submitted by dmac64 /blog visitor
Spiritual Distinctions between a Reject and a Righteous Man:
Spiritual Distinctions between a Reject and a Righteous Man:
It is with a humble, even saddened, heart I present the following candid distinction between ONE whom God Almighty has rejected (even in His Love) -and ONE whom the same Loving God has accepted (in His Be-loved). The record of Spirit-inspired Scripture is again our only true Guide, and I trust the same Spirit of Truth to lead us both into and guide us through these sharply contrasted spiritual realities. Let's begin.
From opposing sides of the behavioral spectrum…
Here are some potent distinctions:
One man is Darkness, while one man is Righteous.
One man is evil-tempered (his proven and displayed temper, that is); one man is God-hearted (although painfully imperfect).
One man is the choice of the crowd; one man is the selection of God Himself.
One man is under no persuasion to do the right thing; one man is under no persuasion to hide his confessed (and gruesome) sins.
One man cannot win in the eyes of Almighty; one man cares not if he loses in the sight of all men.
One man becomes a Reject; one man maintains God’s Righteousness within.
One man is Adam; one Man is “the last Adam”.
One man is crucified with Christ; one man is now alive unto God.
One man cannot save his life before men; one man cannot but lose his before God.
One man is the Reject… One man is the Righteous.
And, drawing from historical example and the extent of our own common humanity, you or I could easily be “anointed by God” yet -end up AS EITHER MAN.
Got your attention yet? Sound all-too-familiar? Did you find yourself thinking of
names and faces in reading the contrasted attributes above? I find myself praying for Jesus, the Righteous Man, to become “my main Man”, if you will. And I (again, sadly) grieve over any man who is now a Reject, but could have been so much more. Yet at the same time I rejoice in spirit, because of the Truth of God’s perfect Righteousness we all may partake of -nay, actually HAVE BECOME in Christ Jesus!
names and faces in reading the contrasted attributes above? I find myself praying for Jesus, the Righteous Man, to become “my main Man”, if you will. And I (again, sadly) grieve over any man who is now a Reject, but could have been so much more. Yet at the same time I rejoice in spirit, because of the Truth of God’s perfect Righteousness we all may partake of -nay, actually HAVE BECOME in Christ Jesus!
You and I are different in so very many ways, yet the authors of God-Breathed letters long ago, found no trouble in collectively grouping mankind together with such riveting phrases like, “There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE”. Or, “ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.” Still again, “In Adam, ALL MEN DIED.”
Sounds a bit depressing, huh? And it is depressing, if you only focus on what God has ultimately rejected. But “Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!” In the end of your story, the Bible’s story, and even His-story, the Reject and the Righteous Man are never to meet again! One has been impaled to a cross… one has been made alive unto God. It all depends
to which man/Man you choose to yield your self (your “members”).
Look with me into the record of King Saul, perhaps the most famous of the “reject” category. We can contrast his sad tale and demise with that of King David, an early example of a “righteous” man.
First, their similarities:
BOTH were anointed with oil, to be king. BOTH felt the moving and working of the Holy Spirit upon their lives. Both were brave warriors. Both attracted others to their cause and quests. Both had “received words” from Samuel, the prophet. Both committed sins before God and the people they were chosen to lead. Both bore “sons”, who had drastically alternative futures. Both had encounters with God’s mouthpieces of their day. Both wore crowns. Both were given an opportunity… the SAME opportunity... to be either the Reject or the Righteous Man we speak of…. Both men.
However, both responded in completely different ways to the Voice of God’s Truth, spoken in their hearing. Both could have been Righteous. But one man we now know as the Reject, while the other is declared by God Himself to be “a man after Mine own heart.”
-----------------------------------------
So, Darrin, what’s the BIG DIFFERENCE then, between these two men? In a nutshell, allow me to present a few, albeit major contrasts that I believe “caused” them to be known by such opposite titles after their earth-lives had passed into eternity:
Firstly, Saul (the man we now see as being the Reject) quite apparently had not sought after, pursued and tasted his own personal, unique, intimate, ONGOING relationship with Almighty God. By comparison, we know David, the Right-hearted man, spent his early (youthful) years, his middle (ministry) years, his later (tearful) years… and all years in between actually “tasting and seeing” that the “Lord is good, and His mercies endure forever”. Think for a minute with me… we have hundreds of David’s recorded love songs and personal experiences written out -in which we can see he SOUGHT God, he WORSHIPPED God, he LOVED God, he KNEW God, he LIVED FOR God, he REPENTED OPENLY before God, in spite of his glaring humanity and shortcomings. Not so with King Saul… Psalms of David, yes. Psalms of “Saul” = missing from history (because they NEVER existed). Repeating, Saul simply did not have these personal encounters with Jehovah on a daily basis, as King David obviously did -even though both men were anointed to be king. (As later proven by Saul’s request to have Samuel do all the praying/worshipping - even for his own freshly rejected kingdom! See I Samuel 15:30)
Secondly, David (a Righteous man) did something incredible that is so often overlooked and therefore, again, missing from the life experiences of the Reject. I had never noticed this amazing detail until recently looking at our story in fresh light. What is this powerful point?
I believe Truth would say this:
“David sought Me when no one was watching; He pursued this relationship you previously mentioned, in total seclusion from any living soul; He wanted Me, when no one was around to want him. And he followed My Word, even when the excruciating pain of delay, disappointment, distraction, and danger was his “daily bread” on the way to his assigned place in My Body. No, David was obviously not perfect, but PURITY IN MY EYES was his perfect passion and pursuit… whether he lived, died, won, lost, grew, grieved or gloried in his victorious throne I had given him. But ‘what about the Reject,’ you say? No, sadly he rather wanted to be seen as possessing power in the people’s eyes -when in truth, he possessed none in My eyes.”
In other words, the UNSEEN, INWARD, ULTIMATE MOTIVATIONS OF THE HEART were grossly distinguished between these two kings. (Again, read I Samuel 15: 24-30, for the “showmanship” Saul wanted in front of the people. Compare this with David’s broken, repentant heart -before God alone- in Psalms 51.)
Even after they had been anointed by God, the very next time they are displayed to the public reveals some fascinating insights. Saul, after his anointing, when Samuel publicly announces him to Israel as their king, is found “hiding among the baggage”. (The roots of insecurity would be a whole other message ;-) David, alternatively, is also anointed by Samuel, but the next time he is on public display we see a much different heart. For David steps out in Godly faith and boldly slaughters the giant, who taunted, terrorized and targeted God’s true possession! You know... the same giant not even Saul would go out to fight, although “he was taller than any of the people from his shoulders upward” (of course, speaking of his higher “Headship”... Oh boy!)
This previous distinction now leads to our 3rd contrast between Saul and David:
Things were most certainly not equal in God’s eyes between the Reject and the Righteous, but their true hearts were only manifested after being tested by THE WORD of the Lord Himself. In the example of Saul, the Rejected, I noticed something I cannot recall hearing mentioned in any real detail. We know Saul was twice scolded in being demoted by Samuel, representing God’s Voice in this Old Covenant story. Samuel stated, that Jehovah “has rejected you from being king." And just three verses later, he repeats, “the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel." (see I Samuel 15:23, 26) But what had escaped my eyes previously is the fact that Scripture never states that Saul actually himself “rejected the LORD”. Huh?!? Nope! But instead, we see something more subtle, even hard to fathom perhaps…
Point Three: SAUL WAS REJECTED BY GOD, NOT FOR HIS LACK OF KNOWING THAT JEHOVAH WAS TRULY GOD (or “paying lip-service” to God); but rather, BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY “rejected THE WORD of the LORD.” I repeat for clarity and effect… in God’s viewpoint, how you treat HIS WORD and HIS WORDS TO YOU are the ULTIMATE MEASURE OF WHETHER you become REJECTED or will be found righteously justified by faith in (the Words of) Jesus. Remember, the Word made flesh, “came unto His own, and His own received Him not.” They too rejected the Logos of the Lord, therefore God rejected them and brought salvation to the non-Jewish peoples. (Thank God He can now, unlike Saul, “graft them in again” to His Saving Word -unlike Saul, who lost his kingdom forever.) Wow! It’s amazing how clear the Scripture becomes when Truth is speaking it in our ears that really hear. Saul never “denied” the Lord. He never is seen as someone who cursed God, or even disagreed with God. After all, it was THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, who had “dissed” God as their true King, in asking for (and submitting to) a mere man to “rule over them”. (Sound familiar? :-)
I’m having difficulty moving beyond this third all-important lesson. Question: Have you or I ever been rejected BY the Lord? Answer: Have you or I ever rejected, laid aside, dis-respected, dis-obeyed, “dissed” His eternal Word?
Here are a few more Biblical exhortations that should make any Truth-Seeking heart shutter at the possibility of being rejected:
(No wonder Jeremiah was known as “the weeping prophet”.) The Old Covenant was obviously much harsher in its physical treatment of the Rejects, who kept on rejecting the Word of the Lord. But even under a new and “better covenant, which was established on better promises” the writer of Hebrews concluded the following, harsh New Testament reality:Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight! Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink, who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away justice from the righteous man! Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, and the flame consumes the chaff, so their root will be as rottenness, and their blossom will ascend like dust; Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. Their carcasses were as refuse in the midst of the streets. For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand is stretched out still. -Isaiah 5:20-25
Moreover you shall say to them, "Thus says the LORD: "Will they fall and not rise? Will one turn away and not return? Why has this people slidden back, Jerusalem, in a perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit, they refuse to return. I listened and heard, but they do not speak aright. No man repented of his wickedness, saying, ‘What have I done?' Everyone turned to his own course, as the horse rushes into the battle. Even the stork in the heavens knows her appointed times; and the turtledove, the swift, and the swallow observe the time of their coming. But My people do not know the judgment of the LORD. How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken. Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD; so what wisdom do they have? Therefore I will give their wives to others, and their fields to those who will inherit them. Because from the least even to the greatest everyone is given to covetousness. From the prophet even to the priest everyone deals falsely. For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace!' When there is no peace. Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; in the time of their punishment they shall be cast down," says the LORD. -Jeremiah 8:4-12
For if we sin willfully AFTER we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. ANYONE who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God (again, the Logos, the Word) underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. -Hebrews 10:26-31
I cannot speak for your soul, but “as for me and my house” we will be honoring God’s Word, Son, Spirit and Grace with utmost care and worshipful devotion. So, if you have found yourself laying down the proper care of (by refusing to “rightly divide”) the very Word of Truth - and have instead been lost in the mix of people willing to overlook sin, ration away demonic doctrines, become deceived by “manifest-ations” of “presence”... or accept ANY MAN that calls himself something the Word of God does not- turn your mind, heart and will in the opposite direction. A NEW KING IS HERE, “the King of Righteousness”, the only One worthy to give your life (or money) to. I might just be merely one voice “calling out in the wilderness”, but someone can surely “purify your soul by obedience to the Truth”. (Read I Peter 1:13-25) Don’t be a reject! Please!
God’s Righteousness was paid for in Blood… His own! Don’t count that as a “common (worthless) thing.”
My prayer for you who hunger and thirst for His Righteousness is this:
May the Spirit of true Grace humble any lofty, idea, message, philosophy, or voice that dares to set up its empire and throne above the very Word of God… that the “eyes of your understanding would be enlightened that you may know” for yourself (as opposed to “being told” by the Rejected) the Hope of God’s calling you into personal fellowship with His dear Son (Word).
"I love you in the Truth and pray these thoughts have not merely been “of mine own mind”, but that those who are truly spiritual will be able to judge them as such. “Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, and make straight paths for YOUR feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:12-14)
P.S. - Your “best days and your blessed days” are NOT out in your future somewhere (so close, yet soooo far, huh?) The WORD SAYS: “TODAY… IS… THE DAY… of SALVATION”.
“And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. -Revelation 22:17
“So if the Son LIBERATES YOU [makes you free men], then you are really and unquestionably FREE.” John 8:36 (Amp.)
*ARTICLE SUBMITTED BY: DMAC64
(if you have an article you would like to submit, please e-mail blog author at speakingtruthinlove@yahoo.com
A question on the passage of Hebrews 10: 26 - 31. What is the proper interpretation of this scripture? Is this talking about personal sin in a person's life?
ReplyDeleteHey everyone! You can also check out dmac64's website:
ReplyDeletehttp://624creations.com/Home.html
He has a plethora of articles and podcasts -lots of sound biblical teaching/exhortations.
Thanks for the great post, I have kind of forgotten and overlooked passages like Hebrews 10:26 for so long, thats no one's fault but my own...I think I've been consumming a poor spiritual diet under all of these sloppy grace/prosperity teachings. There still remains something in me that wants to live by a higher moral standard...there is something in me that doesn't want to toe the line and try to see what I can get away with just because I can. Everyday I think, I can do better than this, not because I have to, not because I think if I don't i'm going to go to hell, just because I WANT to, I WANT to do the right things, I want to read the word of God the right way...not the self interested, hypocritical way.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this blog, I'm seriously considering my steps from here on out...
To Anonymous (12:06 am)-
ReplyDeleteThanks for reading and asking a great question! I do believe Scripture is quite clear that "every man will give account of himself" before God... and "the fire will test every mans' work", so, Yes. Since I am not accountable for another's choices/actions, I believe this passage refers to our own transgressions. HOWEVER... read it thoughtfully again. It is addressing those who choose to keep sinning WILLFULLY, yet AFTER they know the Truth does not support such Sin. Obviously, we all can err, but this is rather a harsh warning to those who usurp the Grace of God. "Shall we CONTINUE in Sin, that Grace may abound? God Forbid!" Romans 6:1 (see also I Timothy 5:20)
--Hope this clarifies a bit!
to Anonymous (11:40 am)-
ReplyDeleteGlad you enjoyed the post! Your words struck me here: "I think I've been consumming a poor spiritual diet under all of these sloppy grace/prosperity teachings"
This is the sad reality of the lives (and doctrine) of those I call "Grace-Twisters". MP always (verrrry slyly & subtly) slithers his words regarding "Grace" and "not being focused on Sin-consciousness." Unfortunately, what sounds so smooth, is rather a poisonous cloak of deception to keep people from looking too closely at his own shameful lifestyle- and, as you admitted struggling with, to keep people comfortable even in their own self-lowered standards.
A slippery path it is to rape and abuse God's Grace while covering your own unrepentant tracks. Jesus had no problem saying "your sins be forgiven you", but he also added, "Go and SIN NO MORE". That is the essence of a REAL Grace. Not an excuse-laden oratory about how we've all got "issues", but rather a true empowering to live a Godly life, according to His Word.
Be encouraged here! The "law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, HAS SET YOU FREE from the law of sin and death"... set you free, to be "alive unto God, but dead unto sin." Agreeing that as you "ponder the path of your feet", a taste for Truth will keep growing in your heart and lifestyle.
-Blessings!
dmac624-thank you, I've gotten more truth here in one day from reading this blog than I have gotten in twelve years at Cornerstone. Please keep telling the truth, I need to hear it, and more of it and more often...
ReplyDeleteDmac, Do you still sin from time to time?
ReplyDelete@Anonymous 10:00PM - I believe you misunderstood the spirit of this article. It's about recognizing where you are at. Seeing the signs in your own life. If the righteous man, continue on your path. If unrighteous, even perhaps unknowingly, then reconsider your ways, your heart. Pray that the Father will help guide you on the righteous path. Many times, as christians, we fall into habits that we believe are right or even honoring God. It's only when we stop and evaluate our hearts do we see if we have strayed from truth. I know personally, it took awhile to see that even though I served faithfully in many ministries, my heart wasn't in it to serve God, but rather for recognition and promotion from the "man of God." Self-promotion doesn't honor God. I had to stop and check my own heart to realize where I had erred. If anyone at the time would have told me that self-promotion was really my heart's condition, I would have denied it vigorously. It took scripture and the Lord and even others to wake me up to my true condition. The debate is not about whether Dmac sins. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But rather what we do when we realize we have sinned in our attitudes and heart. Do we repent and turn around or do we deny God and continue forward. That is the message being conveyed here.
ReplyDeleteI have to chew on this post for a day or two more. One story I have always loved was David and Saul. Saul was a total nutbag and yet, he was God's anointed.
ReplyDeleteI always felt that THAT was a lesson in and of itself; just because they are anointed does NOT mean they are 1. Sane, 2. The "right" leader.
One of my favorite "incidences" was when David snuck up on Saul in the cave. [1 Samuel 24]. He doesn't touch the Lord's anointed, he cuts the corner of his robe off, however.
Granted, David felt a bit bad over the whole thing. It was the wing of the King's garment...
I know the wings of the garment is a symbol of covering: Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast (ps57 - KJV)
This all ties in somehow, I just haven't figured it out yet.
All excellent posts and spot on comments about the poor spiritual diet at CStone. I believe it was Michael himself that once preached it is unhealthy to eat of the same diet all of the time. You get out of balance. Yet, he does not encourage his members to listen to or read anything other than what they bring into the house. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that I was a very long time member at CStone. I came under the spell of a man who drew me across boundaries I was not comfortable with, but because of sloppy grace messages, I downplayed what I knew was obvious sin. After all, "God was not going to play all of our sins and faults on a big screen when we get to heaven". "We shouldn't be sin conscious....If it were that easy to lose our salvation, we would all be in trouble".
Those words followed by, "Hear what I'm saying, I'm not saying this gives you a license to sin."
The problem with that sloppy teaching is that all that preceded the last statement about the license to sin took precedence over that last statement in people's minds. Their brains had already settled into the minimization of sin which is of higher priority than a less appealing statement like, "this isn't a license to sin".
Funny thing though, after I left CStone and was no longer under that perverse spirit and teaching/preaching, I ceased my sin and clearly knew it was sin and not something to make excuses about.
Dmac thanks for your post and for sharing the pure Word of God - no added revelations that aren't found in the Bible that give feel good goose bumps, but are of little real spiritual value or of help to others in need.
One last thing, there is a reason MP leaves such passages of scripture out of the diet he feeds his sheep. He has to feed his sheep what it takes to minimize his own sin and that of the other leaders and headship sitting on the platform. Once it is minimized, it is more easily accepted as normal, "none of us is perfect", and is then easily overlooked by "forgiveness and grace" and a we don't judge mentality.
God bless Dmac and all of those seeking the pure and simple undefiled Word of God.
Lies,
ReplyDeleteAgain, you can't use a story from the OT regarding Saul and David and and try to compare it to NT leadership today. Through the blood of Christ we all have the SAME ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit by Faith. Christ is the HEAD of EVERY MAN and every means every.
This is where so many people miss it, they lack an understanding of the NT model of ministry and then come up with creative stuff like cutting off a hem of Sauls garment has to do with a covering.
We are all Kings and Priests with varying gifts. Michael never had more anointing than any other Christian. He may have a teaching gift and the gift of exhortation but that is who he is and God never chose him as King of Toledo in the past and now is looking to replace him for another KING.
Bottom Line: Robert is a great business man and Michael a good entertainer. Put the two together and you have a nice business model whether you are selling pipe dreams or copy machines.
There is no ANOINTED ONE except Jesus. We all have the same anointing. This is the new covenant not the old covenant.
If Michael is erring in his ways then he will reap what he sows. It is a spiritual law. People will leave because what he says he is does not agree with scripture.
Hope this helps. Michael teaches so much OT leadership style that people forget that it is not the NT model.
The OT is a forshadowing and is far more poetic and symbolic. I was pondering that the cutting of Saul's garment was an act of removing the false King's authority. An act that I have done myself, MANY TIMES.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it--things have only as much power as we give them. It has NOTHING to do with anointing...
It seems to me, symbolically speaking, that David sent the message that he (David) was NOT under Saul.
Just my ponderings.
"Bottom Line: Robert is a great business man and Michael a good entertainer. Put the two together and you have a nice..."
... circus.
Out from under sloppy grace-
ReplyDeleteI never thought of it that way, thanks for breaking it down for me. I am beginning to see "how" they preach and how it gets people under their spell...and how I was under the spell to.
"How about you be willing to lay down your life and get uncomfortable for someone else for a change."
ReplyDeleteA and MEN.
After attending Cornerstone for ten years, I too have moved on almost four years ago. I realized once I left that Jesus had not been preached for as long as I could remember. The Holy Spirit was preached, God and His Glory was preached, but Jesus Christ....not so much. Even when there was a mention of Jesus, it was always about how it related to the power and authority that He died to give us. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe that because of Christ's death, I am given power and authority, but that power and authority is over sin. That is what is wrong with the theology there at the stone.....it is all so self-centered and serving. How about we should just be out of our minds excited that we are free, that we are saved and that we get to be in realtionship with the creator of the universe. I am so sick of the gimme, gimme mentality. How about lets look at the suffering of Christ. He said, "no greater love has a man than this, that he would lay down his life for his friends." We want to do "greater exploits" than Jesus? How about you be willing to lay down your life and get uncomfortable for someone else for a change. There is no greater witness than really loving someone by laying down your agenda to help or serve them. That is what wins people to Christ. The saddest thing of all that is still taking place there today is that the leadership could really give a rip about those in their own community that are hungry and lost, they are too worried about "the vision" and "where God is taking" them. If you don't believe me, ask yourself why they quit doing the "WOWJAMS" AND how little money they actually give to feed the poor and clothe them. Or what programs do they do to help the lost in Toledo. Very, very little......especially when the two at the top make HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars every year, justifying it by the "sloppy prosperity message." Want to fulfill the calling in your life and excersise the gifts that God has given you? Just picking up your bible and doing what it tells you to do.....LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Guess what, its a whole lot harder to do that than it is to keep waiting for the vision that God (SUPPOSEDLY) gave someone else to come to fruition.
ReplyDeleteya know many people are writing about their experiences and that is great therapy so you can forgive the church for their part of the puzzle. But the one thing I want to know is this. Has your life gotten better since you have left. This is something I seem to continue to hear is that they get to let go of the useless volunteer work and then have more time for theirselves again and great miracles have happened. Not sure what to believe.
ReplyDeleteTo the past:
ReplyDeleteThank you friend for your humble comment! You ask a very good question. Is life really better on the other side?
Let me preface my reply to you by first saying that everyone’s experience is different and similar in many ways –depending upon how long you attended, how involved you were, and what Cornerstone personally meant to you. When you first realize that you were/are apart of a spiritually abusive church and the blinders come off –I would be misleading if I didn’t say it is painful. Quickly, the lights come on and you begin to realize that all you had been “waiting for” and “dreaming of” for yourself and the church…is over. It’s like being suddenly layed off after 20 yrs. of dedicated service and vision….just to pick up your “box of trinkets” and walk out the door. Then the company “goes on”, as if you had never been there. So yes, it is hard to say the least, BUT the good news is --THAT’S NOT the end of the story!!
After leaving, the Holy Spirit Himself will take you on a journey to process all of the things you were taught, helping you to sort thru the “junk” and “keep” piles. Soon things will start to become clearer..yes, you will have a lot of “ahh”…moments. A lot of “how do I ever not see this/that??” Unfortunately, no one realizes exactly how much damage has been done (especially to your doctrine), UNTIL AFTER leaving. However, the truths, healing, and wisdom you will gain during that process are absolutely life changing and will open up a whole new world of freedom and liberty in Christ!
So yes, initially there is a process of grief and anger and hurt you may go thru. This is healthy and normal for anyone going thru loss. Talking will be great therapy for you. However, the beauty is that a NEW LIFE is just opening up to you!!! The Lord God Himself will draw very close to you; He will take your hand and lead you forward. There is a plan of God waiting for you…btw --but you must TRUST the guide knows where He’s going. What I mean by this, DO NOT FEAR THAT YOU WILL “MISS OUT” ON SOMETHING, because the Lord is your Great Shepherd and Overseer –He’s got you covered! Where ever He leads you, He covers you…
Friend, I know that there is a lot of information out there. My heart is heavy for you, because I know how difficult and confusing it can be. Please know that it will not be MAN that delivers you…it will be by the HAND of the Almighty. I feel you need to not worry or fear… “God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.” (Trust and Love go hand in hand) There is also an element of FAITH that it takes to leave a spiritually abusive system..you must trust the voice of the Holy Spirit and His leadings. We were all told things about “those” who have left..bad things happen you know? lol..Yeah, I use to believe that too! When you get out of the “bubble” and visit some other churches and fellowship with other believers outside the “bubble”, you realize that what you were in was NOT normal. IT was unhealthy…it was like living in a dream world…waiting, waiting, waiting, forever waiting for something. Friend, God is now…He is in the present!!!
My prayer for you: “May the Lord God keep his hand upon you, may the trappings and manipulation of man be far from you! May God lead you forward and onto ALL that He has been preparing for YOU…all these years! May joy be yours once again…May peace replace all the confusion and shame! May the guilt and fear break off of your life in the name of Jesus Christ! May you KNOW the Word of the Lord for your LIFE--THIS VERY DAY! God bless!!
***And YES -MY LIFE IS SOOO MUCH BETTER NOW..I am free to follow the Word of God for my life! (All that He has done over these yrs. would be another article in and of itself!!)
*Can somebody give a BRIEF TESTIMONY to our friend here?
And one more thing...You AREN’T forced to leave "yourself" behind, when you do leave. I thought I would have to sacrifice "my Isaac" when I left. Good grief. NO -Your Life just continues on!...Take the GOOD and GO.
ReplyDelete"Has your life gotten better since you have left."
ReplyDeleteI am still pretty nervous about speaking publicly about my story. It still hurts.
Simply put: Yes. My life is better.
Psychologically - MUCH better.
Career - MUCH better.
Family - SO MUCH better
Spiritually - still a struggle, but I don't mind.
PROSPERITY:
I have less money than I did when I worked there - but I found a return to my old adage, "It's only money." I find I happily help where I can either with money or volunteering. I have always been one to get my hands dirty. I bet no one on staff could tell you about anything I did in the community. I am learning that abundance isn't money.
FAMILY
I have more time just "being" with my children. And it is beautiful. I can't explain it. I felt as though serving in the Stone's ministry took about 300%. One person suggested the family get involved with me. I did just that. Then I realized all my time with my first ministry (family) was spent doing tasks in the House. Not that THAT is a problem, I just feel that it is also a wonderful testimony to be outside of those four walls having a life. I am learning that ministering to the ministering isn't the same as ministering to the world.
CAREER/CALLING
God called me in a specific direction. I am now free to keep moving that way. The rewards finding my way are endless. At CStone, there were so many walls to climb and hoops to jump through, I never felt like I ever used my gifts. Nor do I feel I would ever get the chance.
I also learned that New Levels aren't coming - they are here. Now. And it is up to me to take it all and run with it.
I am blessed. He is my shepherd. And no matter how ridiculous I am in life, He always loves me and allows me His presence. He holds my heart in His heart.
Glad to throw in some thoughts here to a great question!
ReplyDeleteIt's been 4 1/2 years (yeay!) since I have exited Stage Left from what I term the "Snow-Globe" ministry. You know, the little glass trinket that if you're trapped INSIDE of, you can still look out and see the big world around you, and call yourself "Global", but in REALITY, YOU are the one locked up in their (tiny) vision and have to keep turning your focus inward on their self-centered propaganda.
To summarize, I was amazed how small and myopic my life and pursuits had been reduced to when slaving away at whatever "Papa Smurf", Smurfette, and the paid Smurfs wanted me to do, when/how they wanted it done.
YES! Life is good, work is happy, MARRIAGE SAVED (rather than another C-stone statistic), wife/kids DEFINITELY reaping benefits of our Liberty, relationships way better (though less in number), Peace in my soul and the total ABSENCE OF UNDERLYING FRUSTRATION/ANGER that I could never "put my finger on" has been realized! No, it has NOT been easy nor quick, but to re-quote MP himself, "the path of the RIGHTEOUS burns brighter & brighter to the Perfect Day... my path is getting Straighter, my Life is getting Better, and oh- yes, I AM SOMEBODY on my WAY SOMEWHERE with SOMETHING BIG TO DO FOR GOD! (just not for the rejected fifedom known as the 'Stone)
Hope this is some food for prayerful reflection with your Master... "Break LOOSE and BREAK FREE, where the Spirit of the LORD is, THERE is LIBERTY! Yeeaaaah!" :o)
The Past said... "Has your life gotten better since you have left."
ReplyDeleteYes emphatically yes. Although we were taught to ignore symptoms contrary to what you believe, denial does not make a person healthy. After I left my marriage became so much better than it ever was. I truly know that we would have ended in divorce had we continued in the church we were in.
My children are now prospering. My family is really a family. It should be noted that the more involved you become in an abusive church the more your family suffers and is splintered. "Serving" as a family is no more family time than sleeping in the same house.
Spiritually I am soooo much better. In many ways I have returned to the truth I knew 15 years ago, but now I have learned to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and that my success is determined by how well I hear him and respond accurately.
Financially I am better off. This has nothing to do with being successful. Nor does it mean I am blessed, favored, reaching through into another portal of thinning veils or anything else. Finances are truly irrelevant. However, abusive church leaders point to the financial condition of those who leave as proof of the curse consuming them due to a lack of "covering." Do NOT be tricked by this lie. These same leaders cover up and avoid the truth of the multitudes of poor and destitute members that fill the seats each service. If wealth and wage determines whether you are blessed under the "covering", then the covering is clearly not working in these abusive churches. The majority of the people that I personally know, do better financially once they leave the personality cult. (I challenge anyone to study out what a personality cult is, and then deny that c-stone et al is one.)
In short, c-stone and their denomination (er uh "network" wink-wink nudge-nudge) want you to think that those who leave are cursed and withering away, but this is simply not the truth. Success is not measured by the twisted ruler used in their doctrine. However, even by their own standard, the overwhelming majority of the near 100s of people that I personally know who have left, have experienced incredible improvements in nearly every aspect of their lives since leaving. Yet tales of great woe are continually spread about those who leave. The most common falsehood spread about those who have survived c-stone and its franchises, is #1 - that we divorce. #2 - we start our own churches and they fail. #3 - we can't find jobs and are broke. #4 - our kids go crazy.
Nearly once a month I hear that "so and so got divorced!" Sometimes I hear that my wife and I have divorced. That's always a funny one. Nothing like the look on a person's face when you tell them "nope. not divorced. better than ever though. where did you hear such a strange thing?"
ReplyDeleteThe staring a church thing is also funny. Since meeting in your home to fellowship around the word of God is biblical and also the only example in the word of God of what "church" is....I find it interesting when the pulpit address the "disgruntled, snakes, rats, barn owls etc, who have left start their own churches and only have a handful of people.... bahahaha what a joke." I know that controlling abusive churches do not "sanction" any home bible studies and therefore consider that any that crop up to be church plants. But I find it funny that a biblical gathering of believers (albeit non-stone sanctioned) is considered a church. Oh wait, Jesus does too. In fact it's his model. Forget the fact that we just want to do the bible and we are SUPPOSED to gather together, being discipled and discipling others (which incidentally cannot happen inside the OFFICIAL church walls...)
If jobless and broke is a sign of the curse of no-covering, then let's line up the cursed folks in the pews first. You deal with all of them and then let's use this bullet against those who have left.
Kid's going crazy? Now that's placing "kid's in the house" in a HUGE blind spot. I know for a FACT that kid's in "the house", under "covering" are experiencing far greater instances of "going crazy". Again, this argument cannot be used if an honest look is first given to the "house". The refusal to deal with real issues cloud this, but all it takes is some honesty and a desire for our youth to serve God beyond their college years. This simply is not common in the cult of personality.
I want to make this last point about people who are lead to leave abusive churches. And YES you are LEAD to leave. God does not lead you into bondage. He always leads you out. SO if you can see you are in bondage, know that your decision to leave is a response to the Holy Spirit LEADING you to leave.
ReplyDeleteMY LAST POINT:
Some people who leave, DO NOT do well. Spiritually they remain unhealthy and emotionally they remain damaged. I do not know a single person in this "category" who have fully "plugged in" to a church body. Being a disciple of Christ means hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit and responding to what he says. He always leads us to "do life" with other believers. We cannot get/remain healthy on our own.
If you have left c-stone or another abusive church FIND A CHURCH BODY AND PLUG IN. I cannot stress this enough! It is critical to your healing and development as a believer. You NEED people to "do life" with. Find some people who want to hear from the Holy Spirit and want to do what the bible says. Don't worry about the trappings of the "church experience". The Holy Spirit will speak to you almost anywhere as long as Biblical exegesis is practiced and valued. But beyond the "church stuff" is the community of believers. You NEED to belong to a small group of believers WITHIN the Church that you can share with, grow with, love with, cry with, heal with. This is BIBLICAL and critical for your spiritual health.
When you leave GET IN A CHURCH. Honestly ANY church. Try others if the first church doesn't fit right. But the Holy Spirit WILL lead you and place you in a church body. He absolutely will. But if you don't expect him to lead you, are not listening, or don't get in the car and start going, you will miss out on the next step of your journey that God has for you. PLEASE trust me on this. I'm living proof that it works.
The reason I asked if Life was better since Cornerstone is because I have been contemplating leaving for many years. The hard part is WHERE DO I GO? It seems everyone around me is in financial crisis or some sexual problem at the church. ( I do believe the church is under a spiritual warfare with perversion) But am I just going for personal selfish gain. Because I love the music and the people that go there and Bishop keeps my interest in his sermon. Deep down I think I may know God is nudging me to leave but it is hard when you have planted your children and taking them up and out of church. Still confused. I am not too involved so they won't even know that I am gone...just trying to get the courage to commit to my decision to leave.
ReplyDeleteI SEE ALOT OF FIGHTING GOING ON ...OVER THESE SIGHTS ABOUT "THE CORNERSTONE CHURCH" IT IS SO OBVIOUS TO ME THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE MINISTRIES ARE VERY UPTIGHT AND DEFENSIVE YET THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT FEEL ANGER TO WHY DID THEY FALL FOR THE STUFF. MY PROBLEMS WITH THE CHURCH IS THIS, WHEN YOU HEAR THAT DERIK AND JILL ARE HAVING AN AFFAIR AND HE RUNS TIGHT WITH PITTS...THEN LEAVE ...DON'T HANG AROUND THAT GARBAGE AND DO NOT LOOK BACK. BUT AFTER YOU LEAVE DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT TO OTHERS,BECAUSE YOU BECOME THE SAME AS THEY ARE SITTING AROUND COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO LEFT. I HAD TO FINALLY LET GO MYSELF SO I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE THAT IT IS NOT WORTH LOOSING SLEEP OVER "PEOPLE" IF YOU ARE TRULY A FOLLOWER OF GOD GIVE IT TO HIM SO YOU CAN GO ON WITH YOUR LIFE...AND FORGIVE THOSE PEOPLE...THEY ARE ALL WOUNDED AND VICTIMS, JUST LOVE THEM!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTo “Lover Not a Fighter”:
ReplyDeleteInteresting comment…where to begin??
According to your post, it looks like you have it “all figured out” and aren’t in need of any help moving forward.…so I’m not sure WHY you are here. There are a plethora of other blogs who aren’t interested in helping people; perhaps your opinions would be more flattering there.
But since this is your first post, I will give you a “fair shake” response. However, we ask that no one post “information” on supposed affairs; especially naming people. This is not fair to the families involved. I’m sure the entire Thomas family (including the children) are dealing with enough. And also…this blog isn’t the place for that –period. Next time your comment will be deleted on the spot…please understand.
Don't be offended friend, but I'd have to ask you what “fighting” are you referring to? It certainly is not coming from what you've read on this blog. You must be referring to the “hype” coming from those who don't want this blog read.
You are also assuming that this blog is a place for all the “offended folk” to congregate and mull over all the stuff we are so angry about at Cornerstone. No offense, but you obviously haven’t bothered reading ANY of our other articles and the comments made by several people. People AREN’T dealing with unforgiveness…they are dealing with the effects of years of Spiritual Abuse. They are processing things and seeking guidance from their brothers and sisters in Christ…something quite biblical. Please understand, that most gave 10+ - 20+ yrs. or more of their families’ life to a church that simply treated them like “yesterday’s trash”. Others have successfully transitioned and healed and want to help others do the same. So (again) if that’s not you….this blog isn’t for you.
I would also never advise you to get into any type of professional counseling. Any Cult- Exit expert will tell you that leaders of Spiritually Abusive Churches WANT you to do EXACTLY what you have suggested--
Which was:
1)NOT to talk about what happened
2)Just “accept” dysfunctional behavior..no one is “perfect”
3)Just “leave”..yep, wipe your hands of everything and not worry about the process of recovery…ahh, that’s not important at all!
4)Simply just “don’t hang out with that garbage” –yep it’s that simple! No need to seek the will of the God on the matter. No need to exhaust yourself on the process, it’s not like you haven’t been taught for years that you’ll be leaving your “covering” or anything… So again, no worries! Everyone’s happy! Just cover it all up..that'd be PERFECT wouldn't it?!
This blog is not about “attacking” Cornerstone; you give us too much credit. I cannot speak for everyone; but 99% of the 100’s of people I’ve talked to (including 8 ex-staff members) --wish everyone at Cornerstone the best. They just loved Michael Pitts enough to no longer support was has become spiritually abusive. And THAT’S what real love does.
Always remember this friend; God doesn’t take sides…He takes over. Come out of the “for me or against me” hype for one minute…IT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST.
To the past:
ReplyDeleteI believe you can do this friend! If God is nudging you..trust His leading! However, I can relate to what you are feeling and going through at this time. Yes, it is a hard thing to do..but a right thing. So much BETTER is waiting for you and your family.
But, I will say that moving forward can be especially difficult when you don't have all the answers. Ahh…if life could just have that “Easy Button”, right? This is going to require your faith in following the voice of the Holy Spirit.
As far as your children, they will be better in the long run to not have grown up in a spiritually abusive church. In the meantime (depending on their age), I would sit them down and explain to them (on their terms) that God is leading you to a new place of worship. Use it as a “teaching experience” for them. I know hundreds who have left the church with children and they have transitioned very smoothly! Sure it’s a season of change, but it’s exciting to see what God has in store for you!
So here’s some practical advice:
Ask God for the 1st step.
When I left. I was initially so concerned about "where is my next church?" So afraid to "miss the right place" to go next. I found that God was more interested in the PROCESS I needed to go through after leaving, than He was worried about the particular church I attended.
I'm not saying God doesn't have a particular church for you to visit or attend. But I am saying, don't get hung up on all the details. TRUST GOD IN THE PROCESS!
My prayer for you:
“May God grant you the wisdom and faith to follow His voice. May He confirm His will to you. May His written word be your guiding light. The Lord is your Shepherd, you shall not want! He will make you lie down in green pastures. He will lead you beside still waters; He will restore your soul. He will lead you in paths of righteousness for His name’s sake. Even though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, fear no evil –for He is with you!! His rod and staff comfort you.”
Remember, it’s the valley of the SHADOW of death..it appears real, but it’s the “image” in our MINDS that keep us afraid! Just keep walking friend!
To the past:
ReplyDeleteI can totally relate to your fears about pulling your children out of church. That was one of my biggest fears when we realized that God had called us to leave. To be honest, it was a definite walk of faith. Because of their various ages, they each had a different reaction and it was a struggle for me to try to meet each child's concerns and needs. For my little ones, it was confusion as to why a place where they had felt safe and loved, where all their friends were, was suddenly cut off to them. My older children were angry and hurt, a lot of their emotions mirrored my own. Their anger was directed at MP, at me for attending CC, even at God. Only through time, lots of lovin, and open, honest communication were they able to work out their emotions.
I reiterate that it has been A WALK OF FAITH! But God has been so good! I can honestly say that my children have a much better walk with God now then they did while attending CC. I am forever grateful to the Maus' and all the time and effort they put into the children's church. My kids have the Word in their hearts on a level which amazes me still. But since leaving CC, they have begun to see the Word in action. They are more aware of the world around them, rather than what happens within a certain church's doors. Yes, some of it can be attributed to natural maturity. But I see a lot more compassion, understanding and love for their neighbors than I had before.
The best advice is to be honest with your kids. Try to be transparent with your own faith, what you feel God is putting on your heart and what is going on at CC. (Not necessarily the human sins,unless they're older, but rather the concepts of what is right by Gods standards for a ministry and where CC is abusing this authority) I would even share my emotions to show them that their emotions are OK and healthy and temporary. Honestly, it will not be easy. I can remember so many conversations where I would silently beg God to put the right words in my mouth. But I guarantee that your obedience to His prompting will be a blessing to you and your children once you make it through the transition season.
One of the hardest lessons I had to learn as a parent is that God loves my children even more than I do. And that HE is faithful to them, to see them through. And while as a human parent I try to keep them from hurting as much as I possibly can, God loves them enough to put them through the hard times that WILL benefit them. He sees the other side. And even better, HE will never leave them nor forsake them through the journey. I HAD TO LEARN to give Him full control and to trust, even where those dearest to my heart was concerned. It wasn't easy, but I am so glad that I have.
God bless you! Know that there are many people praying for you!
We at CStone are under no spell...save the presence of God...I know it may be hard to understand but over the past year or so MP has preached on love and getting into the community and being there for fellow man. I can't answer for their personal sins as I was unaware of any of them...not my place to know or judge. I am concerned about the teachings and what my kids are getting out of it. I pray we have raised them to think and question and not blindly follow. I want you to know we at CStone are not "zombies" blindly following a man...we are serving God 1st and foremost. I pray for 'past' who is struggling with their decision...I too am contemplating where God is leading our family, but I'm putting my faith and trust in God and Him only. There is a lot of bashing out there about a spiritually abused church, but I dont think we all see it that way...there is good people there with hearts of gold who would give you the shirt off their back in a heartbeat...I chose to focus on the positive and to LOVE as God has called me to do. With that love being as Jesus loved...Jesus is my savior and my idol...I live to serve Him and follow His teachings! This is my life, this is my calling, and to date CStone has been where I've been called. The whole situation saddenes me for many reasons. May God's love, mercy, grace cover you all! May the Blood of Jesus wash over you to make you whole again! In Jesus' mighty name...AMEN!
ReplyDeleteSaddened,
ReplyDeleteThe "presence of God" is not a "feeling" it is a fact. We are the temples of God. God does not dwell in temples made with men's hands. The earth is the Lord's.
Most of the time when people say they feel the presence of God in a place it is simply an emotional response to great music or preaching. No different than going to a great sports event and getting goose bumps when your team wins at the buzzer.
Again, if you have scripture to back where the presence of God abides and how we should feel it, please post it here.
It is one thing to preach on Love and tell others to Love and it is another thing for you to Love and be an example to the flock. Michael Pitts does not bear the fruit of Love.
Love does not slander and cold shoulder people who have served your kingdom for 20 years for pennies in salary. Love honors and respects others and what they feel God is calling them to do at a certain season.
Love does not "control" people and name call those who no longer wish to pad your coffers so you can buy radio stations and rental properties for you and your brother's retirement plan.
Love doesn't allow people who are leaders in an "assembly" to take advantage of people sexually. How is that loving those who you are "called" to under shephard?
Love does not hold a conference and invite other wolves in to financially rape the flock in the name of a "shift". Where is "shift" in the Bible? Another false hope message from the false prophets.
Love is not arrogant to the place where you think your "church" is where the real anointing and power is at because you are a super Pastor Apostle Bishop.
Michael treats those who don't agree with him, even with scriptures in hand to support their stance, like a mere heathen.
That is the facts.
Anonymous: I know we are not under OT law, I didn't mean to insinuate that, I was just using examples of God's presence manifesting in the Earth.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely know the Spirit of God is with us at all times, what I am saying is there is a true difference to have His 'PRESENCE' and having His 'SPIRIT' with us. I can promise you, what I feel in God's presence (whether at CStone, my car, my house, etc.) is nothing to what I've felt at a rock concert...way different on so many levels! I am almost paralyzed in God's presence, it's an incredible feeling - life changing - my first experience feeling that was not at the Stone, but when I was a child in my grandma's house! So I do know there is a distinct difference between having the Spirit of God abide in you and feel the power of His PRESENCE! Ahhh...no greater feeling anywhere!
I also know I can hear from God just as anyone else can. I am sorry if I insinuated I couldn't. In fact I pray and hear from God on a daily basis and am seeking His guidance for my life. I never want to disappoint my Daddy! I talk to God so much I'm sure He is starting to use ear plugs (LOL) so I absolutely know this. What I like is when I hear from God I get confirmation through other family members, or church members, or leadership - but I don't need them to hear from God...He is my Daddy and He talks to me all the time! :)
Truth is 95% interpretation. I am praying to God that the truth be revealed and the "wolves i sheep clothing" be exposed and that God will work all things out for good for those who Love HIM and are called according to HIS name. I have said it before and will say it again, I serve only GOD! I live to worsihp HIM and HIM alone. I do not serve man, nor worship any man. I serve in a house I feeled called to at the moment, to serve God's plan - I know where my heart is...I can't speak for anyone elses. I do pray MP makes amends or reconciles to the good/great leadership he had in our house, but left for whatever reasons, I think that would be a great step in Love, you are right. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't, who knows? I do know this, I am about doing God's business and that is not my business...it is between MP and DM and RM and DC and LM and all the others to make reconciliation.
I do pray that those who are seeking the truth about the Stone will search for it by praying to God...for He is the only TRUTH I rely on.
To Saddened:
ReplyDeleteHopefully you read my response to you under “Jesus-the True Cornerstone”. Thanks!
Again, the issue is not with “you” friend –so please don’t feel you have to explain or defend yourself. We all realize that everyone at Cornerstone adheres to what is taught as “protocol of the house” on different levels. Some (unfortunately) had no prior scriptural foundation (before coming) to compare with. Much like bankers are trained to handle the REAL, so that they may instantly know the counterfeit bills as they come through their hands.
So again, we ask that you please understand that the real issue on the table is the unhealthy doctrines and practices of Spiritual Abuse.
To Saddened,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your concern. As for myself, I gave nearly 2 decades of my life to CStone & it was through much prayer & heartache that I chose to leave.
I never would have imagined that things could have gotten so far away from the simple truth of God's Word. Not only that, but I never would have imagined that my spiritual leaders would have gotten into such immoral lifestyles or used their positions of power to manipulate & abuse my relationship w/God. That is what sent me away.
Also, the comment you made about being zombies -blindly following, Michael entices you. He has to draw you in to keep you. It's much like a child sexual predator. They don't come out with horns & a pitchfork. Rather, they come much more appealing, offering the child things that entice them. Then, once they have been enticed & they have done their wicked deed & things have been awakened in that child that never should have been, they are hooked. The experience is both pleasurable & yet despised all at the same time. On the one hand they know what is being done to them is wrong & they should expose it, yet, part of them enjoys it to a degree in a twisted sort of way.
It is much the same way w/MP. He has to entice people to keep them coming back. The music is some of the best around as there are very gifted people in that dept. Also, much money has been spent to create an atmosphere when one walks in & says "WOW". And the various depts. have people who give & give & give of their time to keep things flowing smoothly. Yet, the love is somewhat twisted in that if for some reason you slip up, or have a disagreement or decide it's time to step down, that's when you feel the hammer hit so to speak.
I would venture a guess that if you tried to contact a former pastor & MP or RP found out you did that, things would be vastly different for you or anyone else who did that.
Where is there love & freedom in telling those who have left not to contact members or to tell others at CStone to stay away from certain members who have left because they are "dangerous"? That to me sounds like very paranoid behavior.
It gets better though & here is where the abuse takes place. MP preaches sermons to make a point of those on the "outside" who are "attacking" his ministry because they think for themselves, disagree or point out the truth. For instance, preaching about people not growing because they are in a place of hurt or offense & they make an idol out of that thing. Further, when they stop growing, they get stuck on some tangential thing & spend all of their time researching one thing & become very professorial & full of knowledge about something that only you & 7 others care about.
Good preaching?? It is directed at a very specific target like those who left & now have a voice much like the child sexual abuse victim who begins talking & feeling once their abuser has been exposed.
We who have left CStone & felt violated because of abusive spiritual authority there, are now speaking out. This is our forum & if you take a look at the number of visitiors, it is way more than a small group of 7.
Don't think for one minute that MP's messages are not directed to influence his members toward those "outside". MP is a very intelligent man & knows what he is doing.
I said all of that to say, you are too close to see things clearly. It's like being in an abusive family. You get used to it & it seems normal because it is all you've known for so long. MP preaches about that all the time. Funny thing is, it applies to "his House" as well.
Just some things to think about Saddened. I sensed for a long time that something was wrong, but like so many others, I was afraid to leave because where would I go, & what would I do? Again, it's like the abused child. Things are at the same time very uncomfortable yet very familiar.
To Movin' On:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your truthful, yet kind words to Saddened. The analogies you used were very helpful for those seeking to understand the process of the abuser and the abused.
Thanks again for your much needed contribution friend --very powerful writing!!
Movin' On and Speaking Truth in Love:
ReplyDeleteI hear you and appreciate the kind words. It is a difficult decision as I've been a faithful member for almost 15 years and been serving in the ministry for 14 and I do see the good...it is a family to me... i don't have the close pesonal relationship with MP, RP, etc. and was not aware of any of this. I am a person with their own mind and am grounded enough in my faith and conviction that no man can tell me who I can or cannot talk to...I've had quite a lot of communication with folks who have left...we just don't bring up church. I have over the years tried not to give into the "maddness" and never have put any leadership on a pedastol (not that any of you did...I'm just explaining)...I know why I am there and I'm serving God under that House...but for how long, only God knows the answer. Since stumbling across this blog you can believe I have been praying for God to reveal Himself to me, the the truth would be revealed out of the darkness into the ligh, and lead our family where He has called us. I hope all of us who are still there and stay can have the same perspective...I came from an abusive family and dealt with personal abuse issues as a child and I made up my mind a long time ago noone would ever abuse me in that fashion ever again...trust me when I tell you this...I am not allowing MP or anyone else at CStone to abuse me. I have a close and personal relationship with God/Jesus and have my eyes wide open watching to see how things roll out...but I have tried not to be too judgemental and know men are not perfect and make mistakes like you and me...but having said that...there are just somethings you can't ignore or look away from.
I am very serious when I say this...and from the bottom of my heart...I am SO SORRY for your hurt, frustration, and anger...I am sincerely praying for all of you and believe God's comforting arms are all around you right now allowing His love, peace, joy, and grace to cover you like the waters clothe the sea. Until we speak again, Peace :)
Thanks again for your sentiments Saddened. I am happy to hear that you are seeking the will of God for yourself. God bless your journey friend!
ReplyDeleteTo others --I just want to reiterate AGAIN: Life After Cornerstone was NOT developed out of hurt, frustration, and anger. Some would like to discount it by labeling our motives as such. Why must one "STILL be wounded" simply because they are speaking out --the truth? Objectively think about it. On the other hand, if one is wounded...can they still not know the truth and have a voice?
Speaking Truth in Love,
ReplyDeleteI would like to know if you or anyone else on here knows of a professional in the area who understands spiritual abuse. Someone my husband and I could counsel with. It is much deeper than I imagined. I know God is healing me/us but sometimes we need someone else to help us along the journey. When you go to a place of "refuge" where you are "delivered" from your past hurts, only to be hurt in the same way in what was supposed to be your safe place...well..
Thank you.
To Hurting:
ReplyDeleteGod bless you friend! Thank you for having the courage to reach out to others! YOU are the reason we are doing this blog! You are not alone….We love you and we are praying for you! Please know that what you are going through is very normal..I'm sure you are realizing that you never know how much damage is actually done, until AFTER getting away from it. Keep walking it out..it will be a journey of great challenges, but great discoveries!
I have a link on the right side to Wellspring Recovery Center in Albany, OH.
I have personally called them and talked with them in great length; they are one of the ONLY professional Spiritual Abusive/cult Recovery Centers in the entire nation. Yes, in OHIO of all places?! They do various retreats that will suit your needs and schedule.
Locally I have not found any professional counselors who deal mainly with spiritual abuse. However, there are professional Christian Counselors in the area who should be able to help get you further in your journey.
However, I would like to strongly recommend Wellspring. Check their site out, call them. Then feel free to personally e-mail me at speakingtruthinlove@yahoo.com, with any questions. I also have a few calls out to some area professionals so that I can provide a list for you –I will try my BEST to get back with you tomorrow with that.
In the meantime, have any of our other viewers found a professional Christian Counselor who has helped them recover from spiritual abuse?
Hurting,
ReplyDelete"When you go to a place of "refuge" where you are "delivered" from your past hurts, only to be hurt in the same way in what was supposed to be your safe place...well.."
It is another hit in the arena of trust. As resilient as the human animal is (we are survivors, after all), more hits in the trust area seem to validate the weak places.
The fact that you are aware that it is ok to get help along the way shows that you are, well, AWARE. That's one of the biggest parts of this battle. Pat yourself on the back for recognizing that. Also for the understanding that your trust was broken.
I do not know of any counselors for Christian Spiritual abuse, but I know of cult survivors and satanic cult survivors in the area. I will see who/where they went/go (if they are willing to share).
I am sorry you feel your trust was broken, especially in an area where you were already vulnerable. There is a saying that goes, "We are strong in the broken places."
One thing that I KNOW is that people who are actively working in some kind of real world recovery ARE the strongest, most self aware and spiritual people I have had the honor and blessing of knowing. By real world I mean just that. Not recovery that is over spiritualized and demons are "cast out" by a person barely trained in such life issues. We have to walk the walk.
I have learned that recovery is the process of returning into the presence of God. It is a life long process.
Speaking Truth in Love,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much. I'll check out Wellspring. I'm on my way out right now but will e-mail you this evening.
Appreciate this site and all you are doing.
To Hurting:
ReplyDeleteIn addition to Wellspring, I have a local Christian Counseling Center who has been highly recommended in the area of Spiritual Abuse.
Center for Solutions in Brief Therapy, Inc.
5600 Monroe St., Suite 103B
Sylvania, OH 43560
Tel: (419) 885-5952
ASK FOR: Tim Butler -Therapist
*also you can find their link to right of this page
TO EVERYONE READING: Had I personally known about Wellspring Recovery and Resource Center in Albany, OH when I initially left C-stone --I would have went there THAT VERY WEEK. In all the groups I've spoken to, they are truly the most knowledgeable and sought after Spiritual Abuse Counselors out there. Perhaps you could initially meet with them and then continue with local counseling sessions as a follow up.
But whatever you do --keep moving forward as you seek the ever unfolding plan of God. Finding people you can trust will be a key in this season.
Thank you, Recovering and Speaking Truth in Love. I appreciate your encouraging words as well as the resources. :) I spent a lot of years being healed and "delivered" from the effects of abuse, manipulation and broken trust. So this is a re-opening of the wounds, yet it's a greater hurt than what I'd experience from a friend or family member, etc. - because the violation came from a spiritual leader (where I was receiving healing) who I *thought* was appointed and lead by God. Since I've been in the process of learning to trust God as my heavenly father, this throws a wrench into things. Fortunately, I've experienced God enough and know HIS nature that I will continue trusting Him...but there is still this broken trust again, along with the hurt, and many questions about what is truth and what is not. Of course, the question that is always in the back of my mind is, "Who CAN I trust?" So, yes, Recovering - another hit in the trust arena.
ReplyDeleteNonetheless, I know the power of my God. I seek out other resources because I think that when a person has been manipulated and brain-washed (or, at least, taught doctrines that are questionable and for selfish purposes), it's difficult to figure out what is reality and what isn't. There's confusion taking place and perspectives are also skewed because of the hurt. And sometimes the underlying pain of it, coupled with other challenges and stressors in life, all become overwhelming.
The good thing is that as I spend more time with God and praying in the spirit, my DISCERNMENT increases. It is that discernment that made me aware of what was taking place at C-Stone. It was GOD who told us to leave. If I listen to His voice, He will lead me to people I CAN trust.
Thanks again! Love this blog and what you are doing.
To Hurting,
ReplyDeleteYou speak so truthfully of what all of us have and are continuing to experience. It takes time to undo wrong doctrine and to regain trust and try to sort through what is truth and what isn't.
It is sad that the place where we had received healing or were in the process of being healed now becomes a place of distrust and confusion. But as you said, God will not let us down and He will lead you to those you can trust. You have obviously been led to this blog where so many have shared similar experiences.
We can't all be "off" and disgruntled. Rather, we are merely trying to walk in the real truth and simplicity of God's Word, not some man's hyped up version of God's Word that plays on people's emotions and psyche.
You have made the right decision as you have listened to the voice of God for your life and done what you feel He has led you to do. He will lead you the rest of the way and bring to you the people you need for your continued healing. For He that began a good work in you will complete it.
Be at peace and may God surround you with His love and grace as you journey forward.
OKAY, HOW "OFF" IS THIS POST BY PITTS?! More damage control OBVIOUSLY, he is really working it. 11/9/10 post on facebook: "every GOOD move has its ANTI voices..thank GOD I am not anti love grace or redemption..If around you there is ANTI love ANTI grace ANTI church ANTI authority ANTI christ..letem go they are anti because they aint done nothin been nothin and have forgotten their own sins..imjustsayin" Notice how he throws in "anti-authority" - makes me sick to my stomach! Oh, and "love"?? - is "because they aint done nothin been nothin.." hmmm I don't see the love, only HYPOCRICY! "Better to be known as a sinner than a hypocrite." Proverb
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous 7:27 pm--
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment! I guess it’s not surprising that such insecure and unscriptural statements are coming from someone who is sporting the TITLE of "Bishop", but is no longer QUALIFIED to be one. (I Tim. 3)
It reminds me of someone who has been given a leased car to drive. Then when they are no longer keeping up the payments (requirements)...they still run around, show casing their ride pretending to “BE” someone they are not --knowing the REPO MAN is coming any day to take back what has now become… nothing less than a stolen vehicle.
*When you deviate from God’s Word and use your position to Spiritually Abuse those God has once entrusted you to shepherd –you have no more “authority” than a part-time, crooked cop in a small town. Running around “arresting” anyone who dare defy your barking orders. "Boss Hogg” would be a perfect example..
I haven't commented in awhile, but this latest MP "nugget" of FB ranting begs a question or two: If his loyalists have been "warned from the pulpit" to avoid reading this Truth-saturated blog, then what is he so ticked off about that warrants such a "weak defense" of a FB post? His deceived devotees aren't reading anyway (so he hopes), so he must not like being publicly refuted with Truth from the Word of God. Even though he has no problem publicly "blasting" them from the exalted pedestal on his well-lit stage.
ReplyDeleteAlso, his own hypocrisy smells pretty bad here. He'll warn others not to read this blog, yet his own insecure snippets reveal he has been reading every new post! Shame, shame "Bishop"- what example is that setting to your little band?
In reality MP "loves" only those who "pay up ($$), shut up (with any ?s), and then stand up (to defend his self-consumed money-grubbing hands)! We can be "just sayin" too, hmm?
What kind of Pastor or Bishop says such a thing?? "letem go they are anti because they aint done nothin been nothin and have forgotten their own sins..imjustsayin" Insecure, unscriptural - yes! Also prideful, immature and definitely lacking in love! I mean, c'mon!! I've NEVER heard any other TRUE man of God say something like this!! (not that they haven't or will not, but God forbid!). Hey, "Bishop" Pitts, your true colors are showing again!
ReplyDeleteI like the Boss Hog comparison. Tick, tock...
Hogg
ReplyDeleteWell, how interesting that the good Bishop makes such comments for his devoted flock to read after he has chatised them for reading blogs.
ReplyDeleteThe really sad thing is that David Huskins another shady Bishop whose doctrinal beliefs include universalism (everybody goes to heaven regardless)told the good followers at CStone to repent of reading blogs. Repent for what? It's not pornography.
Furthermore, this is the year 2010 in the USA not Nazi Germany where Hitler burned all of the books and literature and then printed only what he wanted the people to read and know. If people can't think for themselves, and choose not to read blogs because the good Bishops told them not to, all I can say is WOW. They are definitely easy pickings for a cult mentality and believing anything without searching out a matter for themselves. That is scary.
I do believe God gave us a brain for a reason and it is to think for ourselves and not blindly follow a man or men who give themselves a title and then slam fellow christians because we engage in freedom of speech and thought and choose to disagree with their warped ways.
All it takes for evil to triumph is for people to stand by and do nothing. Oh yea, Michael thinks we're the evil anti ones because we no longer agree with his twisted doctrine and questionable moral character as well as those on his staff.
Keep on posting everyone. We need to speak our peace and proclaim the real truth. And no one here has said we are without sin or have forgotten our own sin - all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We will all sin til' the day we die. We however, don't practice sin or refuse to repent and are not "pastoring" sheep over which we must give account.
The bottom line is that Michael has given much reason for people to mistrust his motives. That is his doing and no one else's. It is sad that those he leads have no compassion for those who have left and are trying to heal from the damage he created by his words and deeds.
Pray that their eyes be enlightened by the power of the Holy Spirit and that those seeking the truth and wanting to leave be set free to do so.