now I am still there, but have one foot out the door. It is so complicated and confusing when you have so much invested into a ministry and your children are involved, but Angela's message was so encouraging! I think I just need to take that step forward in faith knowing that My God will never leave me and will hold my hand the whole way through. I have some good friends and family who go to Cedar Creek and they LOVE it...I too hate all the other church bashing from the Cstone platform...sad...we are all One in the Spirit, all Brothers & Sisters and it shouldn't matter where God calls us to worship, why degrade another to build yourself up? Where is this love that we are supposed to have one for another? If the congregation has it, why can't our "leader"...well, MP wake up, you may be another family less really soon...not that you will care because it isn't about me and never was~ U R RIGHT ABOUT THAT ONE...IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU EITHER...IT IS ABOUT GOD AND PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS TO THE LOST! Jesus is Lord! God Bless you all!
ReplyDeleteTo Left now looking,
ReplyDeleteMy husband and and I prayed and decided that wherever we chose to visit, that we would go for four consecutive weeks. That would give us an overall picture of the church, just not a snapshop. It would also give us an opportunity to see the overall ministry and not just one pastor preaching. The most important thing we chose to look for was overall safety for the entire family. At the most basic level, we are shepheard to our kids, so a safe environment for them was key. We weren't looking for Revelation or being spiritually fed (initially), as we are mature christians that can feed ourselves, which I believe is the ultimate goal for all christians.
To Left now looking,
My husband and I prayed and decided that wherever we chose to visit, that we would go for four consecutive weeks. That would give us an overall picture of the church, just not a snapshot. It would also give us an opportunity to see the overall ministry and not just one pastor preaching. The most important thing we chose to look for was overall safety for the entire family. At the most basic level, we are shepherd to our kids, so a safe environment for them was key. We weren't looking for Revelation or being spiritually fed (initially), as we are mature Christians that can feed ourselves, which I believe is the ultimate goal for all Christians.
The shepherd provides the place for the sheep to eat, but it is up to the sheep to put its face to the ground and eat the grass. So in essence, the responsibility of the shepherd is to lead the sheep to nutritious grass, not all grass has high protein content. If you take alfalfa or clover, it has 17-21% protein content vs. regular grass which can have as low as 7-10%. As a shepherd, you set the tone for the APPETITE of your flock, and if you want them to eat well, you take them to the place to graze that is good for them.
This is how Jesus knows the difference between sheep and goats. They both will graze....however; goats will eat anything, cloth, garbage, paper. Sheep ONLY graze on grass and plant material. I realized that although I was a sheep, I had started acting like a goat....I am just talking about ME. So I encourage you to examine another diet, one that is filled with all kinds of food, not just those that hold appeal to you. We all know that if we just ate meat, or even just fruit, that it would be considered an unhealthy diet long-term.
Be blessed my friend in your journey and know that you have a friend praying for you. The blog author has my email for anyone that has specific questions. Feel free to email me :)
This is how Jesus knows the difference between sheep and goats. They both will graze....however, goats will eat anything, cloth, garbage, paper. Sheep ONLY graze on grass and plant material. I realized that although I was a sheep, I had started acting like a goat....I am just talking about ME. So I encourage you to examine another diet, one that is filled with all kinds of food, not just those that hold appeal to you. We all know that if we just ate meat, or even just fruit, that it would be considered an unhealthy diet long-term.
Be blessed my friend in your journey and know that you have a friend praying for you. The blog author has my email for anyone that has specific questions. Feel free to email me :)
To Hmmmm,
ReplyDeleteI encourage you to take fear out of the equation, and just go SOMEWHERE TO VISIT!!! So many of us were held in by fear that "there is nothing else out there." But you don't really know that until you find out for yourself. I know that God's word says "For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of Love, power and a sound mind." Rob Satan of his ammunition and tackle your fears, they are never as bad as we make them out to be. If nothing else, you will have won a battle against fear. :)
I am also glad that you are recognizing the unhealthy habit of speaking negatively about another church. I wonder how they really know how these churches they publically criticize operate. Have they went there and sat through a service? I can honestly say that the P & W at Cedar Creek may not be as demonstrative at CS, but it is every bit as worshipful and anointed. It definitely has a different style, but it is top notch musically speaking. I grew to love the simplicity of the worship there and not having to jump to make God aware that you were praising. :-/ Really though, I still try to go back to Toledo every so often for their Community services which are monthly where they just have baptism, P & W and communion. The last one I went to was in October and they baptized 80ish people....this is almost every month!!! Wow...
I think it is pretty clear that I have a very high opinion of Cedar Creek. I learned so much there about healthy leadership and just genuine love for Jesus and each other!!! I still direct new believers and friends there even though I do not attend. As I mentioned before, we moved from Toledo to pastor in another state. Upon leaving, one of the pastors there came to our last small group at our home and prayed for us, blessed us and released us with tears running down his face. It was an incredibly intimate moment for us. It was a difficult move as we certainly loved it there and had no beef with anyone when we left. It was just God's timing. :)
Angela - thank you again - you can feel the Love of God ooze through your words! A great big hug to you! I am going to take you up on your offer and IM you through FB as we are friends on FB. I have been praying for weeks about this move...honestly if it weren't for my kids and how much they are connected with ministry and relationships we would have already left! But you make a good point...I am a parent first and a shepherd to my own children and I need to put them first and protect them from the "wolves"...so change is a comin...THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU...we will be chatting soon!
ReplyDeleteTo Angela:
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for openly sharing your family's journey forward!
It’s great to hear how God came through for your family. It’s also encouraging for others to know that there ARE truly Pastors out there, who have a Shepherd’s heart.
May God continue to bless you and your family!
Personaly, I think it immature to let the mistakes of another person determine where you are supposed to be planted. I'm just sayin.... what about sticking together through adversity??
ReplyDeleteTo Wondering:
ReplyDeleteI prepared the list of churches you requested. You can find it to the right of this article under "PAGES".
Hope this helps!
To "aint no stoppin us":
ReplyDeleteFriend, the steps of a righteous man are ordered by the Lord –not a man. God determines our paths, as HE leads us by HIS Spirit. Not a man.
In regards to “stickin’ it out" at the OK Corral…
Ask yourself this question: Why is it that members who have extended unlimited grace over years of multiple occasions of “adversity”…are not given that SAME GRACE in return, when God leads them to leave? Something is very wrong with that picture.
More and more families are becoming former Cornerstone members. We do have the right to speak to our Pastor/Bishop. Remember that the last shall be first! TELL HIM THAT those of you who are reporting back to him. If you are reading these words, Michael, you need to know that it IS about us! Your congregation is tired of hearing that we don't matter. We are just as anointed as you are!
ReplyDeleteTo… Ain’t no stopping us… who said:
ReplyDelete“personally, I think it immature to let the mistake of another person determine where you are supposed to be planted. I’m just sayin…”
I am sorry that you feel this way. Sincerely, I am… because your statement sounds very spiritual, but it is neither biblical, nor practical. The mistakes, the behavior, the actions of another person are almost always the way God tells us to determine a thing. We are given biblical guidelines on how to maintain virtually every covenant relationship that we enter. Most of those guidelines have to do with the behavior of another.
For instance… in the covenant relationship called marriage… how are the husband and wife supposed to determine whether they should “stick together” as you say? Clearly, it is the behavior of those within the relationship. If one is a serial adulterer; what should the other do??? (Jesus says that divorcing the adulterer is an option.) If one is a physical, or emotional, abuser; what should the other do??? (The Psalmist says that God “delivers me from the violent man.”) We have, both, biblical guidelines and the Holy Spirit to help us make our decisions based upon the fruit, the actions, the behavior of another.
How about the covenant relationship of pastor / parishoner; or… if you prefer… shepherd/sheep??? Once again, God tells us that the behavior of those within the relationship are one of the determining factors for the length of that relationship? What if the shepherd “scatters’ the sheep? Jeremiah says: “Woe unto that pastor.” What if the shepherd fails to “visit” the sheep, what if they do not “seek the young ones,” what if they “eat the flesh” of the sheep,” or “leave the sheep”???? Zechariah says: “Woe to the idol shepherd.” What if the pastor inordinately seeks “silver and gold”? Pauls says they are disqualified. What if they are “given to wine”? Once again, disqualified.
So… Ain’t no stopping… please, know that you are in my prayers, because there are not just mistakes occurring at the Stone, there are lifestyle choices. We, in the Body of Christ, are commissioned, with the Word of God in hand, and the Holy Spirit in our hearts, to make mature, adult decisions. They are not easy, or fun, but they are essential in order to live a healthy spiritual and emotional life.
Our struggles as ex-members of Cornerstone are not with MP. He is but a small piece of many tools God used to get us to our next levels. Because there are so many speaking out, its proof that there is good and evil, truth and lie. (It is each individual’s responsibility to identify and act accordingly)As long as a person finds him or herself on the side of truth there can be NO "BEEF" with a man who obviously struggles with issues.
ReplyDeleteTo those who read it and run back to collect their pastoral pat on the HEAD or BUTT, you all will tire of the games soon enough. Once you realize you are nothing but a number and one day, when you find the machine requires more from you, you’ll either submit or at that point you become one of us.
When your words do not match your actions there is no argument as to who’s wrong or right. It was MP who said "if you've got a history of child abuse, don't even think you're gone be working in the Kid's ministry" But if you are currently (and historically) sleeping with as many women as possible, at the expense of your family and members, it's good for you to lead praise & Worship and even preach.
Simple observations like this ensure that I don't have hold my head down or be confused or have to worry about those who wanna "run and tell that home boy".
At the point I was demonized, I was promoted and I receive it.
I fully recognize my new level and it dose not involve making the old level fit into the new.
Speaking out on these cornerstone issues is such a tiny part of what God is doing in my life, but it is oh so necessary to end this cycle of perversion and moving on.
Most of what I have said on this blog has already been said on FB, and it will remain.
The greatest joy I get in life is knowing I am doing what God wants,
Therefore I am not conflicted or ashamed.
“When you Practice Living the truth, you speak it without thought. When you practice living a lie, There's no end to the thought it takes to keep the Lie alive. Beware of the man who speaks to validate himself, NO MAN will tell you the truth at the expense of his own demise, but he will continue to TALK! My Life is the example my words will never have to say. "BrightSoul" 2010
Amen and well said Aware and Leroy. Thank you for speaking the truth in love to our visitor.
ReplyDeleteFolks, THE Standard IS the infallible Word of God –period. Not my opinion or your opinion –but His Word alone. This is what we use as a basis to righteously judge ALL relationships in our life. Would God expect us to remain unequally yoked with those who are no longer representing His Standards??
As we can clearly see in the above statement “what about stickin’ together in adversity?” This is a CLEAR CUT example of the mentality that is created in a Cult-of-Personality. It’s called old-fashioned……GUILT.
Michael Pitts knows a lot of about “Atmospheres producing Climates” does he not??
The Pastor (I mean personality) creates an atmosphere of UNACCOUNTABILITY. Out of this open door, a climate of LASCIVIOUSNESS is birthed. As members begin to wake up and hit the exit doors –those that remain must continue to soothe their questions away as they sip on the ever common “kool-aide” excuses of “Adversity” and “Attacks”.
One way the Pastor (I mean personality) will sustain this CLIMATE, is by painting himself as a VICTIM...as a means to CONTROL. As one must play the role of a VICTIM –in order to deflect the problem away from himself. (Those familiar with ADDICTION, know all about this common tactic.)
And when members DO finally choose to no longer enable the ungodly, unhealthy, and unscriptural leadership methods –they are then GUILTED by the well-meaning, but misguided members who remain intoxicated on the PERSONALITY residing over the Climate of Confusion. (Of which, we know God is NOT the author of.)
As one local Pastor lovingly spoke to a former member: “You feel “guilty” for leaving, because GUILT is in that house.” That along with FEAR…are very common tactics used to control and sustain a cult.
SHAKE OFF THE GUILT AND FEAR...and BE FREE in the name of Jesus!
If you ever talk to a member of Cornerstone you will find several similarities in the way they talk, one they all speak in generalities, two most of the little "phrases" the mumble over and over are not scriptural but they sound good, three they don't like to be questioned or go too deep into a subject because then their sayings are revealed to be false and shallow, four they are themselves filled with bitterness and anger, five if they perceive (you don't have to actually be doing it, just if they think you are) you are saying anything contradictory to their church or their "bishops" they become exceedingly emotional and angry. Sad.
ReplyDeleteI know that many, maybe all, of the comments are coming from people that are past cc members or confused.Some of us can get so caught up in our own turmoil that we soon forget that this is just what the enemy would have happen so that he can further attempt his sabotaging schemes to cause us to stray or detour us from our purpose and potential. We all need t.l.c. from each other. We are from all walks of life and all nationalities. There have been a lot of times that I have( and at times I still do) have to remind myself that I am the head and not the tail, I'm above and not beneath. Abraham's blessings are mine. I have been so hurt that I literally had to make myself put one foot in front of the other to be able to continue walking. Man will disappoint you, but Jesus never fails. He knows my heart, my failures, my disappointments. He has the answers. Your answer is bigger than your problem. Life has been given to us and we have been given the ability to think for ourselves and carefully weigh out the situation and question ourselves, "Is this my purpose and fulfillment that God has for my life.What can I do to reach my fullest potential. Life is a journey. Do what God has instructed you to do and He will see you through. Redeem your time. Put on your shoes,tighten up your boot straps and get ready to flee the very appearance of evil. You don't have to be insulted with M.P. saying,"play them some marching music" if you don,t agree with him. Your feet were made for walking.Listen to God and quit sticking around for the next "lying prophet". Protect yourself and don,t enable them to continue in building "their kingdom.Do what God says and, Flee the very appearance of evil,or a lying prophet could destroy you. Be free and as one man said in his reference to leaving,"he was getting off that plantation and has freed himself." We all need each other.
ReplyDeleteI'm being bombarded by invitations to IMPACT WOMAN. I wonder when they're going to start cold calling. My best guess is that the women's conference is floundering from a lack of participation. The women HAVE been impacted. And not in a good way.
ReplyDeleteI just dont think it is right that we have to pay to hear the word of God. This is a church in toledo for goodness sake, we are not talking mega ministry...even TD Jakes Woman Thou art loosed is free and that draws hundreds of thousands. I think it is alittle presumptuous to think the broke folks of Toledo are willing to pay 50.00 to go to church. I know a lot of women who never miss it, myself included that will not be attending for the simple fact that it will cost. It is never packed out for the ladies conference, there are usually at least 3 sections that are empty and that is when they are free. I think they will be not pleasently surprised to discover the sanctuary will be even more empty than normal.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have a pastor who is not really a pastor, but a businessman, of course you must pay for the gospel. And the ladies conference is now no different than the HOE conference. They have to charge the money to pay for the big name speakers & all of the fancy decorations & props.
ReplyDeleteSince when did sharing the gospel become about all of that? But I guess when MP makes comments such as his wife and kids wanted to go to the Hillsong conference to the tune of $200 apiece, the Cornerstonians are getting a break because they are charging a whole lot less.
Well, I thought it was a gospel of inclusion, not exclusion. What about those who would like to go, but can't afford it? Oh yea, MP will have a guilt trip statement about that as he always does. He'll tell them about all of the things they can do without or if they have money for that, surely they can spend $50 to go to such a fabulous conference as what they will put on. After all, it will probably be cheaper than taking your family to a movie.
Well, maybe they should save the money to do something with the family rather than continually lining the pockets of Cornerstone Enterprise.
I'm still amazed that people actually paid $100 for "early entrance" passes to the HOE conference. I thought the Bible was clear about not showing favoritism in the house of God as to where the rich & poor should sit. (What about first come , first served, no charge??) Oh, that must be a different Bible than what MP lives by or perhaps a special version of it - the Bible according to MP.
Good grief. I say all who can't afford to attend stay home, or stay home if you can afford it based on the whacked principle of the whole charging for the gospel thing. Take up a freewill offering. Oh, that's right they can't. There is little free will experienced there. It would have to be a coerced con offering with special promises given as to what their seed will bring them.
I admit I did pay the $100 for the conference in 2009 but only because I didnt want to end up in the hallway when he became Bishop, that was important to me. I didnt go this year because I refuse to pay to go to the conference or anything else. I have served there for 14 years and I am not gonna pay to go to church... It really is quite sad that it has come to this. Although I must say, I am not one that is guilted into giving. never have been.
ReplyDeleteI havent gone to the "crew" christmas party either. Not gonna pay to go to a dinner that is supposed to be for those of us who serve and is supposed to be a representation of gratitude for that service. I think they have enough money to spring for some rubber chicken and undercooked veggies. I went to a couple, not really that big of a deal, I appreciate the sentiment but it gets redundant year after year.
Ladies you have to pay for the after party too!
ReplyDelete"Girls Just Wanna Have Fun After Party"
Friday 2/18 @ 9:30pm or immediately following the service.
Kick your heels off and join with girlfriends for a fun closing celebration! This is a ticked event. Tickets may be purchased through Cornerstone Church or online here.
LOL It's a TICKED event all right!
To not a happy camper:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing friend! As I read your comments, I could hear a genuine disappointment and sadness in the direction Cornerstone has taken. Have you officially left or are you still in the valley of decision?
I just wanted to ask you this directly; to be of help to you anyway that I can.
To Been there done that,
ReplyDeleteVery observant comments & very true. What you have pointed out has all of the earmarks of a cult. Cults generally have phrases or lingo or terminology (think levels, anointings, shift aka sh**, etc.) they all use that only those within those cults will understand.
In this case, it is a cult of personality & anyone who tries to point out the obvious to those still drinking the kool-aid, will get a very defensive response about attacking their bishop. And then the good bishop preaches about the attacks and becomes the victim all over again & further entrenches the us vs. them mentality.
Then when sin takes over as a matter of course from the leaders & they get caught in it & people start leaving, we'll call it mistakes & adversity & try to guilt those who have left by saying we are immature for not sticking by them in adversity.
And further, as ain't no stopping us said,"the mistakes of another person shouldn't determine where we are planted" is not even a logical comment to make. Another person's mistakes don't determine where we are planted. Besides that, a mistake is accidental, sin is purposeful & well thought out.
The thinking of "ain't no stopping us" is merely the mentality that comes from a very controlled system led by a very controlling leader who resembles little of a true pastor.
Thank God you have been delivered "Been there done that", oh praise the Lord! All we can do is pray that the eyes of those who remain become enlightened to the system they are in bondage to.
TO ALL:
ReplyDeleteWhat does the Bible say in regards to Persecution?
Matt. 5:10 –
“Blessed [are] they which are PERSECUTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
*Notice this scripture DID NOT say: “Blessed are those who are PERSECUTED…FOR UNRIGHTEOUS ACTS.”
What you are currently seeing is just an "open revealing" of what has already been going on --in the hidden recesses of a man’s heart. (IMO, it takes several years to get a “complete picture” of a particular ministry.) Why? Because the destiny of a "movement" is not primarily in how “safe” their structure is. But it is found in –the hidden recesses of the heart of THE MAN who leads the group. For better or worse, it is the hidden motives of HIS heart that dictate what that movement will become.
You have to ask yourself: “What NATURE is this leader reflecting?” Perhaps what you are seeing is not a matter of "adversity", but of choice.
A TRUE Pastor will always put the NEEDS of the sheep before his own. He will strive to make decisions for the sake of the sheep..Whose care he’s been entrusted with by the Chief Shepherd.
So what IS the value of a sheep? Interesting that both words “Fish” and “Sheep” are the same in both their singular and plural forms. ONE equals ALL…in the Eyes of God.
To speaking the truth in love;
ReplyDeleteI admit I am in the valley of decision. I have never been to any other church but this one in my whole life and the thought of possibly leaving is frightening, especially since as I have read this particular blog, not many of you guys have found another church.
I dont want to end up churchless and sitting home watching online critiquing the one I left 5 years from now (no offense to anyone).
I still love it there and I am very torn...
Not happy camper:
ReplyDeleteSome of us have been gone less than 5 and do not watch online. I am not "rooted" in a new spiritual home as a choice. I am not chasing the Ghost of the Stone.
If you wonder about that, you could check this out - it is free and online.
http://www.jakecolsen.com/contents.html
The only thing I can offer is to "be still." God will guide you and show you where you need to be, whether there, some where else or who knows?
The question I have for anyone who would answer is, how do you get to the place where you actually believe all this stuff is really going on, I mean in reading this blog and the comments on this article and the other one, this stuff is shocking really and very disturbing. When I look at my bishop I just cant fathom that he and the others are capable of hurting people to this extent and with such disinterest in their well being. I just am having a very hard time grasping that this could be possible. Well anyway, thank you all for your comments and willinmgness to assist those of us who are just plain blown away...I mean the ones that are reading this and not telling anyone and just wondering like me if this is really happening to our beloved church and friends and quite frankly, is our bishop really just another money grubbing preacher taking advantage of all of us???? well bishop, is this true? have you done this to us and all these people? are you lying to us? you gonna wipe the dust off your feet and head for the outback? hmm. I think it is way past time to address all of this.
ReplyDeletesorry...went off alittle, but facing the possibility that my world could be crashing down around me and the church I adore be nothing more than a lie is my excuse... :(
To not a happy camper:
ReplyDeletePart I
Of course there are going to be those who want to simply marginalize “LIFE after Cornerstone”. The blog is just a bunch of “disgruntled former members” who sit and watch the services on-line, because they can’t find a new church. Typical diversion tactic –to keep you afraid of leaving. Most people that do comment about the continual skullduggery, is simply because they want to WARN others who are still buying into it. As Leroy said: Speaking out the truth about Cornerstone is not because that’s “all” God is doing in your life right now….but it IS because you care, that you take the time to speak out.
I’m not sure how long you’ve been reading the blog and/or if you have actually read all the comments under each article. However, most families that I know of (that have left Cornerstone) ultimately went on to find a new church. In fact, these VERY people are the ones who suggested the churches that have been listed for you on the “LIST OF CHURCHES TO VISIT” Page on the blog.
With that being said --this is NOT to say that every person that has left..simply found their new church the very next Sunday after leaving. It’s a process for some. Others, that weren’t as affected –they simply picked up their tent and moved on. At the end of the day, you will find that people process things differently. And will be found at different stages in their journey forward. (Sadly enough –there are some whose identity was so wrapped up in Cornerstone instead of Christ, that the truth devastated them to the point of feeling like they cannot trust again.) Then you will find those whose faith and trust wasn't necessarily shipwrecked, but they don't feel getting deeply committed in a new church is what's best for them right now…and perhaps it’s not. Again, you must be led by the Spirit for yourself and God WILL show you the path.
Isaiah 30:21 --“Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "THIS IS THE WAY; walk in it."
TO: Not a Happy Camper:
ReplyDeleteI understand where you're coming from. I was there 7 months ago (I left 6 months ago.) There was always this mentality (sometimes stated, sometimes implied) of "You're never going to find anyplace like Cornerstone" or "The people who have left, they're not doing good" or "so and so left and now she cries every sunday at her new church" etc. etc. etc. I can tell you from experience Not a Happy Camper, that is a flat out LIE.
Although leaving the stone was the hardest decision I've made in years, it was also THE BEST. I've felt so much lighter, my walk with God has been so much more free, it's been amazing. God's grace and love are not tied to a building or a man (except Jesus).. pray, and do what the Holy Spirit directs you to do. Don't let your fear keep you in a situation that you know is wrong. And Yes, I've found a new church I love!... and I've seen a lot of ex-cornerstone folks too, it's been great re-connecting with old friends! (there are more of "us" than you know!)
As for what's going on... you're right. It is literally unbelievable. But it IS happening.
It breaks my heart as I too had been with the church over a decade... I don't think MP set out with this end in mind originally. I think he was once an ON FIRE for God preacher. But things have changed.. very slowly.. but they've changed. Now with UNREPENTANT sin running rampant on the platform he refuses to do anything. The young preacher that once KICKED HIS ENTIRE CONGREGATION OUT OF CHURCH for not worshipping God with their hearts (but instead they were playing games and not focused on God) is now allowing staff members to do far worse, and we are (well... YOU are, I'm gone) expected to pretend like nothing is wrong.
You can see it for yourself. One of the four founding people of the church, KP, has been gone 8 months and not a word has been said (because you have to pretend like everything is fine.) She was an amazing woman of God (excuse me, I'm sure she still is) but she, like everyone else who has left has been vilified and/or ignored.
My heart and prayers are with you.
But as someone who has taken "the plunge" I need to tell you, Come On In! His Water Is Amazing!
To not a happy camper: Part II
ReplyDeleteFriend, I understand where you are. Especially since this has been your only church experience and 14 yrs. at that. But remember – “FEAR NOT”. In all sincerity, staying at a church because you are “afraid” of what MAY or MAY NOT happen..is not faith. Where is your faith? Perhaps you need to think back to when you first found Cornerstone. Did God say this is it –you will stay “here” forever? NO, I’m certain he probably did not. Why? Because our Christian journey is not defined solely by the church we attend. There should be a continual flow to our lives. Friend, Jesus Christ IS our Spiritual Covering –HE LEADS US beside the still waters. So you don’t need to be afraid when… “HE’S GOT YOU COVERED.”
Let me say it this way: IF God is leading you to leave, then you will simply have to TRUST Him. You will have to believe that he already knows how much you love your church and if he IS leading you to leave, then this IS because it’s what’s best for you in the long run. For God knows what lies ahead…does he not?
Albeit, your decision to leave is not going to be any different from the others --in the sense that it took ALL of us to TRUST the Voice of the Holy Spirit on the inside of us. God isn’t going to wave a big banner over your head with flashing lights. He IS however, going to speak to you by His Word and by His Spirit. Let me say it this way: He will CONFIRM it to you, if you ARE suppose to leave. The end of their story (however) will not change just because you decided to “stay and pray”.
With that being said, we are not here to “convince” you of what you should do; that is not any “person’s” job. There are factual things I could post on this blog that would probably make your head spin and your stomach turn inside out. But would you believe it?? The reason we do not allow too many graphic and “ugly details” is because it doesn’t ultimately help anyone to do what is right. Actually, I have found that too many “ugly details” further feed into the Cycle of Codependency. “He loves me, he loves me not.” And I have found that ultimately how a person KNOWS that they did indeed make the right decision (after leaving) is because of the FACT that it wasn’t based just upon the words of others. You can be confident in your decision, when you KNOW that you KNOW --God confirmed it to you through a process. And one that was unique to you as an individual.
Again, we are here for you. There is no judgment here. I remember the process it took for me to leave...it was not the easiest decision. However, when I got on the other side of that decision and saw the new land that was ALREADY waiting for ME: I realized it was one of the most freeing decisions I had ever made! There are absolutely NO regrets, perhaps other than making the move quicker.
To not a happy camper: Part III
ReplyDeleteHere is the truth of the matter:
Finding a “church” isn’t the problem. It’s leaving the familiar to embrace the unfamiliar –that is the problem. However, I have a feeling that you might also be thinking that you’ll have to leave everything behind --when you do leave. NOT SO! Isaac was not sacrifised..and neither will the promises God spoke over your life be sacrificed either! The advice I gave a certain individual a couple of years ago was this: “Perhaps all the things you have been believing God for, awaits you on the other side of your obedience.” Guess what?…those words came to be prophetic as they unveiled over his life this past year. Was it hard for him? SURE! When I followed up with…not only did he find a new church, but a new job, new relationships, and healing in his body! Praise God! Obedience is better than sacrifice. It may cost you at times, but it will be worth it..I promise.
Well there is much more I could say and I thank you for your patience in reading this. I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix this for you, make it easier if I could. However, this is YOUR decision and yours alone.
In all that I’ve share with you above, my final advice is simply this: Go where there is PEACE. Peace is not understanding…PEACE SURPASSES your understanding. Go in the direction of Peace. Everything else will make sense in time.
God Bless!
"Why sit we here (i.e., CS) till we die?"
ReplyDeleteRight AB!! this is my testimony, We've flown free from their fangs (of ten years), free of their traps, free as a bird. Their grip is broken; we're free as a bird in flight (Psalm 124:7)!!! and it only gets better. CHOOSE you this day whom you will put your trust in!!! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIE.
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter level, I bet they heard the word pray and they mistakenly took it for PREY. Evidently they are confused because now they view themselves as a the victim and we are the villain. Is this a sign of them believing their own lies and being damned or when is one's mind turned into a reprobate or can they not realize or don't really care how much they are hindering the plan God has?They will never allow anyone to go to a "higher level"They will keep themselves as the untouchables, and for some of the people that are thriving to sit on the front row, or even more of a higher level of getting through those doors of the office just off the side of the platform --FAT CHANCE_. Consider yourself as being blessed if you don't ever have those doors opened for you, because their walls are coming down because they have allowed themselves to be degraded to a lower level.NEWS FLASH! To M.P.:Your Sheep Are Not As Dumb as you think they are. I think think they are at a higher level of pasture and moved on. The grass is greener on the other side and those sheep know the difference between bitter and better. CC is not the "only" pasture and there are other true shepherds in other places that are anointed . Never Fear! There is a heaven. There is a hell.GOD is still on the throne and in control.
ReplyDeleteI hear all of you and thank you so much for allowing me to voice my heart here. I hear genuine concern and care and I am very appreciative.
ReplyDeleteDear Not A Happy Camper,
ReplyDeleteAs my husband and I were planning to leave, one of the things God spoke to us was this: "Just because it's the end of a season does not mean it's the end of your destiny." I believe, for many, it can be the beginning of a destiny. We were just talking today about how some of the people who left CS are being released/launched into God's purpose. I agree with what Speaking Truth in Love said - “Perhaps all the things you have been believing God for, awaits you on the other side of your obedience.” We're finding it to be true in our lives and we've only been gone 5 months. Ask God to speak the truth boldly to you (that's what I did). Listen to your heart, pay attention to your feelings..anything unsettled, feeling "off"? Examine it. And remember, GOD has your back..GOD is your covering...and GOD will guide you to truth. It's a difficult truth, very painful. But you'll be okay. I'm praying for you now.
Blessings.
To Not A Happy Camper,
ReplyDeleteNo problem, that's what we are here for as we are all brothers & sisters in Chriat. You need a place to voice your heart as all of us did & that is why we are so grateful that the author started this blog. Before the blog, we were like ships lost at sea trying to make our way through the storm without a guide.
This blog has helped us all find our way through our confusion & pain & even more, it is a support, a place we can go & share our hurt, anger, pain & disbelief & know that others truly understand.
When I first contemplated leaving, I didn't want to believe some of the things I was hearing, but my own eyes & my spirit knew that there was something very amiss at the Stone. Too many people leaving, too many things left unexplained or explained very poorly. And then when I left, I went through a shock of sorts as I began reading about spiritual abuse & dominion authority theology. I said to myself, I was in a cult. Then, I cried a lot & soon I found others through some other blogs whose comments finally made sense to me & it confirmed what I was thinking & feeling & I wasn't crazy or off. There were too many people with similar stories & feelings for it to be a coincidence or people out to get Michael.
Rather, it was former members trying to make sense of the matrix they were caught in & until you are out from under it, you don't fully see what it did to your thinking & emotions. That is a scary place to be. That is why talking & sharing & questioning is so necessary. And when I finally sat down with Rich Maus & could ask him questions & listen to him share his story, I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that I had made the right decision & was not crazy as my own thoughts so often told me I was. Things were just too unbelievable in my isolation, but when I connected with other former members, it was so freeing.
And ask yourself, how many people who leave other churches have to go through the mental, spiritual & emotional anguish we go through? None that I know of & I have had friends & family members recently leave other churches & their pastors wished them well & prayed for them & sent them on their way with blessing. No drama, no accusation, no mean spirited comments from the pulpit, no sarcasm about there's the door, see if you can find someplace better - a fear tactic meant to keep you in bondage.
It does take time to readjsut when you leave, but it's ok. It causes you to draw unto Jesus & the Word in a way that rekindles a first love within in you. The eyes of your understanding come open to real truth. That is what is needed for awhile as opposed to running off to a new church right away. It takes time to figure out what you were bound to and bamboozled by.
But, hope awaits & a new day dawns again. I went to a wonderful church today with another former Cornerstonian & we truly felt the presence of the Holy Spirit during praise & worship in a very sincere & genuine atmosphere. Very simplsitic & there were words of knowledge going forth & prayers for healing as well. It was not in an atmosphere of hype like at CStone, but no less powerful.
So, be encouraged as you listen for the Holy Spirit's leading & fear not. God will not leave you or forsake you. He sees your every need & your steps are ordered by Him & He will walk you through just as He has the rest of us. It's jsut that we are all in different places of healing right now.
Read the posts under lists of churches to the right. Those are stories of hope in a dry & weary land.
And remember, we are here for you.
Take care and may God give you peace & wisdom as you seek His will.
King David said
ReplyDeleteGreat article Blue Marlin 48!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article needs to be a benchmark for all Christian who do not want to be HOODWICKED by a fall from the calling of God Pastor again!!!!!
There are many pastors in the Body of Christ who match the description in the article. WE just have to get over the AMERICAN ENTERTAMENT CHUCHISM. These pastors may not be in a known church on cable TV and never preached around the world. There church membership might only be 20 people, but they have the love of GOD in their heart for the people. These Pastors are currently in TOLEDO, OH if you will give them a chance.
Think about it
facebook post, liked by many C-stone members including Sis K, must be the new mantra.
ReplyDelete"I am an asset owner. I am a land possessor. I am a wise investor."
This is only slightly more palatable than Dr. Mark Chironna's mantra
"I am a rainmaker."
I am the walrus, goo, goo, g'joob.
Does that surprise anyone? It's the same old same old song and dance to get all of the kool-aide drinkers excited. It all sounds wonderful but what does it have to do with spreading the gospel & getting souls saved & taking care of your brother?
ReplyDeleteAnd sure MP & Sis K are asset owners,land possessors & wise investors. They've had all of our tithes & offerings for some 25 years to buy expensive houses, build a house in Australia, drive top of the line cars, wear top of the line clothes etc., etc.
Have they invested in the souls of their sheep - no. Do they help those in financial need in their congregation who have fallen on hard times - no. Do they care about the sheep who have been scattered by their deceptive, sinful behavior - no.
And who cares that he is a rainmaker - big deal.
Did Jesus make such statements? I think not.
As Who Me said, " I am the walrus, goo goo, gjoob...
Deceived people can claim anything they want because in their minds its all reality & truth no matter what the evidence & facts show to the contrary.
I pray that the good people with any sense who are wavering about leaving, take the plunge out of there soon as the clock is ticking ever louder, TIC TOC, TIC TOC. The gig is up, prepare for a large exodus of folks leaving the kool-aide camp.
Sounds like some new age transcendental mantra and seems like Chirona has been smoking too much of something.
ReplyDeleteHave they read anything about pastoring 101?
Are they now power of positive thinking & confession works magic preachers??
How about go & tell others about the power of Jesus to save a lost & dying world through his precious shed blood on the cross at Calvary & we will suffer things for His sake that sometimes won't be easy or pretty or always have promises of land, houses, assets etc.
What happened to that gospel?? Oh, that doesn't get the sheep excited or bring in the big bucks or cause the sheep to flock in numbers.
Tis the day of a new gospel @ the Stone to tickle the itching ears of sheep who follow a personality as opposed to merely following Jesus & the simplicity of His words & teachings.
I Don't know if you all realize that right here and right now God is making it clear that there is a church within the CHURCH. By Identifying those who have their own agenda and also Identifying those who love HIM, and he's making the two sides known to each other, but yet it is not a battle of the two.
ReplyDeleteOne of the beautiful things about God is, He is NOT conflicted, I.E torn between two opinions. He has said thou shalt not, he has given us the principles to live by and the way is clearly paved.
So take a deep breath..............................
AHHHH! (that came from God). Just as sure as he is God, The plan the purpose and destiny he has for you will be achieved, ONLY if he is God in your life.
So remove the middle man, put that fleece out there and watch for results which will blow your mind and bless your soul. We are not in a fight, we simply are being presented the opportunity to obey God.
Rest and be easy, God will prove his word, the only concern we should have is LORD DID I GO TOO FAR with my obedience to you. Loving God is the fuel of my soul and pleasing him is ALL that matters to me.
Selah
Right here and right now God is also making it clear that there is an unclean spirit in the house of Cornerstone.
ReplyDeleteWe need to pray for the deliverance of Michael Pitts from unclean spirits right here and right now.
We pray for the deliverance of Robert Pitts from unclean spirits right here and right now.
We pray for the deliverance of Derick Thomas from unclean spirits right here and right now.
We pray for the entire congregation of Cornerstone Church to be enlightened by the Holy Spirit and to rebuke the unclean spirit working in their midst.
We call upon the power of God through the Holy Spirit in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Amen.
To Anonymous 2:48 PM,
ReplyDeletePart 1
Yes, I agree about the unclean spirit, that is why I left & that is why so many members's lives both present & former have been affected by that spirit. It has caused individuals to be influenced by its grip & commit sins they would otherwise never have committed. That's because certain sin & behavior is not called out for what it is & dealt with. It becomes: "God isn't mad at you or keeping score. If your salvation is that fragile, we're all in trouble."
Once that gets preached from the head & supposed shepherd, it creates an open door for sin to creep in. AFter all, God isn't keeping track & we all make "mistakes" & nobody is perfect.
All true, but when no effort is made to live a life that is pleasing to God, but rather pleasing to man (MP, RP) to get to that next fleshly level & pursue that next position, title, that ability to rub elbows with ministry because you have somehow arrived, it is a very dangerous place to be spiritually.
I know, I saw it happening in my own life & questioned why? Why didn't my pastors notice certain behaviors & address them among the congregation. There were many individuals who I saw & knew living in compromising ways which leads to open doors for the enemy to walk into.
It is no different with MP, RP, & Derek & maybe even more so since they are in leadership positions. Wouldn't the enemy love to destroy what God has placed in & upon their lives?
Yet, when sin is continually overlooked & denial & excuse making sets in, woe be it unto them who cannot lay aside their pride & acknowledge the sin in the house & their lives & repent & turn from their wicked ways.
Yes, God is merciful & gracious & gives us ample opportunity to get it right, but when we are stubborn & refuse, the enemy is given free reign, I don't care who you are or what title you hold. God is God, the devil is the devil & the nature of each will manifest according to the condition of our hearts & what we yield ourselves to.
To Anonymous 2:48 PM,
ReplyDeletePart 2
Michael has been given ample opportunity to make things right with individuals, but he has not. He has refused to listen or to acknowledge when he has been wrong & has not openly repented, but made excuses, lied, or made light of the situations he has created for himself. The same goes for Robert & somewhere along the line, Derek got sucked into the matrix of the unclean spirit & many lives have been deeply hurt by their actions.
I can't repeat Michael's own words enough... "What is on the head flows down." It affects everyone under his ministry - everyone, one way or another. And for those of us who have had the courage to leave, it is no different. Only for us, we have become as outcasts to him, not as the wounded & hurting sheep of his once green pasture now gone brown & withered creating a malnourished, unbalanced & sickly diet for the sheep that yet remain.
So Anonymous 2:48, yes we can pray, but prayer is not magic and does not override repentance & making amends to others when both are called for. There are so many members who have left who are working through detoxing their minds & spirits from the effects of Michael's ministry & who cry out daily to God for healing & answers. We will never get over it, but with God's help & the comfort of His Spirit, we will get through it.
The outcome is now in Michael's hands. He can come clean & seek deliverance, forgiveness & reach out in a true effort to heal & make things right, or he will continue on, business as usual, cloaking his sin in "good works" & digging wells, being an asset owner, land possessor & wise investor, or he will simply & eventually, just get out of Dodge & look for someone else to step into the matrix & continue on in the deception & sin.
Remember, God looks on the heart of a man, not his outward works which can be deceptive. AS Matt. 23:27 says, Woe to you Scribes & Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all UNCLEANNESS.
No man or ministry is so great that it can't succumb to sin & uncleanness. Just look at the headlines in the paper - it happens. And sadly, all that MP preaches about them out there being religious & judgemental really applies to his own life. It's just been all twisted around for so long & covered up so deceptively, but the truth has finally been revealed & all who have ears to hear should listen.
So, yes we can pray, but MP. RP, & Derek must come out of denial, step into reality, recevie deliverance, seek forgiveness & make amends. That is simply christianity as is should be, not all of this silly hype about levels, titles, shift, anointings etc. None of that bypasses what God requires of us when we live outside of His commands for our lives.
Time will tell what they do & how many more faithful members they will lose.
Wow Walkin' It Out,
ReplyDeleteYou have cleary & plainly spelled things out for me. It makes sense to me. I'll pray, but you are right, it doesn't keep us from doing what we ultimately need to do when we sin & fall short.
Sin is not a mistake like somebody said. Most if not all sin is deliberate & begins with our thoughts. And eventually our thoughts give way to our actions good or bad.
At any rate, let's all pray for each other. We all have much need of prayer as we make our way through all of this, both those who have left & those contemplating leaving. May God be the anchor of our souls in these rough & stormy seas.
For those looking for a church, be sure to check out Vineyard in Perrysburg.
ReplyDeleteSpirit-filled & down to earth. Good praise & worship, very caring & available pastors.
Check out the link to the right for List of Churches to visit.
If you are looking for "real" & following Jesus & the Word, they have it. If you are looking for a show & glitz & glam & high energy preaching, it won't be for you. But if you want caring relationships and a place to serve, then you will find it refreshing.
Hope that helps those who are searching.
I have a question, is it realistic to expect a pastor/bishop whoever to be available to everyone in a large church? For as many years as I have been at cornerstone, everytime I have ever seen MP walking around and approached him to talk he has always talked to me and has often approached me.He has talked to me outside when I was in a conversation with someone else. When he doesnt I dont get offended or whatever because I understand I am not the only one in the room..., there are a lot of people there and for him to counsel, encourage and deal with everyone, wouldnt that be a little much to ask of any one person, I mean I couldnt do it.
ReplyDeleteI ask this becasue I have heard a lot of that in these comments that he doesnt make himeslf available and I have heard others say they would never go to a large church becasue they want the pastor to know them and be able to just be friends with them...Is that their (the pastors) job to do that? just trying to make sense of things....
obviously no one has the time or energy to talk to or counsel multiple thousands; God gave us the example of how that must be done on a large scale.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said,MP is NOT the person you want to talk you. Because if you are honest and state you concerns about whats going on in the church, like I did, you then are targeted as a problematic member.
It had been a complaint of mine for years that when leadership spoke to you they would give you the response they wanted. i.e "is every thing good?" "How are you...good?" "Is everything all right with you?" rather than asking how are you.......?
So when someone says MP is not approachable they are saying it's not easy to be open or direct with him or others in leadership.
Friend or Foe, you are identified as such, not according to the questions which you ask,but by what you do with the answer. If your encounter is not wanted by MP he will cut you from the pulpit.
It's impossible to befriend thousands of people in the true sense of the word, but is is possible to be validated as being sincere, caring and honest.
There are too many principles of God violated at this place and that is one of the bricks which has been removed from the foundation. "OM Jess sayin"
I see what you are saying. It has never occurred to me to ask him about things that are going on. Why, I dont know. I guess I always assumed that he knew and was handling things privately and in the way he saw fit to handle them. I do however have a problem with the whole RP and DT stuff. That bothers me a lot. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for both of them and I am not sure what the answer is there. Honestly, I dont even know what really happened. Since it has never been addressed publically, all I or any of us for that matter really know is what the rumor mill is saying...It would be nice to know the truth. Very nice indeed. Thanks Leroy. It is good to know you are doing well. I did notice you were no longer in the choir blessing us with your beautiful music and like many others that just seemed to disappear, it is good to know what happened. Albeit hard to hear this stuff, it is vital to those of us who are just finding all this out. We need to know so we dont sit in a fog anymore and can make an informed decision.
ReplyDeleteToo bad it hasnt come from leadership though, that would make all the difference.
To not a happy camper:
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that you may be trying to sift through all the comments to decide for yourself if the reasons people left are indeed “valid”, thus making you feel confident (one way or another) about your decision. Will any “reason” someone gives you be good enough?
When someone ultimately wants to stay in an abusive relationship, they will find a way to discredit the 110 reasons given to them by former partners. They will also DEFEND and EXCUSE their abuser until the end, to JUSTIFY why they stay in such a dysfunctional relationship.
Friend, you need only to rely upon the Voice of the Holy Spirit. What is HE saying to you at this time? What is HE showing you at this time? And what are you doing with what He is showing you?
With all due respect, one of the reasons many members struggle with making “that decision” is due to the “consult your covering” indoctrination that has been coming from Michael and Robert for 2 decades now. Cut out the CONFUSION and you will hear clearly.
Much of what you are reading is what former members realize AFTER leaving. No one left because “Michael didn’t befriend them”. This is ridiculous.
**Members also DO NOT LEAVE because they are “hurt, misaligned, or misled”. My advice to you is to STOP listening to the DAMAGE CONTROL and DO Consult your Covering –that however would not be MAN, but THE LORD JESUS CHRIST Himself –his Spirit (the answer) dwells within you.
Please dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to sift through to decide if any of this is valid. I am however trying to wrap my brain around what I have been reading since what I have been reading from mostly anonomous people with the exception of a few brave souls who have identified themselves, all of which I did not know personally, is not what I have experienced.
ReplyDeleteLeaving a church is a huge decision and to do it based on comments of invisible people is I dont think wise.
With that being said, . I am not discounting the experiences of people but please understand the position I am in at this point. Up until a couple weeks ago, I was at a church I loved, serving the God I adore with people I thought had the same heart as mine. Then I find this site and I see all the pain and hurt from people I dont know (or maybe do) and the pain has been caused by the leadership of the house all the while understanding there are 2 sides to every story.
I am not saying no one was hurt or lied to or misled, what I am saying is I am taking an honest look at what I have known and loved and believed and trusted in and judging myself and where I am spiritually, but being an analytical person, I tend to pick everything to shreds in order to do that...
You all know very well that when you learned of things that upset your applecart, you didnt just say well I am outta here and run out the door that minute..it took you some time to digest it all. So please give me that ok...
I do appreciate all of the comments here, it has helped me look honestly at my church, my leadership and myself but since I have not witnessed anything like what you all are talking about, well other than the RP and DT stuff that I still dont even know what really happened, I am taking what you say at face value. Without investigation of my own and questions I would be a fool. I dont want to be any more of a fool than I already have been. I am in pain people and I am angry and disappointed so I may come across different than what I am actually trying to say...grace, thats all I need right now.
To not a happy camper:
ReplyDeleteFriend, we are extending grace to you!! Absolutely..we understand, it is a difficult decision to make when you have invested so much of your life into it.
However, to be quite frank with you...the majority that left years ago did NOT see half of what is currently being openly revealed to the entire body. Many left simply because they sensed something was not right and they took the Holy Spirit at His Word.
You’ll do the right thing… just keep walking it out. God will confirm –TRUST that. Remember, go in the direction of Peace.
God Bless :)
I also want to add this--
ReplyDeletePicture a chess set. Who will win?? Whoever has POWER to rule the Board --wins the game right?.
It appears as though some think “Bishop” is the center of attention here. He is not. JEZEBEL is. He becomes a controlled pawn in her hand. Who do you think has the power to control the “board”???
How do I know?--
Jezebel gains control through manipulation, intimidation, emotional pressure, bewitching spirits, and seduction. So –can one fully remain in control of their position, when they have abdicated their power to another?
When the true Power of the Holy Spirit is no longer governing a house…SOME OTHER “POWER” must REPLACE IT..to continue the “show”. Hence the control, manipulation, and “special effects” to keep an appearance.
If you break the demonic chains of Jezebel –HER CONTROL, HER FEAR, HER HAUGHTINESS, and HER SEDUCTION….you my friend will finally realize that (just like a circus elephant) there really is NO power holding you –just the illusion of power through “power play” tactics. For she is the ultimate destiny thief...
When you break those "chains" off of your mind –you will then be able to see your way OUT of the MAZE.
*The secret to defeating Jezebel is not to just “cut off her funding”, but to set our hearts toward humility and repentance. (Both of which Jezebel hates.) If we allow The FIRE (Spirit) OF GOD….to burn out our imperfections, Jezebel will have no room in the church to gain entrance. And men and women of God will be FREE to fulfill their destinies.
"Whose" destiny is most CONTROLLED and "Whose" destiny is most EMPHASIZED in your church? That is the “Jezebelic Test”.
I hear you.. very well put.. a lot to think about....thank you.. you are right...
ReplyDeleteI have a theological question concerning the Jezebel Spirit:
ReplyDeleteIn my studies of her (Not only in terms of the church spirit, but in terms of the character herself) I believe I found the *reason*? for her power - and why she is so hard to recognize... or not. Let me run this by you --
This is a woman from Phonecia who was a princess and lived well. According to readings,(many which were purchased from the Stones very own bookstore! (I loved that place!) her family was wiped out and she was forced into marriage with Ahab. We all know what a catch he was. Truly, humanize this woman for 5 minutes – it is no wonder she lost her mind.
The thing about Jezebel was that she WAS royalty. She was also the High Priestess of Baal. Instead of the Priest and King of Christ – we have the Priestess Queen of Jezebel.
There are some pretty hairy OT stories. All the death, destruction, conniving of Jezebel – well heck – She believed that she was doing it for the good of the “Kingdom.”
IMAGINE THE POWER OF HER ACTIONS IN HER BELIEF THAT SHE WAS TRULY DOING THE WORK OF HER GOD.
Yes, she lied – God also sent a lying Spirit for the sake of false prophecies. There is horrific death on both sides. The cost of this was exceptionally HIGH. And there she is – up against the Prophet of God… the Priestess of Baal who runs the kingdom; both believing with everything they ARE that their heart is TRUE.
Personally, I do NOT believe she was “haughty” or “Egoistic” per se… she was raised as a Queen and was THE Priestess. She presented herself as such. I believe she was ignorant of God - but her ignorance is what made her so deathly powerful and to be taken seriously. Of course she had a following. Of curse she had Prophets. Of course.
In the end, when the Lord our God prevails (as always) she put coal on her eyes not to seduce her way out of a nasty situation, she was a Queen – she was going OUT as a Queen. Even to the END – she WAS “Jezebel.”
I say that to say that we do NOT know the heart of any man. Half the time, we know not our own – it’s the man with a sincere cause/mission planted in his heart, blinded to all else – who can be powerful and the most dangerous and leave a wake of destruction.
Behold Jezebel:
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs30/f/2008/150/b/b/Bride_II_by_OhioArt2.jpg
Penny--
ReplyDeleteThank you for adding insight on your take of Jezebel. Indeed she was consumed with her mission to destroy the Prophets of the true High God. I believe her name means "I am with Baal" or "Baal is exalted".
So yes, the key to Jezebel’s character is that she behaved like a Phoenician princess, NOT like an Israelite woman. I King 16:30-33 "Now Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the LORD, more than all who were before him. And it came to pass, as though it had been a trivial thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took as wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Sidonians; and he went and served Baal and worshiped him. Then he set up an altar for Baal in the temple of Baal, which he had built in Samaria. And Ahab made a wooden image. Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than ALL the kings of Israel who were before him."
Do not think for one minute that Jezebel did not know EXACTLY what she was doing when she entered into marriage with Ahab. (For if you are an enemy of Israel, you are indeed an enemy of God.)
On another note, it is interesting that you just brought up the HEART...this is the newest article.
Luke 6:45 --"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: FOR OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART HIS MOUTH SPEAKETH."
Did she enter into marriage or was she taken? From the research I have done - it was a standard take-over - and she was given in a political act.
ReplyDeleteFor me - this would be reason to add bitterness to the mix. What I am saying, I guess - is that I see a VERY human woman operating in a VERY anti God manner - but to her, it was what it was... survival and upholding Baal. In some Hebrew readings the meaning of Jezebel - Pure.
A person is far more dangerous with a cause that they believe is just.
I don’t know if we could say the Bible necessarily portrayed it a “takeover marriage” –but certainly politics and resources played a huge part into it; as was common in those days.
ReplyDeleteHowever, an entire exegesis of the story of Jezebel and Ahab would be quite lengthy to say the least. Many factors play into this story and the historical background of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms at that time in history. It is interesting to add however, that her Phoenician name was Abizebel “My Father [Baal] is Noble”
The reason I brought up Jezebel, was for the focus to be on --Breaking FREE from her spirit:
(taken from previous comment)…
For she is the ultimate destiny thief...
When you break those "chains" off of your mind –you will then be able to see your way OUT of the MAZE.
*The secret to defeating Jezebel is not to just “cut off her funding”, but to set our hearts toward humility and repentance. (Both of which Jezebel hates.) If we allow The FIRE (Spirit) OF GOD….to burn out our imperfections, Jezebel will have no room in the church to gain entrance. And men and women of God will be FREE to fulfill their destinies.
To "not a happy camper":
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your feedback..we are praying for you!
***Just wanted to let you know that one of our visitors "Aware" wanted to respond to you in regards to your question above (Pastors w/ large churches).
I created a page (just for you) so that you could read his response to you. It's to the right of the page under "Visitor Q&A"
Aware, Thank you for answering my question in such a beautiful way. I am speechless with one exception, WOW have we been screwed!
ReplyDeleteI can see where in the beginning MP was very diligent in providing the care for his flock, but then he got too big for his britches and the world saw what we saw and then the race to the top was on and now he is barely there, the other pastors are not the least bit interested in our well being and we have been left to flounder. It is all very dispicable and pathetic. My heart is just in pieces on the floor right now in really grasping what Jesus designed for all of us and what we have been cheated out of.
I hope MP is very happy in Austrailia. I think he needs to go and let us dust the crap off of our feet and move on. I think Toledo has seen enough of this person, I know I have.
To Not a happy camper...
ReplyDeleteYou are quite welcome. I am continuing to pray for you, and all those who are struggling with your fresh wounds. Please know... it really does get better, but it is a process. Never let go of the hand of the Chief Shepherd. He will walk you through this valley.
Be blessed.